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2013/09/29 21:55:38
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
BaronIveagh wrote: Actually the US Army held war games covering it the Tea Party did exactly this and took over a major US city, in the event the governor was unable or unwilling to deploy the National Guard.
We also had war games for the invasion of Great Britain. The Army holds war games for lots of scenarios, including the ludicrously unlikely.
That and most of them don't have the balls. This is partially due to the fact they don;'t actually believe most of the garbage they spew.
And you still don't see what Greek and US politics aren't a good comparison?
You know, I've read quite a few articles on this, and not seen your proof, so, source please.
All the ones I can find are in Greek, so I'm stuck trusting what people say it says. Major party leaders were arrested because they were in phone contact with George Roupakias, who murdered Pavlos Fyssas. Police chiefs have resigned, officers have been arrested for colluding with the murder of Fyssas. Can't figured out exactly what the collusion is supposed to entail specifically. It seems to be that the police guarding the event where he was killed allowed allowed it to happen(?).
This is not a case of trumped up charges. Golden Dawn has a long history of encouraging violence, and its members keep enacting violence. Attacks on immigrants, communists, and anarchists, public officials, major celebrities. It's been documented since 2002. It's not new and its not even controversial in Greece or among outside observers, except on Dakka apparently. Golden Dawn is like dozens of other Neo-Nazi groups across Europe and especially in the Balklands. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its probably a duck and if all else fails there is seemingly enough evidence for Greek officials to treat them like ducks. EDIT: I mean that last part as in they're going to be able to paint Golden Dawn as criminal and have legitimacy while they do it.
Golden Dawn is one of the fish in the barrel except they made the silly mistake of trying to jump of the barrel so now everyone's shooting their shotguns at them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
djones520 wrote: I haven't really been bothered with this, but are people actually trying to compare the Tea Party to these guys now? Have we gone that far off the deep end?
Yes.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/29 22:00:30
djones520 wrote: I haven't really been bothered with this, but are people actually trying to compare the Tea Party to these guys now? Have we gone that far off the deep end?
I can imagine that there are self-proclaimed Tea Party members who wouldn't mind some criminal actions to meet their goals. Just as there are self-proclaimed Republicans, Democrats, Greens, etc.
The Tea Party as a collective group might be crazy (in my opinion), but they have been satisfied with using legal means and procedures to drive congress into chaos (again, in my opinion).
Golden Dawn are criminal wackos like the Tea Party is pretty inaccurate IMO.
Golden Dawn are criminal wackos like the Tea Party is pretty inaccurate IMO.
If you go by the 3% rule the Greeks seem to, though, they'd qualify.
And so would every political party pretty much.
I'll bet every Greek political party would also qualify for this as well, its just that they've now chosen to actually use this rule to get their political opponents.
3% is. well. pretty darn low.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/29 23:55:29
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
BaronIveagh wrote: If you go by the 3% rule the Greeks seem to, though, they'd qualify.
We're not arguing Greek penal codes. We're arguing that the comparison is crappy and since the US doesn't use Greek penal codes, it's a complete red herring to whether or not Golden Dawn is a politically corrupt group that engages in widespread criminal activity.
EDIT: The irony of this situation is that its a corrupt group being prosecuted by a corrupt government under laws that have an absurdly broad definition of criminal activity. Welcome to Greece. It's not the USA.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/30 00:01:48
Actually the US Army held war games covering it the Tea Party did exactly this and took over a major US city, in the event the governor was unable or unwilling to deploy the National Guard.
Baron. At times I wonder about you. Give me a bit more then this so I have an idea "WTH" your talking about. Link to an article. Name of the Exercise that was conducted. Something.
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2013/09/30 00:48:41
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
Actually the US Army held war games covering it the Tea Party did exactly this and took over a major US city, in the event the governor was unable or unwilling to deploy the National Guard.
Baron. At times I wonder about you. Give me a bit more then this so I have an idea "WTH" your talking about. Link to an article. Name of the Exercise that was conducted. Something.
