Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
99% of all FW models, as they are exceptionally good-looking models. The remaining 1% are the terribly overpowered stuff, mostly, as usual, IG.

What about horribly Underpowered stuff like the breacher drill, any of the FW Chaos fliers, or lightning strike fighter?

What about those? I thought I was pretty clear...

Just wanted to be clear.

 Kain wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
99% of all FW models, as they are exceptionally good-looking models. The remaining 1% are the terribly overpowered stuff, mostly, as usual, IG.

What about horribly Underpowered stuff like the breacher drill, any of the FW Chaos fliers, or lightning strike fighter?

What about those? I thought I was pretty clear...

Just wanted to be clear.

Good

A lof FW products actually are underpowered, in terms of balancing them vs. their codex counterparts, it's only those very few downright broken products that keep people on their ever-lasting anti-FW crusade.

Repressor, Taurus Jeeps and the good ole' Thudd Gun.

Imposter101 wrote:All Forge World units are normal units.

People need to stop pretending this.
I'm all for trying out FW rules, but saying that FW rules are standard by definition is a misconception at best, blatantly spreading a lie at worst. FW books don't have the "Chapter Approved" stamp. Try showing up at a GW tournament with FW rules, they won't let you play that army. Same for at least a fair number of LGS and fan-organised events. Don't lead other gamers into such an awkward situation.

Troike wrote:The Avenger Strike Fighter, of course. Sisters could use a flyer.

Bah, the Avenger is ugly.
The Lightning, on the other hand ...

 Lynata wrote:
Bah, the Avenger is ugly.

It doesn't have to be...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-search.jsp?dq=Avenger

Shandara made one that looks really nice using the Immolator sprue. Very Sistery. Presumably, a GW-made SoB Avenger would get similar iconography to look the part.

But yes, a Lighting Fighter is fine too.

Sonic Dreadnought.

Troike wrote:It doesn't have to be... http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-search.jsp?dq=Avenger
Shandara made one that looks really nice using the Immolator sprue. Very Sistery. Presumably, a GW-made SoB Avenger would get similar iconography to look the part.

I admit, that looks amazing. Great job.

Might still look better on a Lightning ... I don't know, I guess I just don't like the wing configuration. :/

 Lynata wrote:
Repressor, Taurus Jeeps and the good ole' Thudd Gun.

Imposter101 wrote:All Forge World units are normal units.

People need to stop pretending this.
I'm all for trying out FW rules, but saying that FW rules are standard by definition is a misconception at best, blatantly spreading a lie at worst. FW books don't have the "Chapter Approved" stamp. Try showing up at a GW tournament with FW rules, they won't let you play that army. Same for at least a fair number of LGS and fan-organised events. Don't lead other gamers into such an awkward situation.

Troike wrote:The Avenger Strike Fighter, of course. Sisters could use a flyer.

Bah, the Avenger is ugly.
The Lightning, on the other hand ...

Why would you want such a whimpy flier?

It's barely got any dakka and goes down in flames when someone sneezes on it.

Now the Thunderbolt is a nice, powerful flier.

 Lynata wrote:
People need to stop pretending this.
I'm all for trying out FW rules, but saying that FW rules are standard by definition is a misconception at best, blatantly spreading a lie at worst. FW books don't have the "Chapter Approved" stamp. Try showing up at a GW tournament with FW rules, they won't let you play that army. Same for at least a fair number of LGS and fan-organised events. Don't lead other gamers into such an awkward situation.

And how would you call that stamp?

 Kain wrote:
Why would you want such a whimpy flier?

It's barely got any dakka and goes down in flames when someone sneezes on it.

Now the Thunderbolt is a nice, powerful flier.

No reason it can't be buffed up for a codex entry.

Really, the only reason I'm adovcating it is that Sisters need a flyer and this one has some appropriate fluff behind it. I'd have no problem with some new flyer being invented for them, or just using the Lightning.

Buzzgob and his mega dred!

lynata wrote:

Imposter101 wrote:All Forge World units are normal units.

People need to stop pretending this.
I'm all for trying out FW rules, but saying that FW rules are standard by definition is a misconception at best, blatantly spreading a lie at worst. FW books don't have the "Chapter Approved" stamp. Try showing up at a GW tournament with FW rules, they won't let you play that army. Same for at least a fair number of LGS and fan-organised events. Don't lead other gamers into such an awkward situation.

People need to stop pushing this lie. There is no such thing as 'chapter approved' and 'GW tournaments'. Frankly, GW could care less how we mix and match their models...as long as you buy them.

There is also no OP units in the game, FW or otherwise. Are there units that are a pain, yes. But they all have counters, it is just that a few don't want to change their 'fine tuned all comers' list for things they doesn't understand. Most of the people that cry OP do so because the "OP" unit makes them change how they play their list and they can't handle change. Even the dreaded Lucius Droppod is not OP, is costs half as much as the unit it carriesand has all the limitations of a normal droppod, but because it breaks the sacred no assault out of deep strike rule people cry.

