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The pay in sociology is awful. You will only make good money if you can do something that few others can do well. Sociology is like an uppity version of psychology, only sociologists are typically not well versed in neuro- and cognitive sciences, and the statistics are often poorly executed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hotsauceman1 wrote: I know that feeling,I'm going toward my degree in sociology with hopes to become a teacher. You could also become an organizational sociologist, guys that go into to companies and re-arrange things, like staff. they make 200,000 a year. The best bet, dont study something you hate. but you can find something promising even with sociology, trust me.
No offense, but somebody has been lying to you. The mean salary for sociologists is definitely not $200,000/yr. Try more like $70,000/yr if you have a PhD, and more like ~$50,000/yr without it.
Do you consider $70,000 a year awful? I realize that that's with a PhD, but still.
My family (3 siblings, 2 parents, and me) live off of much less than 70k a year, so it seems like a good salary to me.
~Tim?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/04 19:53:26
The pay in sociology is awful. You will only make good money if you can do something that few others can do well. Sociology is like an uppity version of psychology, only sociologists are typically not well versed in neuro- and cognitive sciences, and the statistics are often poorly executed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hotsauceman1 wrote: I know that feeling,I'm going toward my degree in sociology with hopes to become a teacher. You could also become an organizational sociologist, guys that go into to companies and re-arrange things, like staff. they make 200,000 a year. The best bet, dont study something you hate. but you can find something promising even with sociology, trust me.
No offense, but somebody has been lying to you. The mean salary for sociologists is definitely not $200,000/yr. Try more like $70,000/yr if you have a PhD, and more like ~$50,000/yr without it.
Do you consider $70,000 a year awful? I realize that that's with a PhD, but still.
$70,000 a year w/ PhD is what my mother got for most of her carreer as a curator. In ''Liberal Arts'' professions, it's pretty good. At University level, you get a much better pay, but then you'll likely have to toil like a slave as a corrector/lecturer a few years before getting there.
O-T ; Cheesecat, don't worry too much about it. Sociology is still more hopeful than anthropology. The important part if going into a degree knowing that you'll do something with it. My Philosopĥy BA was packed full with people who ''took philosophy for it's own sake, and knew they won't work in it'', as if there was something dirty with turning ''Humanities'' into a for-profit endeavour. Almost to the number, they were those that quit before finishing.
Study seriously, and take the 3-5 years you have in front of you to scout for potential applications. Humanities are great in that, if all else fails, you can write.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/04 22:04:11
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
My mother has been suggesting that I get a social work degree as it does apply some sociological concepts but I don't know if this is the best idea as it would seem that the career path would be really specific.
Cheesecat wrote: My mother has been suggesting that I get a social work degree as it does apply some sociological concepts but I don't know if this is the best idea as it would seem that the career path would be really specific.
I've dated a social worker, as well as lived with a roomate who also did that. In both cases there were untold amounts of drama.
Now, here in Québec, you can become a social worker with either a BA or a technical, and one is going to give you better odds than the other (I don't remember which one). So, if that's also how it works were you live, you might want to look for all the alternatives.
Also, I imagine this is valid for just about every field and university, but the curriculum for Humanities changes a lot from one university to the other. In UQAM, for exemple, the sociology departement really does social philosophy rather than full-fledged sociology. So the best is to inquire in advance, and asks about which teachers are big in the field and where they teach.
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
having a concrete job in mind is good, my step father is a social worker, its good pay and benefits, and when you get older not manual labour.
its also a fairly broad area, you can do social work with lots of different types of people, in different ways.
likely one of the few real jobs related to the degree, most people I know with BA's just use it as a filler for the "any form of post secondary" requirement on jobs, unless they are going into law or something.
Kovnik Obama wrote: Humanities are great in that, if all else fails, you can write.
anyone can write, takes talent to make $ off of it, and that cant be taught, or at least if you need university education to get the mechanics of spelling/grammar down, its likely not even a valid plan B.
just have a trade/skill as a fall back, even if you just do trucking/painting/carpentry/whatever in the summer to pay for school.
if you do decide to stay in school, get good grades, but your connections and personality will be far more important in getting you a job, so volunteer at places you would like a real job at, or places similar in nature.
And no again. Essay writing is a lot more about structure and argumentation than about grammar. University level logic classes, as well as 3 to 5 years of practice, are great boons.
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
When was the last time you paid to read someones essay? (BTW your essay of "NO NO NO" is very compelling, do I owe you $ for that?)
