Crimson Hunter Viable?

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**Nightwolf829**

Crimson Hunter's are the epitome of what it is to be Eldar. They have a very specific role to fill (killing enemy fliers) and they do their job fantastically. That said they are quite expensive and are easy to kill. I personally find that they do well on tables with a lot of buildings that can block LoS, but fair worse on tables where there are only six pieces of low-lying terrain.

Truth be told it depends on your personal preferences, the terrain and armies your group uses, and what role is lacking in your force. I like them, but others may not due to their own unique circumstances.

**ductvader**

^agreed

As is the case with all aspect warriors

**toocool61**

While they may be good at taking out fliers, I'm curious if people think that 4 strength 8 guns on a paper airplane is worth the 160 points. It's a lot of points in a list, and want to see if people believe it is a competitive choice for the cost, or if there is a better alternative. Love hearing what people think! all good ideas and points.

**Nightwolf829**

Keep in mind that the model also has vector dancer and re-rolls failed armor penetration rolls against other flyers. These are extremely important features as the former makes the aircraft more maneuverable than its prey (and can potentially keep it out of harms way for a turn or so) while the latter helps to make sure that the shots that do hit do some sort of damage.

Again your mileage may vary due to terrain and army composition, but if you need a flyer killer the unit is fully capable of doing the job.

**ductvader**

By including one in my 1850 list with just 3 scatter laser serpents I have had enough AA to not worry about it.

**pantsonhead**

toocool61 wrote:
While they may be good at taking out fliers, I'm curious if people think that 4 strength 8 guns on a paper airplane is worth the 160 points. It's a lot of points in a list, and want to see if people believe it is a competitive choice for the cost, or if there is a better alternative. Love hearing what people think! all good ideas and points.

It's fine, if there's no AA. It's only marginally more expensive than 2 2xBL War Walkers and has Skyfire and much more ability to get side armor shots or take advantage of the wound allocation rules. It's significantly more durable than Walkers against regular fire too, although it doesn't have their ability to hide behind stuff and Battle Focus. Vector Dancer means that it practically moves like a skimmer, except up to 36" per turn (obviously the minimum distance requirement hurts, but not much). It has a huge advantage over other flyers in a ground attack role because it simply never has to get close. I think War Walkers are a generally better choice, but HS slots are in high demand and Hunters are a decent substitute.

But it's very vulnerable to long-range Skyfire (flyers) and is completely neutered by long-range Interceptor (Riptides) unless you have good LoS-blocking terrain.

If there were no Nightscythes and no Vendettas and no Heldrakes, and (as a consequence) very few Riptides with Skyfire and often even Interceptor, I would have a Hunter in every list. If you're not playing against lists with lots of flyers and Skyfire, it's really, really good. It's mediocre to decent against lists with lots of flyers and terrible against lists with long-range non-flyer Skyfire.

**Jancoran**

pantsonhead wrote:

Sure, but that doesn't really apply to what I was talking about. I was explicit that Hunters suffer when you're up against long-range AA that you can't easily kill. Good luck clearing a pair of Riptides off the board before your Hunter(s) come on. Vendettas and Nightscythes must be held in Reserves - you're incredibly unlikely to have killed them all before your Hunters come on. One reason you have for taking the Hunters at all is to help deal with flyers like that, but they're not actually efficient at this. In some cases they may be your least-bad option, although it's a little hard to imagine lists where Warp Spiders don't work better in general, but it's important to recognize that you're trying to counter your opponent by spending more points on the counter than he's spending on the thing you're trying to counter.

I'm trying to point out that Hunters are actually a ground attack unit that can somewhat inefficiently handle AA. The problem is that they themselves are extremely vulnerable to the sorts of AA often found in exactly the lists where they would be most useful as ground attack units. You'd love to have a Hunter to snipe Crisis Suits, but Riptides shut them down. You'd love to have a Hunter to snipe side armor on Guard parking lots, but Vendettas are a reasonably efficient counter to them. S8 and Lances are always nice against Necrons, but Nightscythes are extremely good against them.

I suppose it's worth adding that Hunters are also a poor choice against other Eldar lists, since Eldar aren't bad at dealing with AV10 flyers and lack great targets for the Hunters' guns.
.

Im lost here. There is no long range AA I cant handle. the board is only SO BIG. Riptides are in no hurry to see 20 Star Cannon shots in round 1 from war walkrs. Riptides are inaccurate on Early Warning (I would know because I play two of them all of the time, including 9 games this weekend alone) and while a pair of them can definitely take it out... I think it far from a given that they will be around to do so if you ACTUALLY supported the Crimson Hunter. If those Riptides you mention both fire in tound 2, then the Remaining star cannons In my army eats THEM. Which brings me back to what you just said.

Then you go on to talk about Warp Spiders. Trouble ther is, points are limited. If youre doing spiders for anti air (and I wouldn't tell you not to) the Riptides will have a far better shot at killing Spiders if on table. If not on table, then who knows if they will be there when it matters?

We can go round and round but ultimately it comes down to this. the Crimson hunter is FRIGHTENINGLY good at killing flyers. Theres ALMOST no chance of survival against one for enemy flyers. And if there are n oflyers, its dual role is something it is good at too. So wheres the down side? Iy might die? And what is your percentage chance of that NOT happening to SOMETHIG? You cannot...must not...judge things by whether they MIGHT get killed. You judge them on how well you can support them.

**jose kantor**

While it is not so much a statement about how the crimson hunter performs its duties as just good luck on my part I must comment that the one time I played against one I shot it down with a snap fired rending shot from a marine scout sniper....Just saying

**knightofkob**

The thing I love about crimson hunters, is their ability to shoot stuff in the rear armor. You can twist them at the end and shoot LRs at av 11 oposed to WW who wont fool an LR that easy. Also against vendetta, and I talk a single vendetta you win every time. Thats because you either have the first turn, or you fly past where it can possibly shoot you, and then twist. Shooting it the next round.

**Skinnereal**

If the range of enemy AA cannot reach your table-end, Vector Dancer saves your CH getting shot down.
Come on at a very sharp angle, end the move with the base nearly touching the table-edge, and make that extra turn where you want. Zip back and forth until the AA is dead, and then dash up the table to get juicy stuff at the back.

I've not used mine enough, but it is built to take out other fliers, and is the best AA the Eldar has.
But, with the 5+ precision shot, pick off models out of a squad once fliers are out of the way.
Sure, WW are often better, but swap out the BLs for Starcannon, and you've got 6 shots a turn, not the usual 4 with Lance.