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Questions: I didnt think you could cast blessings on units coming in from reserve as the rule only states you can choose the order of the dice roll to determine which units come in, and/or cast, but actually moving them on to the table is in the movement phase which is after the casting phase. <ponder>
Also, I didnt realize the WK is a character (issued a challenge)... I thought it wasnt, that only the WL was a character...

 hyv3mynd wrote:
A couple cannon shots are not worth putting your whole army in danger. You had range and mobility and going second to see how he deployed. Your skimmers can move 12" and fire two weapons at full bs. That's a mistake that could cost the whole game.

Didn't matter. He would've been on me no matter how far back I deployed, especially the way he was making his saves. He already gave me an extra turn to shoot at his wraiths by going after my guardians instead of my serpents.

Moridan wrote:
Questions: I didnt think you could cast blessings on units coming in from reserve as the rule only states you can choose the order of the dice roll to determine which units come in, and/or cast, but actually moving them on to the table is in the movement phase which is after the casting phase. <ponder>
Also, I didnt realize the WK is a character (issued a challenge)... I thought it wasnt, that only the WL was a character...

Yes you can. Reserve rolls are done at the beginning of the turn and then reserves come in at the beginning of the Movement phase. Maledictions and Blessings actually occur at the beginning of the Movement phase. The recent BRB FAQ then lets you pick the order of which you want to do first. The only exception is that a unit that just came in from reserves cannot cast the psychic powers that needs to be cast at the beginning of Movement. However, a psyker already on the table could cast it on a recently arrived reserve unit.

As for the WK, you are right. I made a mistake. He is not a character. Still wouldn't have changed his fate though.

Lists like these provoke such bad play. When armies are min maxed and spammed to a high degree players seem to just flip on auto pilot for their armies and never really plan their turns well. Then to compound matters, when they make an error, they multiply it X times do to the nature of their list. I feel like in this match its mostly due to both players unfamiliarity with the armies they are using however.

I see several sloppy errors already by turn 2 from deployment on. This just seems like Yahtzee at the moment. I hope one of you guys pulls some stops out soon. It's still early in the game, at least both sides have made mistakes so it seems neck and neck still. SabreX is winning at Yahtzee so far though.

Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

To be concluded....

Is the Wraithknight a character? Or did I misunderstood it when you said it issued a challenge.

wighti wrote:
Is the Wraithknight a character? Or did I misunderstood it when you said it issued a challenge.

It was my mistake. I thought he was a character.

Deployment Review (this is all just my own opinion and take as a Monday morning QB so please take this review as friendly critizism)

Necrons:

Should have deployed tighter considering the eldar have no template weapons anyway. This does two things, gets more wraith bodies closer to space elves but more importantly gets his AB's MUCH closer so that on turn 1 he doesn't need to move over 6" and can fire at full BS on the eldar tanks. Which takes us to....

Eldar:

Going second means you can counter deploy. Elves should have done this, all 5 WS deploy as far back as possible and as much toward one flank as possible. Hopefully taking one AB out of the fight for 2 turns. Wraith knight deploys at the top of the zone front and center to provoke poor play from the Necrons, instigating AB fire his way if they take the bait, other wise he pops barges and waits to flank charge the unit of wraiths that heads passed him for the WS first, thus "corking" the path and tying them up.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

As for jy2's deployment, your wraiths running 5-6" only illustrates why he shouldn't have deployed where he had. Honestly, this is why you need to know when to use the "dong" canon and when not too. Its another 15 s6 shots when you need it, but you shouldn't sacrifice unit safety to get those shots early on.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

Sacrificing a whole unit of Wraiths + Warlord on bottom of turn 2 to kill off a couple of Wave Serpents isn't a good idea in the long run. Guardians aren't that far from the objectives and could easily reach it. By then, I would have had one full strength Wraith unit, 1 Destroyer Lord, 1 depleted Wraith unit left, which would have been stuck in combat with the Wraith Knight. They definitely aren't enough to combat Jy2's remaining troops and Warp Spyders. I need my Destroyer Lords to tank those shots and leave the tank hunting to the Night Scythes and Barges.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Deployment Review (this is all just my own opinion and take as a Monday morning QB so please take this review as friendly critizism)

Necrons:

Should have deployed tighter considering the eldar have no template weapons anyway. This does two things, gets more wraith bodies closer to space elves but more importantly gets his AB's MUCH closer so that on turn 1 he doesn't need to move over 6" and can fire at full BS on the eldar tanks. Which takes us to....

