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Does a unit that disembarks from a drop pod count as deep striking?

Seems like the same situation to me.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Does a unit that disembarks from a drop pod count as deep striking?

Seems like the same situation to me.

-Matt

Not sure where you were going with this but I don't think it has bearing on the discussion since there is a blanket restriction on launching assaults on the turn a unit comes in from reserves, assault vehicle or not.

I think the thrust of Matt's point was that a unit inside a Deep-Striking vehicle (such as a drop pod) are counted as having Deep-Struck that turn (page 36, bottom left, paragraph beginning "In the Movement phase"), so units that are in a Scouting transport should count as scouting too. The similarity is that the transport has a special deployment rule and the unit inside does not.

Deep striking goes on to clarify that the unit inside is also unable to assault that turn (this is sort of repeating itself, since it has arrived from Reserves), but Scout does not. Perhaps because no-one really thought of it at the time (not many assault vehicles have Scout after all), or perhaps it is intentional that you be able to do this.

GW has gone out of it's way to make turn 1 assaults rare, and in my opinion this is an unintentional loophole at best. All I can suggest is submitting the question to the GW FAQ collectors.

I have got another point:

The rules say the LR doesnt lose the scout special rule if a unit is inside right?
So have the unit inside GAINED the scout special rule because of that? No.
Now if the unit has redeployed together with the LR, by what permission? They don't have scout so they can't redeploy. And even if they had scout, they couldn't redeploy 12" as they are infantry...

That leads to two possibilities:

1. The Raider can't redeploy because of the unit inside, because they are tied together and the unit inside isn't allowed to redeploy.
2. The unit inside isn't redeploying just because it is embarked upon the land raider.

That means either the LR can't redeploy (although still having scout) or the unit inside can make a 1st turn charge out of the LR.
I prefer the latter because otherwise the permission for the transport to keep the scout SR with passengers has no value at all...

 -Nazdreg- wrote:
I have got another point:

The rules say the LR doesnt lose the scout special rule if a unit is inside right?
So have the unit inside GAINED the scout special rule because of that? No.
Now if the unit has redeployed together with the LR, by what permission? They don't have scout so they can't redeploy. And even if they had scout, they couldn't redeploy 12" as they are infantry...

That leads to two possibilities:

1. The Raider can't redeploy because of the unit inside, because they are tied together and the unit inside isn't allowed to redeploy.
2. The unit inside isn't redeploying just because it is embarked upon the land raider.

That means either the LR can't redeploy (although still having scout) or the unit inside can make a 1st turn charge out of the LR.
I prefer the latter because otherwise the permission for the transport to keep the scout SR with passengers has no value at all...

This is why you should take into consideration HawaiiMatt's post. Just like the drop pod who have deepstrike transport models that doesn't. Applying your logic:


The rules say the Drop Pod doesnt lose the deeps strike special rule if a unit is inside right?
So have the unit inside GAINED the deep strike special rule because of that? No.
Now if the unit has deep strike together with the drop pod, by what permission? They don't have deep strike so they can't deploy. And even if they had deep strike, they couldn't deploy as they lack terminator armor or jump pack...

That leads to two possibilities:

1. The Drop Pod can't deploy because of the unit inside, because they are tied together and the unit inside isn't allowed to deploy via deep strike.
2. The unit inside isn't deploying just because it is embarked upon the Drop Pod.

Due to the FAQs we know that the unit inside indeed count as having deep struck, the same would apply to any unit inside a transport with such position rules (deepstrike/scout/Infiltration/Outflank)

@Lord Yayula

2. The unit inside isn't deploying just because it is embarked upon the Drop Pod.

The correct analogy would be: 2. The unit inside isn't deep striking just because it is embarked upon the Drop Pod.

And yes, you could draw that analogy. But: even if deep strike is somehow clarified, unfortunately that has no bearing whatsoever on scout.

Yet the unit inside *counts as* deepstriking

Which implies, heavily, that a unit transported inside a scouting vehicle wound *count as* having scouted as well.

Which implies, heavily, that a unit transported inside a scouting vehicle wound *count as* having scouted as well.

Yep. And thats how I would play it, but I couldn't force my opponent to do so as implications fall under RAI part.

 -Nazdreg- wrote:

Which implies, heavily, that a unit transported inside a scouting vehicle wound *count as* having scouted as well.

Yep. And thats how I would play it, but I couldn't force my opponent to do so as implications fall under RAI part.

Strict RAW is tough on this though.
RAW, if a squad has scout, it's dedicated transport gets it.
RAW, a vehicle can scout.
RAW, I do not see anything allowing a non-scouting unit to be transported outside of it's DZ by a scouting dedicated transport.

Following the example for Drop Pods (special deployment transport, where the transported squad counts as having arrived at the position via the same method), makes the most sense.
If my opponent didn't agree with that because it isn't RAW, I'd ask for the RAW that lets a non-scouting unit move before the game starts.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
I'd ask for the RAW that lets a non-scouting unit move before the game starts.

Nothing. Scouts don't move.

rigeld2 wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:
I'd ask for the RAW that lets a non-scouting unit move before the game starts.

Nothing. Scouts don't move.

At least not during scout redeployment

I'd allow it. Who am I to question the tactics of CREEEEEEED!

I'd say since if that unit was firing a weapon, it would have counted as having moved depending on the speed. Therefore, it would have counted as having moved in the scout step, so would not be allowed.

spaztacus wrote:
I'd say since if that unit was firing a weapon, it would have counted as having moved depending on the speed. Therefore, it would have counted as having moved in the scout step, so would not be allowed.

Scouting is explicitly a "re-deployment" not a move (so if going second, no Jink saves in your opponent's shooting phase for example). Also, I'm not sure how far you moved before that turn makes any difference...

I was juist saying since most fo the tpoic is about wether the units inside the Land Raider did not make a scout move....if the precedent was set that a unit counts as moving if they are inside the transport, then it would make since that unit would have counted as making a scout redeployment if thier transport did.