Not an actual exercise, but a hypothetical covered in a paper written by a retired US Army Colonel that covers the scenario of the US Army fighting insurrectionists "motivated by the goals of the “tea party” movement ".
This was an exercise in imagination, a true "what if" scenario, the authors - no matter their political leanings - did a good job at making every one of us think about the outcome.
I agree with the poster on page. Thanks for the link Infinite. I just need Baron to clarify what exercises that he is referring to. I either can expand on it, reasoning behind it, and/or that he might be misinformed on something.
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2013/09/30 01:33:28
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
Actually the US Army held war games covering it the Tea Party did exactly this and took over a major US city, in the event the governor was unable or unwilling to deploy the National Guard.
Baron. At times I wonder about you. Give me a bit more then this so I have an idea "WTH" your talking about. Link to an article. Name of the Exercise that was conducted. Something.
During Mangudai at Fort Knox in 2010 they included the Tea Party in the groups that might assault Fort Knox. IIRC the 'intel' that got passed out included them potentially having military grade weapons and explosives. I suspect that I got elements of the two mixed in my memory, however.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/30 01:43:51
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2013/09/30 02:15:56
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
The Defense Department came under fire Thursday for a U.S. Army Reserve presentation that classified Catholics and Evangelical Protestants as “extremist” religious groups alongside al Qaeda and the Ku Klux Klan.
The presentation detailed a number of extremist threats within the U.S. military, including white supremacist groups, street gangs, and religious sects.
The presentation identified seventeen religious organizations in a slide titled “religious extremism.” They include al Qaeda, Hamas, the Filipino separatist group Abu Sayyaf, and the Ku Klux Klan, which the slide identifies as a Christian organization.
“Religious extremism is not limited to any single religion, ethnic group, or region of the world,” the slide explains, in language that closely resembles the text of a Wikipedia page on “extremism.”
While outfits such as al Qaeda and the KKK are explicitly violent, the presentation also lists Catholicism and evangelical Protestantism as extremist groups.
More than half of all Americans identify themselves as members of those two Christian denominations. National Public Radio reported in 2005 that 40 percent of active duty military personnel were evangelical Christians.
“Men and women of faith who have served the Army faithfully for centuries shouldn’t be likened to those who have regularly threatened the peace and security of the United States,” said Col. Ron Crews, a retired Army chaplain and the executive director of the Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty.
“It is dishonorable for any U.S. military entity to allow this type of wrongheaded characterization,” Crews said in a news release.
Crews also criticized the presentation for citing the left-wing Southern Poverty Law Center to support its findings.
The SPLC has dubbed organizations “hate groups” for promoting Christian teachings on morality and sexuality.
A SPLC map of “hate groups” was used by a gunman in 2012 to target the conservative Family Research Council for its position on gay marriage. The gunman shot a security guard at the FRC’s headquarters. The SPLC has refused to comment on its role in the shooting.
The Archdiocese for the Military Services, a Catholic organization that trains and endorses military priests and chaplains, said in a release that it was “astounded that Catholics were listed alongside groups that are, by their very mission and nature, violent and extremist.”
The AMS called on the Pentagon “to review these materials and to ensure that tax-payer funds are never again used to present blatantly anti-religious material to the men and women in uniform.”
An Army spokesperson said the presentation “was produced by an individual without anyone in the chain of command’s knowledge or permission.” The Army removed the offending slide after receiving complaints.
The person responsible for the presentation, the spokesperson said, “was not a subject matter expert, and produced the material after conducting Internet research.”
President Barack Obama is scheduled to posthumously award the Congressional Medal of Honor next week to Catholic Army Chaplain Emil Kapaun, who died in a North Korean military prison in 1951.
“It is hard to understand how a priest like Chaplain Kapaun can be honored in one breath while his faith-group is dishonored in another,” Crews said.
Conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch recently obtained a Department of Defense training manual which lists people who embrace “individual liberties” and honor “states’ rights,” among other characteristics, as potential “extremists” who are likely to be members of “hate groups.”
dodmanMarked “for training purposes only,” the documents, obtained Thursday through a Freedom of Information Act request submitted in April, include PowerPoint slides and lesson plans, among which is a January 2013 Air Force “student guide” distributed by the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute simply entitled “Extremism.”