People pay for articles/books/magazines, and thats where the majority of "writing" jobs are, most have their own specific training outside of the generic "insert any post 2ndary education here" type that a BA would fill.
"university level logic classes" are you trying to be condescending like I have never been to post 2ndary?
may as well call them university level common sense courses, you can teach people to pass those tests, but that doesnt guarantee they learn anything of use.
plenty of idiots pass those courses, and far too many people graduate university with their only skill being that they can pass tests and write essays.
Being good at writing essays for your professor isnt a high demand skill, nor is it one restricted to the humanities. Employers might see that as a soft skill, nice to have, but it is hardly unique or hard to find.
To the OP, take my advice for what it is worth. I started off dirt poor, , paid my own way, took the time to learn any real world skills from anyone who would teach me, simply doing everything to the best of my ability every time so that people knew thats how I did things, then I started a profitable business, sold it, got a job with one of the largest companies in canada. Eventually landing my dream job higher up in that company, where I earn 60k+ a year for less then 40 hours of work, which I can literally do from home if I choose, and im not even capped on the pay scale.
I am not even 30, and I have 0 debt, a paid off vehicle, and have paid off a mortgage already.
I only warn you to really realise the implications of spending 4 years, and $50,000 (or whatever your actually amount is) on this degree. Because I know far too many people who were pressured into post 2ndary when they were unsure about what they even intended to do with their 4 year, 50,000$+ degree, and ended up with unmanageable debt, and no job at the end of it.
Being unsure about it, when you are already committed to doing it, just sounds odd. Why do something, and then make your mind up about it?
You are young, taking a year off to work, save up money, and find out what you actually want to do if you are unsure.
Sociology will be there waiting when you get back if you come full circle and decide its right for you,
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2013/07/04 23:12:31
When was the last time you paid to read someones essay?
Generally, every single time I've had to go beyond a paywall. Specifically, about 2 months ago.
People pay for articles/books/magazines, and thats where the majority of "writing" jobs are, most have their own specific training outside of the generic "insert any post 2ndary education here" type that a BA would fill.
If we are talking about writing for Maxims, yeah, you have a point. If we're talking about an editing job, or a journal for a specific field, then no, you'll be required to have a BA.
"university level logic classes" are you trying to be condescending like I have never been to post 2ndary?
What, why would you think that? Propositional logic is simply great for analyzing texts, and enough training in it will help you spots faulty arguments a mile away.
may as well call them university level common sense courses,
Generally speaking, people do terribly in logic classes, so it'd be a stretch to call it common sense.
you can teach people to pass those tests, but that doesnt guarantee they learn anything of use. plenty of idiots pass those courses, and far too many people graduate university with their only skill being that they can pass tests and write essays.
And when is that not the case? In every field you'll find those that excels at passing tests but are unable to actually use the material they've learned.
Being good at writing essays for your professor isnt a high demand skill, nor is it one restricted to the humanities. In engineering, I had to write plenty of essays, so what? Employers might see that as a soft skill, nice to have, but it is hardly unique or hard to find.
It is, unless its the main skill demanded, which is what I was suggesting to Cheesecat to go for. Despite your opinion, there are still editing jobs out there, there are still field-specific journals being published, and writing is still a marketable skill.
Also, thank you for making clear that your opinion and experience is absolutely unrelated to Humanities or writing in general.
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
its not just the "sociologists" who get those kinds of jobs... every single tom dick or harry with a BA, of any major, wants those soft jobs when they realize that their job opportunities are not so hot.
My friend works as an editor for the government, with his psych degree.
He also hates it, its the most boring job in the world reading other peoples work, usually on boring topics, and checking for errors... he also doesn't make much $ compared to what he had to invest in his education.
easysauce wrote: its not just the "sociologists" who get those kinds of jobs... every single tom dick or harry with a BA, of any major, wants those soft jobs when they realize that their job opportunities are not so hot.
Again, field-specific journals exists. Having a BA in engineering serves no purpose whatsoever when writing for a sociology journal. You can also do field-specific research for institutes, museums and universities.
My friend works as an editor for the government, with his psych degree.
Psychology is currently the worse field you can do a study in for placement.
He also hates it, its the most boring job in the world reading other peoples work, usually on boring topics, and checking for errors...
Okay, so... Who cares? I mean, obviously, not everyone is going to enjoy the same job.
he also doesn't make much $ compared to what he had to invest in his education.
