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Pedro's rule is oddly worded, it should have just said 'Sternguard with Imperial Fists chapter tactics.'

In any case, in practice this doesn't matter; any Sternguar with IF tactics in an army with Pedro will always be CF Sternguard. There is no reason why any player would choose their Sternguard not to be scoring, if all it takes to make them scoring is to say: "These count as Crimson Fists."

 Mr. Shine wrote:


Codex: Space Marines only really tells us that when choosing a detachment, whether primary or allied, we must choose a chapter for it. Additional primary (and allied) detachments must be taken from the same codex, but I'm not sure that's to say that we must choose the same chapter tactics for both primary detachments.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that each chapter tactics choice counts as its own codex for these purposes.

Pg 77. "For the purposes of the Allies rules, these detachments are treated as if they where chosen from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different Chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics in the same detachment."

 DJGietzen wrote:
Pg 77. "For the purposes of the Allies rules, these detachments are treated as if they where chosen from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different Chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics in the same detachment."

Bolded/underlined emphasis mine. There's no reference to second primary detachments there.

It suggests to me that allied and second allied detachments may need to have the same chapter tactics, but there's no such requirement for a second primary detachment.

A space marine detachment chosen from this codex that has one set of Chapter Tactics may ally with another Space Marine detachment chosen from this codex that has a different set of Chapter Tactics. For the purposes of the Allies rules these detachments are treated as if they were chosen from two different codexes.

This is the first part of the rule, the 2nd being quoted earlier.

You can have Ultramarines Primary Detachment and Imperial Fists secondary.
As far as running 2 primary detachments from two different chapters, look at page 109-110 in the BRB about Primary Detachments. If you play a larger game you can take an additional primary detachment.

Now go back to the rule I've quoted above and you can see that in no place does the word Primary or Secondary appear. It simply says detachments. You have permission to take a second primary detachment from the BRB (in a large game) and no restriction from the C:SM on that second primary from being another Chapter.

So what this means for C:SM

- You are allowed to have a primary detachment and a secondary detachment from different chapters
- You are allowed to have two primary detachments from different chapters.
- You may use successor chapters interchangeably and it will count as one detachment
- You may use successor chapters mixed within 2 primary detachments

The codex has been written specifically to allow a wide range of Space Marines to appear on the battle field. You could have a Primary detachment of Ultramarines mixed in with Howling Griffons, Silver Skulls, Novamarines and any other combination, then in your second Primary detachment have a White Scars army with Storm Lords and Dark Hunters all mixed in.

Orock wrote:
Rules weren't clear on that part. Im guessing no.

Also since he makes sternguard scoring, but not troops, and only troops can capture objectives and such, what exactly is the benefit of having sternguard be a scoring unit?

Wow... 9 scoring options vice six is pretty clear and lets not even get into "combat squad" options... really?

 Byte wrote:

Orock wrote:
Rules weren't clear on that part. Im guessing no.

Also since he makes sternguard scoring, but not troops, and only troops can capture objectives and such, what exactly is the benefit of having sternguard be a scoring unit?

Wow... 9 scoring options vice six is pretty clear and lets not even get into "combat squad" options... really?

that's why I asked though, I thought scoring units was just a term carried over from 5th, and dident realize that the difference between troops and scoring units were troops were both, and scoring units are considered anything able to score, but not necessarily able to fill your troop slots.

Maybe it is because I stick to just friendly games, mostly on vassal, as I don't have enough time to dedicate to competitive or tournament play that I don't build plans designed to hold six objectives at once. Maybe it is because I use the Tau doctrine of '**** objectives, lets just eliminate their army and if that fails, run away...' that I am over looking something important here. However, regardless of the reasons, I have never seen the allure of having as many scoring units as possible.

Of the six basic mission types only three will have you starting with more then 2 objective points anyway. Two of these three, if I remember properly, also turn other force organization slots into scoring at the same time. Those 'more then 2 objective' missions also have a random element to just how many objective points they have, so it is possible you could still end up with a small number of objectives and more then enough scoring units to capture the majority of them in any case. Would seem a waste of points filling all your troop and elite slots, just so you would start with 9 scoring units on that slim chance that you need to weather sustained fire while holding onto four separate objective points.

Still it grants some more flexibility if you where already going to take Sternguards, so there is that.