Eldar:

Going second means you can counter deploy. Elves should have done this, all 5 WS deploy as far back as possible and as much toward one flank as possible. Hopefully taking one AB out of the fight for 2 turns. Wraith knight deploys at the top of the zone front and center to provoke poor play from the Necrons, instigating AB fire his way if they take the bait, other wise he pops barges and waits to flank charge the unit of wraiths that heads passed him for the WS first, thus "corking" the path and tying them up.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

As for jy2's deployment, your wraiths running 5-6" only illustrates why he shouldn't have deployed where he had. Honestly, this is why you need to know when to use the "dong" canon and when not too. Its another 15 s6 shots when you need it, but you shouldn't sacrifice unit safety to get those shots early on.

This.

Hammer/anvil, night fight, second turn. Eldar had everything they needed to make this "auto-win". Even enoug range and space for serpents to be out of range of arriving flyers. They can kite wraiths for two turns and apply the WK as a speedbump when the time is right.

It also shows the weakness of such a spammy list with only a WK for counter assault.

This game was a gift to the necrons.

Moridan wrote:
Questions: I didnt think you could cast blessings on units coming in from reserve as the rule only states you can choose the order of the dice roll to determine which units come in, and/or cast, but actually moving them on to the table is in the movement phase which is after the casting phase. <ponder>
Also, I didnt realize the WK is a character (issued a challenge)... I thought it wasnt, that only the WL was a character...

Yes you can. Reserve rolls are done at the beginning of the turn and then reserves come in at the beginning of the Movement phase. Maledictions and Blessings actually occur at the beginning of the Movement phase. The recent BRB FAQ then lets you pick the order of which you want to do first. The only exception is that a unit that just came in from reserves cannot cast the psychic powers that needs to be cast at the beginning of Movement. However, a psyker already on the table could cast it on a recently arrived reserve unit.

As for the WK, you are right. I made a mistake. He is not a character. Still wouldn't have changed his fate though.

 SabrX wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

Sacrificing a whole unit of Wraiths + Warlord on bottom of turn 2 to kill off a couple of Wave Serpents isn't a good idea in the long run. Guardians aren't that far from the objectives and could easily reach it. By then, I would have had one full strength Wraith unit, 1 Destroyer Lord, 1 depleted Wraith unit left, which would have been stuck in combat with the Wraith Knight. They definitely aren't enough to combat Jy2's remaining troops and Warp Spyders. I need my Destroyer Lords to tank those shots and leave the tank hunting to the Night Scythes and Barges.

+1 for accurate tactics, you should play necrons more!!

 hyv3mynd wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Deployment Review (this is all just my own opinion and take as a Monday morning QB so please take this review as friendly critizism)

Necrons:

Should have deployed tighter considering the eldar have no template weapons anyway. This does two things, gets more wraith bodies closer to space elves but more importantly gets his AB's MUCH closer so that on turn 1 he doesn't need to move over 6" and can fire at full BS on the eldar tanks. Which takes us to....

