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Greek police have mounted an unprecedented crackdown on the neo-fascist Golden Dawn party, arresting its leader, three MPs, and more than a dozen other key members.
As the prime minister, Antonis Samaras, held emergency talks on Saturday with his public order and justice ministers, Nikos Michaloliakos, the extremist organisation's enigmatic founder, was being held by counter-terror officers after a carefully orchestrated operation that began in the early hours of the morning.
The arrested officials will appear in court over the weekend on charges of forming a criminal organization, police said.
Emerging from the talks with Samaras, the justice minister, Charalambos Athanasiou, said: "Justice has moved with decisiveness and transparency. I want to say for all those who have been arrested if they are sent to trial there will be just justice."
Authorities said some 25 counter-terrorism units were trying to track down two other MPs almost nine hours after Michaloliakos was arrested in his Athens home at 7am. Greek media quoted the politician as telling police "what you are doing is not right. The truth will shine," as he was taken away in handcuffs.
Hundreds of Golden Dawn supporters, many wearing the party's black T-shirts, gathered outside Athens' police headquarters, spurred on a text message reportedly sent by the party to "support our moral and just struggle against the corrupt system". Michaloliakos and his chief lieutenant, the party's spokesman Ilias Kasidiaris, were inside the building.
Yesterday Kasidiaris, who became infamous with an assault on two female leftwing MPs during a live television debate last year, joked that "we are here to hand ourselves in" as the party launched a lawsuit against Pasok, the junior leftist party in Samaras' fragile coaltion.
Police said weapons had been discovered in the crackdown. Three guns allegedly found in Michaloliakos' home were to undergo ballistics tests, the media reported.
Greece's third-biggest party, Golden Dawn has seen its popularity soar amid desperation and despair over the country's economy, becoming Europe's most extreme rightwing political force in the process. Human rights groups hold the party responsible for hundreds of attacks on dark-skinned immigrants in the three years since the debt-stricken country plunged into crisis.
Since being elected to parliament for the first time in June last year with 7% of the vote, Golden Dawn has been linked to a wave of violence directed mostly against migrants, gays and leftists on Greece's increasingly fractious political scene.
The fatal stabbing of Pavlos Fyssas, a hip hop star popular among anti-fascists earlier this month, prompted widespread outrage and finally galvanised the governing coalition into taking action. Amid revelations thatGolden Dawn had set up hit squads with the help of commandos in the special forces and openly colluded with the police, authorities launched a far-reaching inquiry into the group's activities. Two senior police generals resigned and several officers were suspended following allegations of links with the party. More than a dozen Golden Dawn members, including the 45-year-old man who confessed to murdering Fyssas, were rounded up.
It is the first time since 1974 that a party head and sitting MPs have been arrested. "This is without precedent in Greek political life," said professor of constitutional law Kostas Chrysogonos. "Authorities are acting within the law but I also think it would have been constitutionally more correct if they had asked parliament to lift their [MPs] political immunity first."
Even if the MPs are imprisoned pending trial, they will still retain their standing as deputies, experts say.
This week Kasidiaris told a TV show that "they can arrest us, they can put us in prison, but we will still be MPs. We are not going to go back even one step."
Although Samaras' shaky coalition has been applauded for its tough stance – with opinion polls showing a drop in support for Golden Dawn and a slight rise for his own conservative New Democracy party – there are fears that the crackdown could ultimately have a boomerang effect on the government.
The radical left main opposition leader, Alexis Tsipras, gave voice to those fears this week saying the party should be confronted "within the law, not outside it".
Before the crackdown Golden Dawn was polling at around 15%, prompting it to boast it had "more than a million" supporters nationwide.
Earlier this week, Michaloliakos warned he might withdraw his 18-strong parliamentary group from Greece's 300-seat parliament – a move that could unleash political instability in a country dependent on international rescue funds to survive.
The politician had also said that what he described as "mud-slinging and slander" against his party would also "open the gates of hell".
Civil war is a real possibility, given the state of Greece's economy, collusion between police and/or army and Golden Dawn, and Greece's chequered political past.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Suppressing a political party is absolutely the worst thing they they could do, particularly one as popular as GD. (Yes, I'm aware they're Greek Nazis)
Let me forecast how this plays out: They WILL find that the guns were used in all sorts of horrible crimes, the GD WILL claim they were planted, the government will seek the maximum sentence and get it from a friendly judge, and the GD will paint their fallen comrade as a martyr to the corrupt system (which... it is, in all honesty).
