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I don't think it's a "Faction" that represents Order in the 40k Universe. The opposing Gods, I would say, represent Order, such as the Emperor of Mankind, or Khaine.

And then there are those that fit neither, like Gork and Mork, who are Bacon/Necktie morality, or Blue/Orange if you prefer.

Aren't Tau supposed to be immune to chaos? Plus they have an ordered society and are almost the only race that gives warnings and makes treaties. I don't really like Tau, but if any races come close, Tau would be the closest to order.

The Newcrons offer warnings, too, just saying.
And they are also incorruptible.
AND their society is more ordered than the Tau's

Just saying, crons are closer to being an 'order faction' than the Tau.

Careful with the "Immune" word..highly resistant to its lures and taints is what most of the non-tau fans will endure.

But yes Tau actually are terrified by the idea of Chaos..not the whole tentaclely do nasty things to your orifices side..but the breakdown of society and a return to their more primitive days, they call it the "Mont'au"

So they are very ordered and as a race highly adverse to the lure of chaos..but not immune..that word makes people all crazy

And the Immaterium existed before the War in Heaven. It simply hadn't grown to its current extra-bity, extra-rapy state.

And thus time exists in the warp. Except it doesn't. That's what I mean by how nonsensical it is.

I'll posit this:

Chaos is divine in origin so naturally, the polar opposite is Order and therefore if we accept there are diametric opposites, this must also be divine as well.

Mortals interpret the will of the divine through their own narrow and sorely lacking ways. Thus as we have come to understand it, the followers of Chaos attempt to carry out what they believe is the will of their gods. In turn, these gods grant their followers favors and boons in recognition for their loyalty. While not always beneficial, this is a pretty direct relationship.

On the other hand, mortal proponents of Order are not as always crystal clear about what they are fighting for. In the context of the Imperium, the Emperor is heralded as the God representing law and order being imposed on the galaxy. This in and of itself could be flawed as the Emperor himself is not divine, merely one of the most powerful psykers to of ever existed.

Of course, there are hints that divinity representing Order does have influence here but in no recognized name. The Sisters of Battle have power coming from some source, most of it attributed to the Emperor of Mankind, but how can that be? As far as I know, the Emperor of Mankind does not having the ability to grant boons and favors to others. And wasn't his attention tied to direction the Astronomican and preventing Daemons from invading Terra?

The Eldar have a pantheon of gods but their gods do not represent the extremes of Chaos and Order; same with the Orks. Necrons are not imposing order but merely an empire. Tyranids are in their way imposing a form of Order on the universe as a whole by eliminating life and therefore Chaos by eliminating their source of power. But not through divine intent.

So it does go back to it....what is Order? Who represents it? Humanity may be the answer, but it must be accepted as through a tainted prism.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Careful with the "Immune" word..highly resistant to its lures and taints is what most of the non-tau fans will endure.

But yes Tau actually are terrified by the idea of Chaos..not the whole tentaclely do nasty things to your orifices side..but the breakdown of society and a return to their more primitive days, they call it the "Mont'au"

So they are very ordered and as a race highly adverse to the lure of chaos..but not immune..that word makes people all crazy

Ethereals provide the Tau with chaos immunity.

During the Mon'tau, there were no Ethereals, and the Fire Caste were pretty darn Khornate, the Water Caste were fairly Slaaneshi, the Air Caste were downright Tzeentchian and the Earth Caste were pretty nurglitch.

What happens the moment a Tau hero, a paragon of order and the Tau'va strays beyond the reach of the Ethereals? He gets corrupted by Chaos, takes up a daemon weapon and starts teaching his crisis teams how to punch things.

Way to go, Farsight.

Can't say I agree with your generalizations, as to ancient tau social groups, the Future fire caste were plains dwellers and warlike..but not even remotely khornate..unless you think somebody like Lakota Sioux were khorne worshipers

and the other generalities also don't match, they were just city dwellers and merchants, and couriers , which each eventually became the castes, and all were primitive. Like bronze age earth primitive.

And not immune to chaos, just very focused and directed by their culture and society structure.

As to Farsight..who knows, its been established in the Tau fluff that Tau will take on the name and traditions of great warriors, R'ymr has gone through 4 iterations, so farsight might be #5 for all we know, as to his defection...I still say "mindshackle scarabs"

All of this is of course my own opinion. / end disclaimer.

Why would they need mindshackle scarabs? Necrons created the Tau*. :p


*pet theory.