Eldar:

Going second means you can counter deploy. Elves should have done this, all 5 WS deploy as far back as possible and as much toward one flank as possible. Hopefully taking one AB out of the fight for 2 turns. Wraith knight deploys at the top of the zone front and center to provoke poor play from the Necrons, instigating AB fire his way if they take the bait, other wise he pops barges and waits to flank charge the unit of wraiths that heads passed him for the WS first, thus "corking" the path and tying them up.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

As for jy2's deployment, your wraiths running 5-6" only illustrates why he shouldn't have deployed where he had. Honestly, this is why you need to know when to use the "dong" canon and when not too. Its another 15 s6 shots when you need it, but you shouldn't sacrifice unit safety to get those shots early on.

This.

Hammer/anvil, night fight, second turn. Eldar had everything they needed to make this "auto-win". Even enoug range and space for serpents to be out of range of arriving flyers. They can kite wraiths for two turns and apply the WK as a speedbump when the time is right.

It also shows the weakness of such a spammy list with only a WK for counter assault.

This game was a gift to the necrons.

Again, this.

Better deployment would have denied the barges and the flyers their first turn of shooting, starving the Necrons of first blood and giving the Eldar much more dakka to throw around.

The Crons got some lucky dice but the Eldar made so many noob mistakes that better roles would not have compensated.

I really hope you guys redo this game, this had the potential to be such an epic rep.

 hyv3mynd wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Deployment Review (this is all just my own opinion and take as a Monday morning QB so please take this review as friendly critizism)

Necrons:

Should have deployed tighter considering the eldar have no template weapons anyway. This does two things, gets more wraith bodies closer to space elves but more importantly gets his AB's MUCH closer so that on turn 1 he doesn't need to move over 6" and can fire at full BS on the eldar tanks. Which takes us to....

Eldar:

Going second means you can counter deploy. Elves should have done this, all 5 WS deploy as far back as possible and as much toward one flank as possible. Hopefully taking one AB out of the fight for 2 turns. Wraith knight deploys at the top of the zone front and center to provoke poor play from the Necrons, instigating AB fire his way if they take the bait, other wise he pops barges and waits to flank charge the unit of wraiths that heads passed him for the WS first, thus "corking" the path and tying them up.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

As for jy2's deployment, your wraiths running 5-6" only illustrates why he shouldn't have deployed where he had. Honestly, this is why you need to know when to use the "dong" canon and when not too. Its another 15 s6 shots when you need it, but you shouldn't sacrifice unit safety to get those shots early on.

This.

Hammer/anvil, night fight, second turn. Eldar had everything they needed to make this "auto-win". Even enoug range and space for serpents to be out of range of arriving flyers. They can kite wraiths for two turns and apply the WK as a speedbump when the time is right.

It also shows the weakness of such a spammy list with only a WK for counter assault.

This game was a gift to the necrons.

I disagree that the list was a gift to the Necrons, i see a ton of mistakes on eldar side at the start:

Why the hell would you want Warpspiders in reserve, they are very fast and capable of firing turn one, you need them on the table to maximize threats and Volume of Fire.
The seer should stay with them for guide and presience, be sure some are going to doubt very hard on what to attack or shoot at and there are no good choices.
Wraiths can be speedshot by guardians, when they come to close, get them out and optimize fire and serpent shots, its a lot of shots, you might be able to almose wipe out the units.
I still think that the Wraithknight needs a suncannon and 5++ to get the most out of him.

my 2 cents, trying to be constructive, altough these are some hars points to take and as always the critics are easier afterwards.

I have to agree with the criticism of jy2's deployment, but hes a hustler and I wouldnt write off the space elves yet.
This is probably the point at which jy2 gets his wallet out and says "shall we make things interesting".

Laughing God doesn't give EW and Farseers don't have it, right? So shouldn't a Wraith insta-gib a farseer?

edit: Jetbike. NM.

Good report, but I'll jump on the deployment bandwagon. Use your mobility!

 jy2 wrote:

 hyv3mynd wrote:
A couple cannon shots are not worth putting your whole army in danger. You had range and mobility and going second to see how he deployed. Your skimmers can move 12" and fire two weapons at full bs. That's a mistake that could cost the whole game.