The 'FW sucks, is OP, is etc' idea comes from the mass of wannabe tourny players that build lists to fight the primary codexes and nothing else. These are the ones that cry when people add new units from any source because they now have to change their list for the new cheese on the table. "Tourny" players need to realize that the game does not revolve around them and to leave the fluff/casual players out of their delusions. Their wishes do not drive the rules of the game outside of tournaments, so stop pushing tournaments rules outside of tournaments.

In the category of Forgeworld models I'd just like to see again at all, Dreadclaw drop pods.

I believe they're meant to be redoing the kit, and I look forward to it but damn, I'd like to get my hands on a few.

XV9 Hazard Suits!!!!!!

 Troike wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Why would you want such a whimpy flier?

It's barely got any dakka and goes down in flames when someone sneezes on it.

Now the Thunderbolt is a nice, powerful flier.

No reason it can't be buffed up for a codex entry.

Really, the only reason I'm adovcating it is that Sisters need a flyer and this one has some appropriate fluff behind it. I'd have no problem with some new flyer being invented for them, or just using the Lightning.

You could have both the Avenger (ground attack) and Lightning (air to air) in one army. Although I'd suggest moving the Avenger to heavy support and the lightning to fast attack (and allow it to be squadronned) so that they don't compete.

 Lynata wrote:
People need to stop pretending this.
I'm all for trying out FW rules, but saying that FW rules are standard by definition is a misconception at best, blatantly spreading a lie at worst. FW books don't have the "Chapter Approved" stamp. Try showing up at a GW tournament with FW rules, they won't let you play that army. Same for at least a fair number of LGS and fan-organised events. Don't lead other gamers into such an awkward situation.

Kain wrote:Why would you want such a whimpy flier?

It looks cool. That really is all there is to it, and I'm not ashamed to admit that.

Kangodo wrote:And how would you call that stamp?

Forgeworld's way of saying that this product has been written for 40k games, obviously. Just like it says in the text.

That doesn't change anything about the legality of these rules. My houserules are written for 40k games, too.

hisdudeness wrote:People need to stop pushing this lie. There is no such thing as 'chapter approved' and 'GW tournaments'. Frankly, GW could care less how we mix and match their models...as long as you buy them.

As far as I know, there is no "people" - it's pretty much only me, because I feel somebody should stand up and point out the truth.

If you believe that there is "no such thing" as Chapter Approved, then I suggest you open an issue of White Dwarf and look for the stamp printed next to some of the rules. If you believe that there is "no such thing" as GW Tournaments, then I suggest you visit their website and have a look.

This has nothing to do with "OPness" either. I'm making a statement intended to prevent people from reading something on dakka, then buying a FW unit, and later coming back complaining they weren't allowed to field it even though "we" said they would be able to.
I appreciate your emotional investment with whatever FW units you like to field - they certainly all look cool - but that doesn't justify the kind of misrepresentation I see from the "FW crowd" desperately trying to push their little corner of the game further into the middle.

At the end of the day, only the Basic Codices are the "common ground", anything else - be it Apocalypse, Cityfight, FW armies or my own houserules, will differ depending on which event or store or club you play at. So please, let's not pretend otherwise and scam people into getting disappointed because they felt they wouldn't have to inquire about such details before going to wherever they want to play.

The Ork Flakka Trukk. Something a bit reliable against flyers than just shooting everything you got.

 Lynata wrote:
Forgeworld's way of saying that this product has been written for 40k games, obviously. Just like it says in the text.
That doesn't change anything about the legality of these rules. My houserules are written for 40k games, too.

The difference is that Forge World is owned by Games Workshop, your houserules aren't.
All those entries say "X is a Heavy Support choice for Codex: blabla" and that means you can use them.

What is your standard for "I'll allow this in game of warhammer"?
Does it need a 40k-approved stamp? Forgeworld has it.
Does it need to be sold on the main site? That would suck for all my OOP-models.
Where do you draw the line?

 Sigvatr wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
People need to stop pretending this.
I'm all for trying out FW rules, but saying that FW rules are standard by definition is a misconception at best, blatantly spreading a lie at worst. FW books don't have the "Chapter Approved" stamp. Try showing up at a GW tournament with FW rules, they won't let you play that army. Same for at least a fair number of LGS and fan-organised events. Don't lead other gamers into such an awkward situation.

FW-rules aren't part of the core rules, that is corect, but there are units that are "40k approved" and may thus be used "just as" they were part of the rules. Those models would be allowed at any tournament unless the TO disallows the use of Forgeworld units. There are several reasons for why FW is not allowed at most (?) tournaments, including poor balance, IG favorism, higher degree of complexity etc. but we already got a thread in Dakka Discussions on said matter and going in a in-depth discussion on said matter would go far beyond what's to be desired to be found in this thread here in particular.