Judicial Watch’s FOIA request asked for “Any and all records concerning, regarding, or related to the preparation and presentation of training materials on hate groups or hate crimes distributed or used by the Air Force.”
As the group notes, “The document defines extremists as ‘a person who advocates the use of force or violence; advocates supremacist causes based on race, ethnicity, religion, gender, or national origin; or otherwise engages to illegally deprive individuals or groups of their civil rights.’”
The manual goes on to bar military personnel from “active participation” in such extremist organization activities as “publicly demonstrating,” “rallying,” “fundraising” and “organizing,” basically denying active-duty military from exercising the rights they so ardently fight to defend.
It begins its introduction of a section titled, “Extremist ideologies,” by describing the American colonists who sought independence from British rule as a historical example of extremism.
“In U.S. history, there are many examples of extremist ideologies and movements. The colonists who sought to free themselves from British rule and the Confederate states who sought to secede from the Northern states are just two examples,” according to the training guide.
In a section drawing inspiration from a 1992 book titled “Nazis, Communists, Klansmen, and Others on the Fringe: Political Extremism in America,” the manual also lists “Doomsday thinking” under “traits or behaviors that tend to represent the extremist style.”
Extremists often predict dire or catastrophic consequences from a situation or from a failure to follow a specific course, and they tend to exhibit a kind of crisis-mindedness. It can be a Communist takeover, a Nazi revival, nuclear war, earthquakes, floods, or the wrath of God. Whatever it is, it is just around the corner unless we follow their program and listen to their special insight and wisdom, to which only the truly enlightened have access. For extremists, any setback or defeat is the beginning of the end.
“Nowadays,” the manual explains, “instead of dressing in sheets or publicly espousing hate messages, many extremists will talk of individual liberties, states’ rights, and how to make the world a better place.”
Judicial Watch also acknowledges the Southern Poverty Law Center “is listed as a resource for information on hate groups and referenced several times throughout the guide,” even though the group itself was directly responsible for a “hate crime” perpetrated on the Family Research Council after it was listed on the SPLC’s “hate map.”
Infowars readers will find much of the training guide’s contents unsurprising as they merely reinforce what we have exhaustively documented in the past.
In 2009, Infowars obtained the “law enforcement sensitive” contents of a Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) report entitled “The Modern Militia Movement” which listed supporters of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr as potential “militia” influenced terrorists.
Also, in July 2012 Infowars blew the lid off a Department of Homeland Security-funded study, produced by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism at the University of Maryland, that characterized Americans who are “suspicious of centralized federal authority,” and “reverent of individual liberty” as “extreme right-wing” terrorists.
Indeed, the latest report echoes scenes from Alex Jones’ prescient documentary 9/11: The Road to Tyranny, made over a decade ago, which covered the fact that FEMA and other government bureaus have for years been training law enforcement agencies to regard people who espouse conservative ideologies, such as those represented by the Founding Fathers, as terrorists.
It can no longer be denied that military and local law enforcement crosshairs have gradually been realigned from targeting phantom terrorists overseas to targeting domestic “extremists,” a broad, all-encompassing term that accommodates anyone generally challenging or questioning the status quo.
As Judicial Watch notes, although the documents were obtained through the Air Force, the fact that they originated in a DOD office means they have likely been distributed throughout the government’s various agencies.
Judicial Watch president Tom Fitton concluded the documents fall in line with the Obama administration’s “nasty habit of equating basic conservative values with terrorism,” and that the language closely “echoes the IRS targeting language of conservative and Tea Party investigations.” “And now… its Defense Department suggests that the Founding Fathers, and many conservative Americans, would not be welcome in today’s military… After reviewing this document, one can’t help but worry for the future and morale of our nation’s armed forces.”