Didn't matter. He would've been on me no matter how far back I deployed, especially the way he was making his saves. He already gave me an extra turn to shoot at his wraiths by going after my guardians instead of my serpents.

Moridan wrote:
Questions: I didnt think you could cast blessings on units coming in from reserve as the rule only states you can choose the order of the dice roll to determine which units come in, and/or cast, but actually moving them on to the table is in the movement phase which is after the casting phase. <ponder>
Also, I didnt realize the WK is a character (issued a challenge)... I thought it wasnt, that only the WL was a character...

Yes you can. Reserve rolls are done at the beginning of the turn and then reserves come in at the beginning of the Movement phase. Maledictions and Blessings actually occur at the beginning of the Movement phase. The recent BRB FAQ then lets you pick the order of which you want to do first. The only exception is that a unit that just came in from reserves cannot cast the psychic powers that needs to be cast at the beginning of Movement. However, a psyker already on the table could cast it on a recently arrived reserve unit.

As for the WK, you are right. I made a mistake. He is not a character. Still wouldn't have changed his fate though.

The WK isn't a character, but since this list isn't making any use of Runes of Battle you can easily change to use the Iyanden supplement. That would let you choose the WK as your Warlord (still in Heavy), which against some armies is incredibly useful, Chaos in particular just cry because all their expensive characters can't refuse challenges.

And sadly you still can't case Blessings and Maledictions on units that arrive from reserves. Note that the FAQ lets you ROLL for reserves before casting psychic powers, but since you roll and THEN move onto the board (as in its two distinct steps) it doesn't work as you suggest. Yet another reason why Deep Striking Spiders is a very very situational tactic (they are doing most of your damage and would have been well within range turn 1 after that Wraith zerg). To beat Wraithwing you have to be able to deal with 2 out of the 3 elements (Wraiths/Barges/Scythes), and at the moment you are struggling to deal with even a single element

Powerguy wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 hyv3mynd wrote:
A couple cannon shots are not worth putting your whole army in danger. You had range and mobility and going second to see how he deployed. Your skimmers can move 12" and fire two weapons at full bs. That's a mistake that could cost the whole game.

Didn't matter. He would've been on me no matter how far back I deployed, especially the way he was making his saves. He already gave me an extra turn to shoot at his wraiths by going after my guardians instead of my serpents.

Moridan wrote:
Questions: I didnt think you could cast blessings on units coming in from reserve as the rule only states you can choose the order of the dice roll to determine which units come in, and/or cast, but actually moving them on to the table is in the movement phase which is after the casting phase. <ponder>
Also, I didnt realize the WK is a character (issued a challenge)... I thought it wasnt, that only the WL was a character...

Yes you can. Reserve rolls are done at the beginning of the turn and then reserves come in at the beginning of the Movement phase. Maledictions and Blessings actually occur at the beginning of the Movement phase. The recent BRB FAQ then lets you pick the order of which you want to do first. The only exception is that a unit that just came in from reserves cannot cast the psychic powers that needs to be cast at the beginning of Movement. However, a psyker already on the table could cast it on a recently arrived reserve unit.

As for the WK, you are right. I made a mistake. He is not a character. Still wouldn't have changed his fate though.

The WK isn't a character, but since this list isn't making any use of Runes of Battle you can easily change to use the Iyanden supplement. That would let you choose the WK as your Warlord (still in Heavy), which against some armies is incredibly useful, Chaos in particular just cry because all their expensive characters can't refuse challenges.

And sadly you still can't case Blessings and Maledictions on units that arrive from reserves. Note that the FAQ lets you ROLL for reserves before casting psychic powers, but since you roll and THEN move onto the board (as in its two distinct steps) it doesn't work as you suggest. Yet another reason why Deep Striking Spiders is a very very situational tactic (they are doing most of your damage and would have been well within range turn 1 after that Wraith zerg). To beat Wraithwing you have to be able to deal with 2 out of the 3 elements (Wraiths/Barges/Scythes), and at the moment you are struggling to deal with even a single element

if this is true then I have been had in jim's and mine eldar vs eldar game! I would have thought you would be able to cast blessings on units that arrived from reserves..since it makes sense and that must mean its wrong because GW always makes rules that do not make sense.

