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Is it so much a war as a symbiotic relationship? Orks get all the fighting they want and Tyranids get all the food they want.

It's a perfect match for both sides!

 Kain wrote:

 Galdos wrote:
The fluff claims the Orks are being destroyed.

I actually find it funny that fluff tries to say that the battle is up for grabs and then follows it up with the Tyranids have pretty much won every major battle in this campaign, even when outnumbered, and control most of the system.

At least one thing came out of this, the Imperium will be finished with the Ork problem in that area.

And now you have a Tyranid hive fleet that has devoured every world in an entire sector.

Good job there Kryptmann.

Exterminatus. Problem solved.

The Imperium and the Eldar already have a blockade set-up around the planets embroiled in the war. It'll be pretty lulzy when the Imperium sends a couple rofl-torpedos at the planets and instantly annihilates these massive bio-mass collections the Tyranids have been creating.

The Imperium prefers to send Astartes to be heroic and kill the xenos in close combat. Which often results in them all dying but hell, the nuking from a distance thing would be far too sensible!

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Galdos wrote:
The fluff claims the Orks are being destroyed.

I actually find it funny that fluff tries to say that the battle is up for grabs and then follows it up with the Tyranids have pretty much won every major battle in this campaign, even when outnumbered, and control most of the system.

At least one thing came out of this, the Imperium will be finished with the Ork problem in that area.

And now you have a Tyranid hive fleet that has devoured every world in an entire sector.

Good job there Kryptmann.

Exterminatus. Problem solved.

The Imperium and the Eldar already have a blockade set-up around the planets embroiled in the war. It'll be pretty lulzy when the Imperium sends a couple rofl-torpedos at the planets and instantly annihilates these massive bio-mass collections the Tyranids have been creating.

That's a nice plan in theory, except the Tyranids can create an entire fleet really quickly. By the time the Imperium mobilizes, the Tendril will already be tens of thousands of hive ships strong with hundreds of thousands of krakens.

Exterminatus doesn't work against already spacebourne opponents.

Not that quickly...
That would be an insane rate.
You only need one ship to deliver a life eater virus...
I imagine it could be fairly simple to do it as well.
Hell, they could fire it from millions of miles away and let it go in on a ballistic trajectory.

 purplefood wrote:
Not that quickly...
That would be an insane rate.
You only need one ship to deliver a life eater virus...
I imagine it could be fairly simple to do it as well.
Hell, they could fire it from millions of miles away and let it go in on a ballistic trajectory.

And how would the Imperium know it's time before eighty worlds are turned into tens of thousands of capital ships and hundreds of thousands of escorts?

The Tyranids turned a complete loss of ships at Skarfang's planet and restarted the entire hive fleet stronger than ever within days.

Not to mention the Tyranids are already immune to the lifeeater virus.

 Kain wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Not that quickly...
That would be an insane rate.
You only need one ship to deliver a life eater virus...
I imagine it could be fairly simple to do it as well.
Hell, they could fire it from millions of miles away and let it go in on a ballistic trajectory.

And how would the Imperium know it's time before eighty worlds are turned into tens of thousands of capital ships and hundreds of thousands of escorts?

The Tyranids turned a complete loss of ships at Skarfang's planet and restarted the entire hive fleet stronger than ever within days.

Not to mention the Tyranids are already immune to the lifeeater virus.

I thought that the Imperium was frightened that the Nids would adapt to the lifeeater virus if it were ever to be used against them and potentially use said virus against the Galaxy with extreme prejudice.

 King Pariah wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Not that quickly...
That would be an insane rate.
You only need one ship to deliver a life eater virus...
I imagine it could be fairly simple to do it as well.
Hell, they could fire it from millions of miles away and let it go in on a ballistic trajectory.

And how would the Imperium know it's time before eighty worlds are turned into tens of thousands of capital ships and hundreds of thousands of escorts?

The Tyranids turned a complete loss of ships at Skarfang's planet and restarted the entire hive fleet stronger than ever within days.

Not to mention the Tyranids are already immune to the lifeeater virus.

I thought that the Imperium was frightened that the Nids would adapt to the lifeeater virus if it were ever to be used against them and potentially use said virus against the Galaxy with extreme prejudice.

Was that it?

In any case betting that something as slow to react as the Imperium can stop the Tyranids from capitalizing on the gains of even a one world (they've already eaten five) is spurious at best. Because the Imperial fleet is going to have to fight through the much larger hive fleet to enact any form of Exterminatus, and that is a fight they're going to lose.

 purplefood wrote:
Not that quickly...
That would be an insane rate.
You only need one ship to deliver a life eater virus...
I imagine it could be fairly simple to do it as well.
Hell, they could fire it from millions of miles away and let it go in on a ballistic trajectory.

Ya honostly I think the plan is actually a win for the Imperium.