Well, if he works for the governement, I imagine its at least in the $45,000 ball-park without any tenure. Enough to start paying back his loans and up his living standards in comparison to what it was during his student life. The benefits of governement work gradually kicks in, and are fething wondrous when you have them. Of course, its no cure for hating your job, but that's his problem.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/04 23:57:48
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
Everyone is posting about pay write now, not so much the real problem. Jobs. I don't know about sociology, but with history the job field is extremely limited. So of course that is my favourite subject. Don't let that stop you from doing what you want to do though, it doesn't stop me.
VensersRevenge wrote: Everyone is posting about pay write now, not so much the real problem. Jobs. I don't know about sociology, but with history the job field is extremely limited. So of course that is my favourite subject. Don't let that stop you from doing what you want to do though, it doesn't stop me.
Best advice, life would be misrable if you hate what you studied
VensersRevenge wrote: Everyone is posting about pay write now, not so much the real problem. Jobs. I don't know about sociology, but with history the job field is extremely limited. So of course that is my favourite subject. Don't let that stop you from doing what you want to do though, it doesn't stop me.
Best advice, life would be misrable if you hate what you studied
Another thing you could do is try a variety of different courses for your first few semesters. Some universities require you to take a certain amount of electives to graduate (which is why I spent the last two months learning all about bonobo genitals), so you can take that time to fill out your electives, while taking the time to figure out what you're really into.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/05 02:14:09
Fafnir wrote: Another thing you could do is try a variety of different courses for your first few semesters. Some universities require you to take a certain amount of electives to graduate (which is why I spent the last two months learning all about bonobo genitals), so you can take that time to fill out your electives, while taking the time to figure out what you're really into.
This is a BAD idea. Electives can tie into your degree, like my electives where all things that furthered what i needed.
Well, I took a lot of electives that related heavily to my degree, but because of the system my university had in place, I also had to take a bunch that had absolutely no relation (seriously, I would have killed to take more art courses, but because of the way the elective requirements were set up, I couldn't).
I guess it depends on the elective requirements for your university. As a fine arts major, I was essentially forced out of arts classes in order to take a bunch of other random ones (primatology... ugh...).
I believe the awful term is "General Liberal Education Requirement," or "GLER."
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/05 02:21:34
. Uni is not about a career. This is a common misconception with all the masses now attending uni. The purpose of going to uni is twofold: It is about learning how to learn, and getting an education. It is not about your future career.
Second, it sounds to me like if your most important goal is not education but to
Cheesecat wrote: live a comfortable middle class lifestyle at some point in my life (like $50,000 a year give or take).
I'd recommend going to a trade school or technical school, where you can learn something that will help build your career.
Again, if the goal of you going to uni is education, it really doesn't matter what you take. First year take a broad variety of classes in subjects that are of interest to you. That way, when second year comes around and you think that your original major is not right, you can easily switch without losing any time.
As for career path, don't worry about that too much right now if you want the education. If a career and a comfortable middle class lifestyle is more important to you I'd suggest again learning a trade and starting career there.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/05 02:58:29
anyone can write, takes talent to make $ off of it, and that cant be taught, or at least if you need university education to get the mechanics of spelling/grammar down, its likely not even a valid plan B.
I have a bit of a problem with this.
Yes, anyone can tippity-tap away at a keyboard, but very few people can actually tippity-tap something coherent. The average level of writing competency among university students is horrific. Most people in school and in the job market are fething awful writers. So, not just anyone can write.
The silver-lining here is that you don't need talent to make money off of writing, you just need to actually be able to do it well! And that can, in fact, be taught.
The problem is that it should be taught in goddamn high school, not freshman comp. courses. If you can't write a basic argumentative essay, you shouldn't be in college, yet your average college freshman writes like a barely literate sixth-grader and doesn't graduate greatly improved, either.
anyone can write, takes talent to make $ off of it, and that cant be taught, or at least if you need university education to get the mechanics of spelling/grammar down, its likely not even a valid plan B.
I have a bit of a problem with this.
Yes, anyone can tippity-tap away at a keyboard, but very few people can actually tippity-tap something coherent. The average level of writing competency among university students is horrific. Most people in school and in the job market are fething awful writers. So, not just anyone can write.
The silver-lining here is that you don't need talent to make money off of writing, you just need to actually be able to do it well! And that can, in fact, be taught.
The problem is that it should be taught in goddamn high school, not freshman comp. courses. If you can't write a basic argumentative essay, you shouldn't be in college, yet your average college freshman writes like a barely literate sixth-grader and doesn't graduate greatly improved, either.