Casting a blessing on a unit which just arrived from reserve, is the same as moving a unit into range of the Farseer before casting; you have completed a units move and are no longer "at the begining of the movement phase".

Powerguy wrote:

And sadly you still can't case Blessings and Maledictions on units that arrive from reserves. Note that the FAQ lets you ROLL for reserves before casting psychic powers, but since you roll and THEN move onto the board (as in its two distinct steps) it doesn't work as you suggest. Yet another reason why Deep Striking Spiders is a very very situational tactic (they are doing most of your damage and would have been well within range turn 1 after that Wraith zerg). To beat Wraithwing you have to be able to deal with 2 out of the 3 elements (Wraiths/Barges/Scythes), and at the moment you are struggling to deal with even a single element

You need to prove to me why this is illegal.

Coming in from reserves happens at the beginning of the Movement phase.

Casting Blessings/Maledictions happens at the beginning of the Movement phase.

Both occurs at the same time. The FAQ then tells us we can choose to apply whichever first.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Casting a blessing on a unit which just arrived from reserve, is the same as moving a unit into range of the Farseer before casting; you have completed a units move and are no longer "at the begining of the movement phase".

Again, this is wrong. Why is the beginning of the Movement phase over when 1 unit comes in from reserves. Since psychic powers are cast at the beginning of the Movement phase, does that mean the beginning of the movement phase is over once I cast my psychic powers? For that matter, 1 unit comes in from reserves. Does that mean the beginning of the Movement phase is done and no other units can come in from reserves because it is no longer the beginning of the Movement phase?

Moreover, if it is no longer the beginning of the Movement phase, then I should be able to move my normal guys first and then deepstrike/outflank my reserves thereafters, right? Wrong.

I guarantee you that if you try such a move in a tournament (bringing in your reserves and then casting a psychic power on them), they will rule it legal. Still doubtful? Then go ask in YMDC.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I have to agree with the criticism of jy2's deployment, but hes a hustler and I wouldnt write off the space elves yet.
This is probably the point at which jy2 gets his wallet out and says "shall we make things interesting".

Lol. I might just add this to my signature.

Moridan wrote:

Good to know that about the order of powers. I read that in the FAQ but to me if you cant cast powers when you first deepstrike... how can you can powers ON something that just deepstruck... but hey, if thats how they play it in tourneys, thats good for me.

Yeah, sometimes GW rules doesn't really make sense logic-wise. There's just a bunch of these silly inconsistencies in the rules but them are da rules.

And do take it to YMDC; let's not clutter this thread further. It's enough to know that most US tournaments are allowing you to cast on units arriving from Reserves, based on the FAQ ruling.

Games is going sort of how I expected. Did not expect the wraiths to live though haha. Tesla rolling good outpaces serpent shields rolling good. Letting tesla get the alpha and beta strike was a mistake;p. one I'm sure you won't make again. Can't wait to see how the space elf's pull themselves out of this.

Would love to see a new version without the (in hindsight at least) obvious mistakes:

- Deployment: the only excuse to deploy like that is if you go first (and even then, why would you against an assault army?). But I am guessing that won't happen again
- Reserves: I find it hardly ever better to reserve Warp spiders. Only reasons being you fear them to be wiped turn 1 or there are no targets for them (both not the case here). In this game they should have been there to help whittle down the Wraiths.

Shame though, would have loved to see how the two lists would compare, but it does show that no matter how good the list you still need a good general*

* please know I mean this in jest, I appreciate the battle reports and know that these mistakes are inevitable when changing armies. Also we often learn more from our mistakes and I like that you allow us to see the ones you make so we can all learn and avoid them ourselves (still need to teach myself not to forget to battle focus back my war walkers after they shoot ).