The Orks mass the planet. Tyrnaids eat them, Tyranids are stronger but before the Tyranids move out, World Eater Virus hits or something and demolishes the Tyranids and their ground forces catching the main fleet off guard as they dont expect it.

Ya the Tyranid navy is larger then it started the war but the Orks are destroyed so it is easier for the Imperium to focus on the Tyranids .

As long as the Imperium is expecting this they have time to prepare, the Tyranids dont even need to kill all the Orks for this plan to go into action (in fact it is better if they havnt killed all the Orks just yet and there are still Orks on the ground) When all the Ork reforcements have arrived and right before the last planet falls, the Imperium comes in with a massive fleet and feths the Tyranids hard.

 Galdos wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Not that quickly...
That would be an insane rate.
You only need one ship to deliver a life eater virus...
I imagine it could be fairly simple to do it as well.
Hell, they could fire it from millions of miles away and let it go in on a ballistic trajectory.

Ya honostly I think the plan is actually a win for the Imperium.

The Orks mass the planet. Tyrnaids eat them, Tyranids are stronger but before the Tyranids move out, World Eater Virus hits and demolishes the Tyranids and their ground forces catching the main fleet off guard as they dont expect it.

Ya the Tyranid navy is larger then it started the war but the Orks are destroyed so it is easier for the Imperium to focus on the Tyranids

Would you rather have a threat that only becomes a problem during a waaagh or an even bigger threat that is now too big to be stopped without gutting the defenses of countless worlds and will only grow larger with each defeat the Imperium suffers?

 Kain wrote:

 Galdos wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Not that quickly...
That would be an insane rate.
You only need one ship to deliver a life eater virus...
I imagine it could be fairly simple to do it as well.
Hell, they could fire it from millions of miles away and let it go in on a ballistic trajectory.

Ya honostly I think the plan is actually a win for the Imperium.

The Orks mass the planet. Tyrnaids eat them, Tyranids are stronger but before the Tyranids move out, World Eater Virus hits and demolishes the Tyranids and their ground forces catching the main fleet off guard as they dont expect it.

Ya the Tyranid navy is larger then it started the war but the Orks are destroyed so it is easier for the Imperium to focus on the Tyranids

Would you rather have a threat that only becomes a problem during a waaagh or an even bigger threat that is now too big to be stopped without gutting the defenses of countless worlds and will only grow larger with each defeat the Imperium suffers?

\

I would prefer to fight one massive army allowing me to focus my army against it then against 2 very large armies attack from multiple directions

 Galdos wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Galdos wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Not that quickly...
That would be an insane rate.
You only need one ship to deliver a life eater virus...
I imagine it could be fairly simple to do it as well.
Hell, they could fire it from millions of miles away and let it go in on a ballistic trajectory.

Ya honostly I think the plan is actually a win for the Imperium.

The Orks mass the planet. Tyrnaids eat them, Tyranids are stronger but before the Tyranids move out, World Eater Virus hits and demolishes the Tyranids and their ground forces catching the main fleet off guard as they dont expect it.

Ya the Tyranid navy is larger then it started the war but the Orks are destroyed so it is easier for the Imperium to focus on the Tyranids

Would you rather have a threat that only becomes a problem during a waaagh or an even bigger threat that is now too big to be stopped without gutting the defenses of countless worlds and will only grow larger with each defeat the Imperium suffers?

\

I would prefer to fight one massive army allowing me to focus my army against it then against 2 very large armies attack from multiple directions

Yes but now that one army can't be stopped without leaving multiple sectors vulnerable to enemy attack because you'll need to strip them bare to halt them.

 Kain wrote:


And how would the Imperium know it's time before eighty worlds are turned into tens of thousands of capital ships and hundreds of thousands of escorts?

Because the Imperium (and the Eldar) has a blockade around the system and is actively monitoring the battle.

That's how.

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Kain wrote:


And how would the Imperium know it's time before eighty worlds are turned into tens of thousands of capital ships and hundreds of thousands of escorts?

Because the Imperium (and the Eldar) has a blockade around the system and is actively monitoring the battle.

That's how.

And how would they get past the already massive and bloated hive fleet or ork fleet to enact their exterminatus with their grotesquely outnumbered ships?

Because they already have the system blockaded. There are no masive tyranid and orks fleets in the system.

BlaxicanX wrote:
Because they already have the system blockaded. There are no masive tyranid and orks fleets in the system.

System?

Try an Ultramar sized Sector.

And if they're blockading the sector, they're doing a terrible job at it because more and more Orks are joining the fight from outside.

Cool. Orks trickling into the system through the cracks does nothing to support the assertion that the Tyranid/Ork fleets are so massive that they can prevent the Imperium from commiting exterminatus on Octarius planets.