Y'all need to listen to Rubiksnoob now. I mean, he's so fething good, his horticulture blog reads like a freaking Ludlum's thriller!
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
I majored in liberal arts, history to be exact. If I had it to do over again, I would've majored in pretty much anything else, but specifically computer science or business. Or I would've gotten a BS in an in-demand field.
Now, I've lucked into very good money despite my degree, but they also didn't hire me for the BA, they hired me for my past experience and contacts with the military. A BA doesn't mean much anymore.
My wife and I...draw down a little over 10K a month after taxes.....that's a lot of
I'm dead serious to.
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Seaward wrote: I majored in liberal arts, history to be exact. If I had it to do over again, I would've majored in pretty much anything else, but specifically computer science or business. Or I would've gotten a BS in an in-demand field.
Now, I've lucked into very good money despite my degree, but they also didn't hire me for the BA, they hired me for my past experience and contacts with the military. A BA doesn't mean much anymore.
My cousin in law have a degree in spanish, i still not sure how she got a job helping special needs children.
Barksdale wrote:Uni is not about a career. This is a common misconception with all the masses now attending uni. The purpose of going to uni is twofold: It is about learning how to learn, and getting an education. It is not about your future career.
Yes and no. University does fill a social position in that helps ease kids into real life these days. And it is often about transferable skills. However at the same time, one needs to be able to pay the bills when one leaves. Otherwise one ends up eating out of tins of beans on the street, or being forced to sponge off of parents (something which does nothing for the self esteem and independence of a 21/22 year old).
VensersRevenge wrote:Everyone is posting about pay write now, not so much the real problem. Jobs. I don't know about sociology, but with history the job field is extremely limited. So of course that is my favourite subject. Don't let that stop you from doing what you want to do though, it doesn't stop me.
This is also a bit of a yes and no.
On one hand, you should never choose to do something you don't enjoy purely for the money. Happiness is ultimately worth far more to you than even the largest paycheque is worth. Money and happiness are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but if you're a person who reacts badly to stress and has poor people skills, don't try and major in business with the ambition of being a corporate high flier.
Spoiler:
At the same time though, you should be aware of your prospects upon leaving University and take that into account when choosing your course and institute. There are roughly 125 Universities in the UK at the moment. But if you want to even have the slightest shot of a career in anything humanities/social sciences based, you need to be in the top 50. Having even a 1st in Philosophy from a University ranked in the nineties is no more than a worthless scrap of paper when it comes to the job market. And even being in the top 50 doesn't guarantee you a job. If you majored in history, sociology, psychology, and so on, being in the top 50 just gives you a chance. If you're fortunate enough to go to one of the top fifteen or so, your odds are infinitely better than if you just went to the top 40.
The fact is that it is simply the case that there are far more graduates seeking generic 'graduate jobs' or career paths like 'journalism' than there are places available to accommodate them. To the tune of roughly 5 graduates to every graduate job. As a result of this, your application just gets dropped straight in the bin if you did Philosophy at London South Bank University. Once all but graduates of the top 50 are excluded, it gets cut down to roughly two to three graduates for each job per year, but then you have to contend against the pool of graduates who were unsuccessful the last few years and are applying again.
TL;DR, You need to be aware of your career chances, and ensure you are capable of earning a living. The fact remains that the world doesn't owe you a living, and pleading that you went to University for the life experience won't cut any ice when the time comes to repay your debts and pay the rent. So whilst you shouldn't do something you're unhappy with, you need to be realistic. Or you'll have your three years of drinking, and then walk into a life job at Walmart.
anyone can write, takes talent to make $ off of it, and that cant be taught, or at least if you need university education to get the mechanics of spelling/grammar down, its likely not even a valid plan B.
I have a bit of a problem with this.
Yes, anyone can tippity-tap away at a keyboard, but very few people can actually tippity-tap something coherent. The average level of writing competency among university students is horrific. Most people in school and in the job market are fething awful writers. So, not just anyone can write.either.
This. Anyone can write, but that doesn't mean that anyone can write. In the same way that anyone can strum a guitar chord, but that doesn't make them a musician.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/05 08:51:29
Hotsauceman, I have a question. Why on earth are you doing sociology instead of an education degree to become a teacher? Or is Australia backwards like that where you are expected to have an education degree to do teaching.
Or is sociology ridiculously giant catch all course over there?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/05 09:46:13
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
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