Or heres one for the Tinfoil hat brigade.....Tau are a offshoot of the ancient Flesh necrontyr, kept in a form of "preserve by the old ones...the ethereals were modified by Eldar to direct the Tau in a better direction, and farsight's defection was a recent necron experiment with removal of the Ethereal influence.

There now all the ancient players are involved.

Personally I just think they are the way they are cause that's how they developed...but I removed the tinfoil from my helmet a long time ago.

TiamatRoar wrote:
Only within the realm of Chaos, where there's no such thing as time (which IMHO doesn't make much sense even for Chaos. Time is relative, which means that theretically, there could be a realm where time doesn't exist. However, Chaos interacts with the material realm, therefore time HAS to exist for that interaction to be possible since time has to be relative to it, but... whatever. Crazy fluff writers)

....anyways, in terms of the material realm, the entire warp itself (which predates Chaos. So much for time not existing there) came into being after the war with the Old Ones and the C'Tan broke out, if I recall correctly. IE, AFTER the old ones started creating things wily nily (in fact, creating crap all over the place is what made Chaos exist, not the other way around)

You're attempting to constrain Chaos through the filter of your woefully inadequate mortal perceptions. This is fallacy.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
...and the other generalities also don't match, they were just city dwellers and merchants, and couriers , which each eventually became the castes, and all were primitive. Like bronze age earth primitive.

Not really. They had flint-lock weaponry.

I could Mess with everyone's mind here, and speak the name of the fifth Chaos God.

But I might get Banded from Dakka for doing so... Here's a linky of the one that no one must name...

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malal

It seems Chaos - The Proto-creation can engineer it's own enemies and demise through it's own anarchic and chaotic randomness. Hence Linky above.

Linking into something Else....Maybe ***** owns the Kabal? I would love the Alpha's to be ***** Worshippers.

I think it hands down has to be necrons but then again the tau are pretty ordered aren't they?

Tyranid are the anti chaos, no emotion, no fear nor anger just an instictual need to devour life.

It's pretty obvious what the answer is here.....Squats.

 Flanker wrote:
It's pretty obvious what the answer is here.....Squa

Fix'd.

Chaos is change. When all change ceases there will be order.

Therefore, Order = death.

When everything in the universe is dead, there will be order.

PredaKhaine wrote:
Chaos is change. When all change ceases there will be order.

Therefore, Order = death.

When everything in the universe is dead, there will be order.

There's a change right there.

 Juggalo17 wrote:
Tyranid are the anti chaos, no emotion, no fear nor anger just an instictual need to devour life.

Technically, this can possibly be filed under gluttony. And would thus be the purview of Slaanesh.

Korm wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:
Chaos is change. When all change ceases there will be order.

Therefore, Order = death.

When everything in the universe is dead, there will be order.

There's a change right there.

Yeah - one last change before order occurs.

That being just before the bit with no more changes...

Korm wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:
Chaos is change. When all change ceases there will be order.

Therefore, Order = death.

When everything in the universe is dead, there will be order.

There's a change right there.

 Juggalo17 wrote:
Tyranid are the anti chaos, no emotion, no fear nor anger just an instictual need to devour life.

Technically, this can possibly be filed under gluttony. And would thus be the purview of Slaanesh.

And Slaanesh would die once all sapient life in the galaxy does.

Korm wrote:

 Juggalo17 wrote:
Tyranid are the anti chaos, no emotion, no fear nor anger just an instictual need to devour life.

Technically, this can possibly be filed under gluttony. And would thus be the purview of Slaanesh.

If its instinctual, I don't think so. Gods are powered by emotions, not instinct.

WarOne wrote:Of course, there are hints that divinity representing Order does have influence here but in no recognized name. The Sisters of Battle have power coming from some source, most of it attributed to the Emperor of Mankind, but how can that be?

This really depends on which sources you're looking at. GW's own fluff mentions how the Sisters' "miracles" are merely the result of a religiously indoctrinated population misinterpreting human badassery or plain coincidence as something that can only happen by the hand of their god - a grimdark revision of our real world history. And I have to say, personally I much prefer this approach as well. "My" 40k has no place for true gods and divine magic - the closest you can get is the scientifically palpable phenomenon of the Warp.

As to the topic at hand, I just see it as a clash of ideologies, or ways of life. To me, it does not matter that many (obviously not all!) of the Imperium's laws are motivated by emotions - the only thing that matters is what they achieve: the status quo of Order and Stability, to persist for an eternity with little or no change ... as opposed to the ever-changing nature of Chaos.