Ok, this is a review of the game so far.

Mistakes that I have made:

1. Deployed my wave serpents too close. I agree with the criticisms here. At the very least, I should have stayed out of testa-destructor range (that's 12" move + 24" range).

2. Letting my farseer get assaulted. Just a small mistake, not a major one.

3. Thinking that my wraith knight was a character, though I really had no choice but to assault the wraithstar. Otherwise, it would have ate up several units.

4. Forgetting that my Warlord can Hit-&-Run due to his wargear.


Mistakes that I don't agree with:

- Deploying the spiders on the board. The firepower is good, but more importantly to me is their positioning. I need a way to threaten my opponent's backfield. You will see as the report goes on.


As for my opponent, he did make some mistakes as well, though he had his reasons for playing the way he did just as I had for playing the way I did. It is a learning game for the both of us.

 SabrX wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SabrX wrote:
Jy2's deployment wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for two of my Wraith units running 6" and the third running 5". Also, the reason why I didn't go after his other Wave Serpents on turn 2 is because only the Warlord's unit were within range. It would be easier to have everyone converge on the stranded Guardian unit and sling shot forward from consolidation moves after assault.

I see your strategy there but I think it's more beneficial to take out his only mobility for those scoring units and also a huge amount of fire. Also don't forget serpent shields don't work in melee meaning you can explode those WS quite easily and with guardians only having t3 5+ your looking at killing a substantial number by exploding their rides.

Sacrificing a whole unit of Wraiths + Warlord on bottom of turn 2 to kill off a couple of Wave Serpents isn't a good idea in the long run. Guardians aren't that far from the objectives and could easily reach it. By then, I would have had one full strength Wraith unit, 1 Destroyer Lord, 1 depleted Wraith unit left, which would have been stuck in combat with the Wraith Knight. They definitely aren't enough to combat Jy2's remaining troops and Warp Spyders. I need my Destroyer Lords to tank those shots and leave the tank hunting to the Night Scythes and Barges.

This is what I would have done were I playing my necrons.

I would have positioned my lead wraithstar (with the Warlord) in such a position that they can go after either the serpents or the guardians. If done properly, he should be about 6-7" away from the serpents and about 4" from the pinned guardians. Then charge the smaller unit of 2 wraiths into the guardians. Once they make their charge - and they did without any damage from Overwatch - I would have then went after the serpents with a potential multi-assault from the wraithstar. You really don't need 2 units of wraiths to wipe out those guardians. The smaller wraith unit should be enough to wipe them out or at the very least, prevent them from shooting next turn. So this way, you can potentially take out 2-3 units - the guardians and 1 or maybe even 2 serpents. Then if you fail the charge, then it is no different from what happened in our game. The Warlord's unit would still be out in the open for my entire army to shoot.

Don't forget about the possible residual damage that an exploding serpent can do - killing guardians, pinning them or even forcing them to fall back and possibly off the board.

 Valek wrote:
I disagree that the list was a gift to the Necrons, i see a ton of mistakes on eldar side at the start:

Why the hell would you want Warpspiders in reserve, they are very fast and capable of firing turn one, you need them on the table to maximize threats and Volume of Fire.
The seer should stay with them for guide and presience, be sure some are going to doubt very hard on what to attack or shoot at and there are no good choices.
Wraiths can be speedshot by guardians, when they come to close, get them out and optimize fire and serpent shots, its a lot of shots, you might be able to almose wipe out the units.
I still think that the Wraithknight needs a suncannon and 5++ to get the most out of him.

my 2 cents, trying to be constructive, altough these are some hars points to take and as always the critics are easier afterwards.

While I agree that this game is NOT a gift to the necrons, I disagree that the warp spiders NEED to be deployed on the table. Honestly, if I wanted to play the spiders like that, I would have just dropped them for 6 scatter-walkers. IMO, playing the spiders as part of a gunline eldar is not making full use of their abilities (though I'm not saying it couldn't be done effectively). I see them more as a surgical hit-&-retreat unit used to pick off units tactically.

