Steve steveson - It's not the issue of price per miniature, but start-up cost if you want to play as
GW intend, and what the parent/younger player will total up with the calculator when they read a White Dwarf, or walk into a store and are advised by the clerk. When I'm suggesting people start to play Flames of War you advise them for a 1500-2000pt force, for Infinity 300pts, for X-Wing even 100pts. All of these are
substantially cheaper than
GW's recommended point sizes for their point games. To put other mass-battle systems forward, such as Kings of War or Hail Caesar, these are both much cheaper also. That the single boxset set or blister pack is comparable (I say comparable, because they are still more expensive even at small scale) is a misnomer - I'm sure many people do just buy the odd miniature to paint and build, but I don't think that was the target of the discussion here.
Of course value is a relative thing.. but the point I was trying to make was that 'I just can't rationalize this', is going to be the comment (complete with shake of the head) of more and more youngsters and parents who are looking at buying into wargaming. And this will affect all of us if
GW is the only wargame that they get to see, before giving up on the whole deal and going elsewhere.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Pacific wrote:
We need some of these other games (perhaps Warmachine is almost there?) to become successful enough that
GW have to take notice - start to become competitive with their pricing again, and introduce some of the dynamism and creativity that made them king in the first place, rather than just rolling out tired old re-hashes of material that anyone who has been interested in the hobby for more than 3-4 years will have seen before. I think ultimately the virtual monopoly isn't good for anyone.. perhaps even
GW themselves, if they are to compete with the vast number of draws pulling for younger people's cash these days.
To be fair to
GW, they have been producing a lot of new and unseen units for their various armies. Not very good ones, admittedly (marines in armour wearing armour - really? Thats the best you could come up with?), but they are having a go.
Within the limited confines of the core games they have been making some interesting looking units recently, but in the wider context of what they have achieved in the past it is pretty pitiful. Take a look at a list of the games that the company released throughout the 80's and 90's, and consider now what is on the shelves of the store or supported. (Deep breath!
:
Space Crusade, Epic 6mm, Necromunda, Mordheim, Ultramarines, Space Fleet, Battlefleet Gothic, Dark Future, Tyranid Attack, Space Hulk, Warhammer Quest, Heroquest, Gorkamorka, Warhammer Ancients (and numerous spin-offs), Warmaster, Trolls in the Pantry, Adeptus Titanicus, Battlemaster.. and this is not to count all of the numerous little games that appeared in White Dwarf over the years, the little roleplaying games and licensed stuff like Judge Dredd and Doctor Who. It really was a 'Games Workshop', and they were constantly pushing the boundaries back with both the rules and miniatures they produced. I think many of the 30+ posters who are on Dakka grew up on these games, and are generally thought of extremely fondly.
While it would be unreasonable to expect massive international-corporation
GW to start publishing rules made by Rick Priestly in his lunchbreak the previous Wednesday, with a matching model made from a deodorant bottle again, it would be nice to see them pushing the boundaries again in some form. Infinity manages an international league and tournament system, with fully interactive online army builders -
FoW has a simpler version of the same thing. Think of the ideas that Rick Priestly had envisaged for his sadly unreaslied Gates of Antares game system - of massive, international real-time campaigns where players can contribute to an ever-evolving game universe through the opportunities presented with the new technologies of tablets and smart phones. Imagine new casting technologies, of fully embracing the new 3D printing technology to introduce new user interaction with the products they are buying. Of fully embracing the internet and of helping to pull the gaming community together through ladder/competition and special narrative events.
These are just a few ideas, but I think it should be obvious that with just a little will (and even a small % of the capital that
GW possess) some of these ideas could be realised. But, perhaps the point is that they haven't
had to. The lack of significant competition has, as is the way with monopolies (and at least until now), allowed the company to fall into a rut in terms of the material they are bringing to the market and become remarkably lazy. I think what summed it up best was when I was writing a Tyranid list for
40k a while ago. It took me quarter of an hour to realise that I had accidentally picked up an old codex and not the latest one... most of the artwork, the background stories, were nigh on identical to the newer book and so I hadn't noticed. Possibly not an issue with the current round of released (I'd have noticed with the hardcover - surely a case of the Emperor's new clothes if there ever was one) but really this is going to be an issue for anyone who has followed the company for more than a few years. It would be nice to have something truly original, for those creative muscles that the design team undoubtedly possess, to be flexed once in a while.. So perhaps in summary (and
TLDR) - it's not what
GW are doing, but what they
aren't doing, that is the issue here. The over-inflated prices are a big part of that.
Anyway.. sorry for the rather large post!