Could you fix that quote? Because I did not say that.

MK III and IV armor kits.
Contemptor dreds.
Chaos dreds because I don't like "hellbrutes."

As others have posted, we play all FW models as normal 40k models as the intention was when the rules/books were printed.

We don't suffer from TFG syndrome where people don't want to play against them because it makes their calculations on how overpowered their build is suddenly requiring more work...

But to keep with the theme, if there was one thing I wish would cross over into the normal books it would be the aircraft/AA to help level that playing field.

games workshop don't allow forgeworld in their tournaments i think that's a pretty clear statement. Not that it will stop people trying to obliterate people using an army that is probably op and definitely unknown.

Wait this title doesn't make sense. It's basically saying "Which normal 40k unit would you like to see in normal 40k?"

To which I say: "What?"

GW also doesn't allow 4,000 point lists in their tournaments. Does that mean that anything above 1250 is illegal?

xruslanx wrote:
games workshop don't allow forgeworld in their tournaments i think that's a pretty clear statement. Not that it will stop people trying to obliterate people using an army that is probably op and definitely unknown.

They also don't allow supplements.

xruslanx wrote:
games workshop don't allow forgeworld in their tournaments i think that's a pretty clear statement. Not that it will stop people trying to obliterate people using an army that is probably op and definitely unknown.

The end of you're post made my brain hurt.

Seriously, because you don't understand something, or have knowledge of it, doesn't make it OP.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Wait this title doesn't make sense. It's basically saying "Which normal 40k unit would you like to see in normal 40k?"

To which I say: "What?"

GW also doesn't allow 4,000 point lists in their tournaments. Does that mean that anything above 1250 is illegal?

troll harder.

In the category of 'allowed armies', gw specifically exclude anything from forgeworld. You can choose to allow it if you want, or not. It's your choice. But don't pretend it's official when it's not.

Sidestepping the whole inevitable FW and "Normal" 40k debate, I do wish certain models were in codex books.

For IG: Thudd guns, Rapier Laser Destroyers, Heavy Mortars, Tauros & Venators, LR Annihilators, Autocannon Chimeras, Vultures, and Salamanders

For CSM's: Sonic Dreads, Dreadclaws, Decimators, Hell Talon, Hell Blade

For Eldar: Hornets, Warp Hunters, and Shadow Spectres, Phoenix, Nightwing, and Firestorms.

For Tau: Hazard Suits, Tetras, Barracudas and Remoras.

xruslanx wrote:


In the category of 'allowed armies', gw specifically exclude anything from forgeworld. You can choose to allow it if you want, or not. It's your choice. But don't pretend it's official when it's not.

And then this gets posted.

GW tournaments have no bearing on what is "legal" or "official". Tournaments are their own thing, distinct and separate from normal play. What few events GW does run also does not allow allies, supplements, and double-force orgs. Most 40k events and tournaments are not run by GW. GW tournaments are run by their marketing department, the Design Studio does not write rules for these events and came right out and said they don't intend for 40k to be a tournament game. If you're using tournaments to judge what is "legal" outside of whatever specific tournament you're attending, then you're doing it wrong.

We use FW at my local shop and nobody has really had any problems.

I would have liked a plastic kit for xv-9 suits in the tau codex, though.

Ok, lets be honest about the OP topic-there are OP stuff. both in FW and in "regular" codeci (annihilation barge for example, worth WAY more then 90 points)
But then again, "Lead disadvantage"-you know something is OP? assume it will show up, and bring a proper counter. even OP units can be countered by non-OP units if you know what you are doing, its just harder and costly.


Back to forgeworld legality topic, don't know about you-but around here its normally allowed without issues, so its a bit of a strech to say "nobdy accept it", only handful don't accept it.
And GW own tournaments turning them down is borderline slowed, so while true, not point to dwell on it.


And if only tetras were plastic GW, I would buy tons. unfortunately FW is not easy to acquire here, so there are handful of it wandering around, and not entire armies we wished we could.

I just wish Forgeworld would design some kind of flyer for the Space Marines that isn't based on that awful Storm Raven kit. The Storm Eagle is okay looking and has it's nice features and good angles, but that upcoming Fire Raptor is awful. Probably because it's still based on a kit that is considered one of the worst vehicle models GW has ever released.

They release all of these beautiful models that are their own unique sculpts, and yet half-ass the Space Marine flyers. I mean the Thunderbolts and Lightning (very very frightening) are amazing. Especially the new Voss one.

As far as which ones should be brought into regular 40K? They should just release "official" rules for all of them. The game will never be hurt by variety. What it gets hurt by are the constant rule shifts designed to sell more models, lol.

Ooooooooo Barracuda.~
or plastic remoras