Moreover, with necrons going first, my opponent has the opportunity to alpha-strike them (the spiders) hard when his flyers come in and he focuses his AB's on them as well.

Then again, this is only my 2nd game with them. I may change my tune later on with further play-testing. Until then, I stand by my decision to reserve them, at least in this game, as a sound one. You will see.

Chancetragedy wrote:
Games is going sort of how I expected. Did not expect the wraiths to live though haha. Tesla rolling good outpaces serpent shields rolling good. Letting tesla get the alpha and beta strike was a mistake;p. one I'm sure you won't make again. Can't wait to see how the space elf's pull themselves out of this.

Letting teslas get the alpha-strike was definitely a mistake. However, I really couldn't do anything against their beta-strike. They would have been able to get into range no matter where I moved my serpents by then. It was just a matter of him rolling well with their shooting on T2 and me failing most of my 4+ jinks. Nothing could have been done against that.

@Jy2 yah that's what I mean. The beta strike was coming but you gave up the alpha too. I didn't mean it as a put down more of a joke about letting him have both instead of using your range to get the first strike off. I still think the mechdar have a shot, it will be rough though after those first couple turns.

No worries. And I don't see any of these comments as a put down or a joke, even the ones I don't agree with.

I don't see how eldar can make a comeback but anything is possible... Especially for jy2!

Agree dozer, after his battle report against triptide tau I don't put anything past him or his opponents.

Deployment:
Games are won or lost with deployment (especially with Eldar) so glad people finally saw I was right .

Shuriken Cannon upgrade:
The Shruiken Cannon upgrades are "meh" as you either need to move 6" to fire everything or be in 24" and that seldom comes into play for me as I am generally moving 12" to get into good positions/kite and am keeping the opponent out of range.

I recommend ONLY getting Shuriken Cannon upgrades on serpents that will get close to other units (like ones delivering close ranged units) or if you have nothing else to spend points on. Seriously, staying out of range/danger>extra 3 shots. =)

Serpent Shield/serpent survivability:
I generally only like to drop my shield when I will know the extra shots are going to do some damage (like against weak armor save units in cover/light vehicles/the Scatter Lasers hit against a Flyer/FMC). Otherwise, I tend to keep them up when I know I will be potentially facing a lot of incoming fire. Also, I see no reason not to try to at least get some cover from ruins/hills as that 4+ cover goes to 3+. There is also nothing wrong with moving/turbo-boosting the heck out of there to put a lot of distance between you and opponent-sure you lose a turn of shooting but you also essentially force your opponent's forces that are closing in on you to be in a position like they were in deployment/turn 1.

Dealing with Wraiths:
Other than that, when I face hard units like Wraithspam, I try really hard to get Misfortune and roll on the Divination table like crazy to get it =).


Reserves:
Regarding the reserves issue, the FAQ says reserve ROLLS are made at beginning of the turn but does not address when reserves actually come on the board so it's still unclear even after GW's faq =(. Basically, I just clarify the rules with TOs before the tournament so there are no issues as TOs can run rules however they want. No point arguing when it can go either way.

Yea I have to agree reserving the spiders was smart in this game, he needs them to hit rear armor and take down scythes and their is no better way to due this then drop in behind them the turn after they arrive. It also makes the necron player decide whether they want to go back and deal with an expendable unit or continue being harassed from behind. I do think using DS as a default strategy is a mistake but against NS and hell turkeys I believe it's the best move.

However I am starting to think star engines are better then the SC as it would allow the WS to fire from long range until threatened and then boost over and well out of the threat range of the wraiths for example in this game. I think it also ensures in most games you can grab an objective in 2 turns rather then 3 when the deployment is hammer and anvil. The SC seems fine on WS carrying things like fire dragons and storm guardians though.