The real problem is that they really are in a position to destabilize Greece further.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2013/09/29 02:10:01
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
Well. I figure Greece going "hard liner" in its economy and social structure.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
BaronIveagh wrote: Suppressing a political party is absolutely the worst thing they they could do, particularly one as popular as GD. (Yes, I'm aware they're Greek Nazis)
Let me forecast how this plays out: They WILL find that the guns were used in all sorts of horrible crimes, the GD WILL claim they were planted, the government will seek the maximum sentence and get it from a friendly judge, and the GD will paint their fallen comrade as a martyr to the corrupt system (which... it is, in all honesty).
The real problem is that they really are in a position to destabilize Greece further.
What's the alternative? These guys have ministers that punch opposing female ministers in the face, they've murdered dozens of immigrants and gays and beaten dozens perhaps hundreds more, one of their members stabbed a leftist hip-hop artist on the street. The organisation is out of control, sympathizers within the police were colluding with them to prevent them from being brought to justice, either the government launched a massive crackdown, or they'd have had a civil war on their hands anyway, because Golden Dawn want one. At least this way much of the party leadership and command structure will be locked away when GD kick things off, as they always intended to.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
BaronIveagh wrote: Suppressing a political party is absolutely the worst thing they they could do, particularly one as popular as GD. (Yes, I'm aware they're Greek Nazis)
Let me forecast how this plays out: They WILL find that the guns were used in all sorts of horrible crimes, the GD WILL claim they were planted, the government will seek the maximum sentence and get it from a friendly judge, and the GD will paint their fallen comrade as a martyr to the corrupt system (which... it is, in all honesty).
The real problem is that they really are in a position to destabilize Greece further.
Did you post something similar about the Muslim Brotherhood getting outlawed in Egypt?
Muslim Brotherhood. Not shedding a damn tear.
Golden Dawn. First time I ever heard of them. Question though. It was a public election right?
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
BaronIveagh wrote: Suppressing a political party is absolutely the worst thing they they could do, particularly one as popular as GD. (Yes, I'm aware they're Greek Nazis)
Let me forecast how this plays out: They WILL find that the guns were used in all sorts of horrible crimes, the GD WILL claim they were planted, the government will seek the maximum sentence and get it from a friendly judge, and the GD will paint their fallen comrade as a martyr to the corrupt system (which... it is, in all honesty).
The real problem is that they really are in a position to destabilize Greece further.
What's the alternative? These guys have ministers that punch opposing female ministers in the face, they've murdered dozens of immigrants and gays and beaten dozens perhaps hundreds more, one of their members stabbed a leftist hip-hop artist on the street. The organisation is out of control, sympathizers within the police were colluding with them to prevent them from being brought to justice, either the government launched a massive crackdown, or they'd have had a civil war on their hands anyway, because Golden Dawn want one. At least this way much of the party leadership and command structure will be locked away when GD kick things off, as they always intended to.
Holy gakking Jesus, so, basically, the plotline for ''Z''?
For anyone who hasn't seen Z, please do so in all haste. It's the last great French movie (lol, 1969), and the best political drama I have ever seen. It was a great, loud, ''Feth You'' to the Greek military junta of 67-74, opening on the words "Any ressemblance to real events or personnalities, dead or alive, is not accidental. It is VOLUNTARY.''
Edit: Damn, just rethinking about that movie is giving me goosebumps. I know what I'll be doing until the early hours of the morning ^^
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/29 04:33:35
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
Yodhrin wrote:
What's the alternative? These guys have ministers that punch opposing female ministers in the face, they've murdered dozens of immigrants and gays and beaten dozens perhaps hundreds more, one of their members stabbed a leftist hip-hop artist on the street.
So they're Republicans?
In all seriousness though, we have one random nutjob claim to be a member. Not that they told him to do it, but just that he was a member. The Greeks have used that one guy to claim the entire party is a criminal organization and arrest everyone of any importance in it. A lot of what you wrote above has never actually been confirmed (though he did slap that woman) and at least some of it was part of a complaint lodged by the communist party.