BlaxicanX wrote:
Cool. Orks trickling into the system through the cracks does nothing to support the assertion that the Tyranid/Ork fleets are so massive that they can prevent the Imperium from commiting exterminatus on Octarius planets.

Try pouring in from all over ultima segmentum. .

The codex notes that devouring Ghorolla was enough to make the Tyranid fleet as big as it was before the Orks smashed it apart with interest and that it was already described as a massive tendril. Given that we know of several other planet that have also fallen, we can surmise that the fleet is multiple times larger than that now.

Ergo, it's too big for the Imperium to face without getting curbstomped in a space battle without gutting multiple sectors.

I don't believe Imperial ships even need to be close to shoot a planet killer missile. it's just more cinematic to show the battlebarge or destroyer barley above the planet. And if all else fails, send in Matt ward. The ultramarines/gray knights will finish the winners off.

No.

If they could,they would have already

Exterminatus requires being allowed to get near the target without being blown up.

 kinratha wrote:
I don't believe Imperial ships even need to be close to shoot a planet killer missile. it's just more cinematic to show the battlebarge or destroyer barley above the planet. And if all else fails, send in Matt ward. The ultramarines/gray knights will finish the winners off.

Exterminatus'ing an already devoured planet is like trying to light ashes on fire.

 Kain wrote:

 kinratha wrote:
I don't believe Imperial ships even need to be close to shoot a planet killer missile. it's just more cinematic to show the battlebarge or destroyer barley above the planet. And if all else fails, send in Matt ward. The ultramarines/gray knights will finish the winners off.

Exterminatus'ing an already devoured planet is like trying to light ashes on fire.

Ashes that have millions of flammable bugs and gasses from digestion pools and capillarity towers. Also there are other weapons ex: Virus bomb.

Again it dose not say anywhere that Exterminotus requires the ships to be close to the planet.

 kinratha wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 kinratha wrote:
I don't believe Imperial ships even need to be close to shoot a planet killer missile. it's just more cinematic to show the battlebarge or destroyer barley above the planet. And if all else fails, send in Matt ward. The ultramarines/gray knights will finish the winners off.

Exterminatus'ing an already devoured planet is like trying to light ashes on fire.

Ashes that have millions of flammable bugs and gasses from digestion pools and capillarity towers. Also there are other weapons ex: Virus bomb.

Again it dose not say anywhere that Exterminotus requires the ships to be close to the planet.

The Imperium get to a devoured planet before the Tyranids are done with it? With how unreliable warp travel is? I say unlikely. They've already failed to do it several times. And given how the Tyranids have already adapted beyond both Uriel and the Blood Raven's trick, I doubt the life eater virus will be effective.

BlaxicanX wrote:

Good job there Kryptmann.

Exterminatus. Problem solved.

The Imperium and the Eldar already have a blockade set-up around the planets embroiled in the war. It'll be pretty lulzy when the Imperium sends a couple rofl-torpedos at the planets and instantly annihilates these massive bio-mass collections the Tyranids have been creating.

First of all there not a single evidence that orks have ever lost a battle, war or a campaing (aka waaagh). Why would orks lose?

Second one of the greatest tacticians of universe (that necron guy, storm -something) can't out smart orks.

Third orks have pilots that can loot enemy aircraft in midair. Draigo might kill Mortarion but can he loot planes in midair? Those things imperial fleet uses to mve around are planes you know.

 Kain wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 kinratha wrote:
I don't believe Imperial ships even need to be close to shoot a planet killer missile. it's just more cinematic to show the battlebarge or destroyer barley above the planet. And if all else fails, send in Matt ward. The ultramarines/gray knights will finish the winners off.

Exterminatus'ing an already devoured planet is like trying to light ashes on fire.

Ashes that have millions of flammable bugs and gasses from digestion pools and capillarity towers. Also there are other weapons ex: Virus bomb.

Again it dose not say anywhere that Exterminotus requires the ships to be close to the planet.

The Imperium get to a devoured planet before the Tyranids are done with it? With how unreliable warp travel is? I say unlikely. They've already failed to do it several times. And given how the Tyranids have already adapted beyond both Uriel and the Blood Raven's trick, I doubt the life eater virus will be effective.

Considering each hive fleet adapts on its own I dough they would be adapted to poisoning the capillary. (Blood Ravens)

Besides all it takes is a distraction by the Eldar and a spearhead attack by the Imperuim then poof, Nidz are in disarray. I'm sure a few battleships will set off there warpdrives like during the ultramarine conflict.

 kinratha wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 kinratha wrote:
I don't believe Imperial ships even need to be close to shoot a planet killer missile. it's just more cinematic to show the battlebarge or destroyer barley above the planet. And if all else fails, send in Matt ward. The ultramarines/gray knights will finish the winners off.