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2013/09/30 02:24:34
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
I suppose that does rather tie up the assertion that there's no political divides in the US military. I like to imagine that the 'most powerful military on Earth' has some grasp of what it decides are terrorist groups... but that just underlines that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/30 02:26:19
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2013/09/30 02:34:07
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
I suppose that does rather tie up the assertion that there's no political divides in the US military.
Having political opinions is not a political divide. I mean having general A who will go to war at the bequest of political party X and general B who will fight general A if he attacks political party Y.
It is a sad day, when people start equating US political bias' to the absolute corruption in other countries.
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Maybe it just speaks to people not really comprehending what actual corruption is like. They think corruption is simply corruption, that it has no depth or complexity.
Real corruption is being able to bribe a security guard at an airport to bypass the line of people waiting to board. Its buying a senator to be at your literal beck and call. We have nothing that compares to this kind of corruption here.
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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Having political opinions is not a political divide. I mean having general A who will go to war at the bequest of political party X and general B who will fight general A if he attacks political party Y.
It is a sad day, when people start equating US political bias' to the absolute corruption in other countries.
You forget that I see the US politics via the lens of a place where vote buying is the least of the political shenanigans. And pardon my cynicism, but while there are a great many officers who are a credit to the uniform, there are a few who would happily do just that, if you substitute various corporate interests for 'political party'.
Real corruption is being able to bribe a security guard at an airport to bypass the line of people waiting to board. Its buying a senator to be at your literal beck and call. We have nothing that compares to this kind of corruption here.
Look up Youngstown, Ohio. Organized crime owned everyone from the beat cops to the Congressman. They couldn't even try anyone in Ohio, they had to ship them out of state when the FBI finally stepped in. No corruption? We had a guy who was a convicted felon, arrested with 300 pot plants and four machine guns. Time served and the machine-guns were returned.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/30 02:51:08
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
The KKK is a Christian* extremist group, and there are extremist groups for Evangelicals and Catholics. The article states that they their "presentation identified seventeen religious organizations", not generic religious idintifiers i.e. it doesn't say Catholicism is an extremest group, it says that The Fatima Crusaders are an extremist group.
*Not to be confused with the Christian Identity hate group movement. While the KKK is not as overtly focused on the religious front you have to be protestant to be a member, and much of their hate speech is in regards to religion. They aren't big fans of anything not Protestant as well as non-White.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/30 04:55:02
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
*Not to be confused with the Christian Identity hate group movement. While the KKK is not as overtly focused on the religious front you have to be protestant to be a member, and much of their hate speech is in regards to religion. They aren't big fans of anything not Protestant as well as non-White.
Mind you the two have overlapping membership in places, such as the Grand Wizard picked up in Pennsylvania a while back by the FBI.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Seems that all but one of the MPs charged so far are out on bail. BBC comments that this may mean the Greek Government actually has a fairly weak case, but we'll see. The founder of GD has yet make an appearance.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
LordofHats wrote: It's not new and its not even controversial... except on Dakka apparently.
Man, that should be dakka's tag line.
Ahtman wrote: The KKK is a Christian* extremist group, and there are extremist groups for Evangelicals and Catholics. The article states that they their "presentation identified seventeen religious organizations", not generic religious idintifiers i.e. it doesn't say Catholicism is an extremest group, it says that The Fatima Crusaders are an extremist group.
Yeah, that was a really gakky article, trying to invent a contraversy through weasel words.
*Not to be confused with the Christian Identity hate group movement. While the KKK is not as overtly focused on the religious front you have to be protestant to be a member, and much of their hate speech is in regards to religion. They aren't big fans of anything not Protestant as well as non-White.
They allowed Catholics in to the organisation a while ago. Which was funny, because they originally started as an anti-catholic organisation. An Australian comedian called John Safran heard about that and did a bit on it, travelling to the US, meeting with a local KKK group, and asking them if he could join, even though he was a Jew. He explained that now that they allowed Catholics to join, why not a Jew? The KKK were kind of dumbfounded.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/03 03:51:48
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/10/03 04:24:28
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
I really hate dealing with Extremists. They're so unpredictable.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
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2013/10/03 04:55:15
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