If a guy shot Madonna and claimed to be a Democrat, is that grounds to arrest the President? (Yes, I know there are Republicans who feel it would be, and might even give it a whirl if they thought they might get away with it).
.
Jihadin wrote:Muslim Brotherhood. Not shedding a damn tear.
Golden Dawn. First time I ever heard of them. Question though. It was a public election right?
Yeah, it was. Golden Dawn is Greece's third most popular political party, according to BBC. Originally they won 21 seats, or about 10% of the vote, but in run offs they lost three.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2013/09/29 05:08:08
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
BaronIveagh wrote: In all seriousness though, we have one random nutjob claim to be a member. Not that they told him to do it, but just that he was a member. The Greeks have used that one guy to claim the entire party is a criminal organization and arrest everyone of any importance in it. A lot of what you wrote above has never actually been confirmed (though he did slap that woman) and at least some of it was part of a complaint lodged by the communist party.
Most political corruption is never confirmed. This is how politics work in countries like Greece (and I don't think anyone sensible is proposing the government isn't corrupt as well). Golden Dawn is a pretty crazy organization and a lot of their craziness is recorded. A Golden Dawn member hit a woman three times during a political debate on national television. In another incident, a Golden Dawn member attempted to assault the Mayor of Athens and hit a 12 year old girl instead.
Also, its not one random nutjob claiming to be a member that sparked this immediate event. A random nutjob killed a popular artist who was critical of Golden Dawn's political positions, who was subsequently killed by another Golden Dawn member when the investigation was heating up. The suspect in the murder of the murderer has been confirmed to have been in regular contact with Golden Dawn's leadership immediately before and after the killing.
Golden Dawn is dirty, like the rest of Greek politics.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/29 05:26:58
When an organized crime cartel utilizes violence and the threat of violence to seize political power from their government in order to advocate hatred, discrimination, and race based violence, they should be rounded up. It's not like there is a shortage of racist, sexist, anti-Muslim, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, intolerant, bigoted, or just plain ignorant political parties, especially in systems where smaller parties actually have a chance to get members into office. There's no reason people can't have vile, reprehensible beliefs. Their ability to seek public office in order to have those beliefs influence national progress is something which must be protected in any representative government. However, when organizations of such people pool their money and their influence in order to direct, support, and perpetrate criminal activity, they must be treated like any other criminal organization: hunted down and dragged, in irons, into the harsh light of day.
When an organized crime cartel utilizes violence and the threat of violence to seize political power from their government in order to advocate hatred, discrimination, and race based violence, they should be rounded up. It's not like there is a shortage of racist, sexist, anti-Muslim, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, intolerant, bigoted, or just plain ignorant political parties, especially in systems where smaller parties actually have a chance to get members into office. There's no reason people can't have vile, reprehensible beliefs. Their ability to seek public office in order to have those beliefs influence national progress is something which must be protected in any representative government. However, when organizations of such people pool their money and their influence in order to direct, support, and perpetrate criminal activity, they must be treated like any other criminal organization: hunted down and dragged, in irons, into the harsh light of day.
Have an exalt Sir.
Yes we have "nutjobs" here in Greece, with small groups fighting off the spotlight. We always had. It was like the village fool. What Golden Dawn did was to gather all sort of dangerous people under their roof and give them targets for their homicidal tendencies. Former drugdealers, club bouncers, greek mafia enforcers and hooligans. They are in the process of making an army out of their followers. With the mute support (and vocal too) of large portions of the Police and Church.
You shouldn't be worried about the one bullet with your name on it, Boldric. You should be worried about the ones labelled "to whom it may concern"-from Blackadder goes Forth!
2013/09/29 10:30:18
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
When an organized crime cartel utilizes violence and the threat of violence to seize political power from their government in order to advocate hatred, discrimination, and race based violence, they should be rounded up. It's not like there is a shortage of racist, sexist, anti-Muslim, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, intolerant, bigoted, or just plain ignorant political parties, especially in systems where smaller parties actually have a chance to get members into office. There's no reason people can't have vile, reprehensible beliefs. Their ability to seek public office in order to have those beliefs influence national progress is something which must be protected in any representative government. However, when organizations of such people pool their money and their influence in order to direct, support, and perpetrate criminal activity, they must be treated like any other criminal organization: hunted down and dragged, in irons, into the harsh light of day.
Have an exalt Sir.