Exterminatus'ing an already devoured planet is like trying to light ashes on fire.

Ashes that have millions of flammable bugs and gasses from digestion pools and capillarity towers. Also there are other weapons ex: Virus bomb.

Again it dose not say anywhere that Exterminotus requires the ships to be close to the planet.

The Imperium get to a devoured planet before the Tyranids are done with it? With how unreliable warp travel is? I say unlikely. They've already failed to do it several times. And given how the Tyranids have already adapted beyond both Uriel and the Blood Raven's trick, I doubt the life eater virus will be effective.

Considering each hive fleet adapts on its own I dough they would be adapted to poisoning the capillary. (Blood Ravens)

Besides all it takes is a distraction by the Eldar and a spearhead attack by the Imperuim then poof, Nidz are in disarray. I'm sure a few battleships will set off there warpdrives like during the ultramarine conflict.

Both Ventris' trick and the Blood Raven's trick were tried on Hive Fleet Leviathan.

And the Eldar cooperate with the Mon'Keigh?

The Eldar couldn't trust the Blood Ravens to properly defend their own subsector.

And note that the Dominus Astra trick has never been repeated, ever.

And the Eldar did try to fight the Nids in space, if I remember, the battle of Iyanden was only won by Prince Yriel pulling a Deus Ex Machina.

And at Maccragge? Were it not for the Dominus Astra going kamikaze they would have lost there too.

You're a little too hopeful, this is the "time of ending" any hope of victory on any front is gone. Now all you can do is have a good death.

 Galdos wrote:
The fluff claims the Orks are being destroyed.

I actually find it funny that fluff tries to say that the battle is up for grabs and then follows it up with the Tyranids have pretty much won every major battle in this campaign, even when outnumbered, and control most of the system.

Actually, it says that, presently, nobody is winning. The Orks lost a few worlds, but in these cases they were either outnumbered or collapsed due to infighting. But now that the 'Nids are going for the Ork capital world, they've been stopped in their tracks. These Orks are well led, numerous and constantly recieving reinforcements.

So, as it stands, it pretty much is "up for grabs".

Both Ventris' trick and the Blood Raven's trick were tried on Hive Fleet Leviathan.

Proof?

And the Eldar cooperate with the Mon'Keigh?

Its happened before.

The Eldar couldn't trust the Blood Ravens to properly defend their own subsector.

The Eldar were trying the recover there Soul Stones from a space craft burred in the planet, I don't think they owned that subsector at all. after all it was in imperial control. (for a wile)

And note that the Dominus Astra trick has never been repeated, ever.

It can happen again.

And the Eldar did try to fight the Nids in space, if I remember, the battle of Iyanden was only won by Prince Yriel pulling a Deus Ex Machina.

Its in the Nidz dex, It was a craft world that was attacked. The Eldar were on the defensive the whole time. Eldar excel at attacking, not defending.

And at Maccragge? Were it not for the Dominus Astra going kamikaze they would have lost there too.

Sure, and it can happen again, why wouldn't it?


Ok, i'm going to dinner and ill be back in about a hour or so, If I dont get any wi-fi, we can continue this later.
Edit: quotes

Do people seriously believe Games Workshop will allow the Tyrannids to devour the Imperium? When it all boils down to it in some magical world where GW decides to advance the plot, I'm sure some fluff writer will come up with some nigh dues ex machina or artifact or whatever else to stop the Tyrannids. ...if only temporarily, so the status quo can be maintained. Worse comes to worse, they could just do what they did in Imperial Armour 12 and have another faction jump in to stop the threat (like how the Mynarkh Necrons' advance was stopped by Chaos of all things. Go go status quo!

That said, if the plot hypothetically did advance, most GW authors would probably go with the Tyrannids winning the Octarius war. Not because of any made up logistics and numbers on who should win, but because the Tyrannids are new and meant to advance on the Imperium as a threat, whereas Orks are old and status quo and nothing would change if they won the war.

....that also said, if they didn't want the overall plot to advance but wanted to write and advance a conclusion to the war, they'd have the orks win it for those exact same reasons.

More on topic, look at what I found.



Dat fan art.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kinratha wrote:
*snip*

The Eldar couldn't trust the Blood Ravens to defend *their* (as in the Blood Raven's) own recruiting worlds. Why would they trust stinky humans to do the job properly?

And throughout the Tyranids Codex, with the exception of Maugan Ra, the Eldar keep on suffering colossal casualties against the Tyranids. They even somehow let a Tyranid sneak onto Malan'Tai, dooming the entire craftworld. Oops.

Also, at Tarsis Ultra; the Hive Fleet attacking was a pincer tendril of hive fleet leviathan.

In Dawn of War II, the attacking Hive Fleet is sporting Leviathan's color, your attempt at denying this discredits your already spurious argument. Try harder.