Yes we have "nutjobs" here in Greece, with small groups fighting off the spotlight. We always had. It was like the village fool. What Golden Dawn did was to gather all sort of dangerous people under their roof and give them targets for their homicidal tendencies. Former drugdealers, club bouncers, greek mafia enforcers and hooligans. They are in the process of making an army out of their followers. With the mute support (and vocal too) of large portions of the Police and Church.
That was my read on things as an interested external observer; these guys aren't UKIP, Republicans, or even the BNP; these guys are National Front extremists or Klansmen, running a gang of organised criminals and thugs. I just hope you guys can deal with them without the situation going right down the crapper, the Greek people have had to deal with more than enough rubbish in recent years, they deserve a break.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2013/09/29 10:34:46
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
Jimsolo wrote: However, when organizations of such people pool their money and their influence in order to direct, support, and perpetrate criminal activity, they must be treated like any other criminal organization: hunted down and dragged, in irons, into the harsh light of day.
Provided you have enough evidence to constitute probable cause, I'm sure you meant to say in there somewhere.
2013/09/29 14:04:15
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
When an organized crime cartel utilizes violence and the threat of violence to seize political power from their government in order to advocate hatred, discrimination, and race based violence, they should be rounded up.
So, when are they rounding up the Tea Party?
In reality, they're trying to go after Golden Dawn via a legal loophole. Under the Greek Constitution, it's illegal to ban a political party. However, under the Greek Penal Code, if 3% of an organizations members are criminals, then they're considered a criminal organization.
Apparently police in Greece have just prevented the Army from protesting against the arrest of the GDMPs. That's not a good sign.
I can't find any mention of the murderer being killed anywhere. I have found out that his connection to GD was he was a worker at a GD run soup kitchen.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
thenoobbomb wrote: The killer of that left-wing rapper participated in Golden Dawn protests and other actions, too.
Possibly. Without proof though we'd have to consider that rumor, but entirely possible, even likely considering he worked for them as a cook, I guess. What we do have is that a soup kitchen worker appears to have shanked a rapper in a post football match brawl. He confessed to it, and told police that his attack on the rapper had no relationship to GD, but that he personally did in fact have a relationship to GD.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2013/09/29 16:58:56
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
When an organized crime cartel utilizes violence and the threat of violence to seize political power from their government in order to advocate hatred, discrimination, and race based violence, they should be rounded up.
So, when are they rounding up the Tea Party?
For all the problems there are with the Tea Party, murder, extortion, and collusion aren't among them.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Yes. The number of people who act like Greek politics are US politics shocks me. We're talking about a system where parties range from less corrupt on one side to totally corrupt on the other and one made the massive mistake of letting their corruption become publicly noticeable (cause Godwin must be invoked the similarities to the Nazi party in Golden Dawns actions are pretty stark). Comparing them to the Tea Party, who at their worst are just a bunch loons, is beyond silly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/29 17:02:10
I think the overall point was that rule of law doesn't go out the window just because it's convenient or the transgressions are patently obvious, especially in cases involving the de facto banning/criminalizing of a political party.
Maybe Greece has a legal code that allows them to arrest members of an organization simply for being members of an organization, with no need to provide probable cause linking them to actual crimes, I dunno.
2013/09/29 18:19:35
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
Seaward wrote: I think the overall point was that rule of law doesn't go out the window just because it's convenient or the transgressions are patently obvious, especially in cases involving the de facto banning/criminalizing of a political party.
Whoever claimed the government wasn't corrupt too? They are. Golden Dawn made the mistake of being to overt with what they were doing and now their rivals have all the excuse needed to get rid of them (granted, considering their politics I'm not shedding a tear. They're dirty even by dirty's standards). This is how politics work there. Throwing out comparisons to the Tea Party and US politics is facetious. We can talk about how things should work but that isn't really going to bear much on how they do work.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/29 18:23:20
Ahtman wrote:
For all the problems there are with the Tea Party, murder, extortion, and collusion aren't among them.
Extortion isn't, anyway. Members have been tied to arsons, murders, bombings, and disorderly conduct. I think if we looked, we'd find that 3% of the Tea Party are criminals. Just as we'd find that 3% of the Democratic Party are criminals, and 3% of the republican party are criminals.
LordofHats wrote:Yes. The number of people who act like Greek politics are US politics shocks me. We're talking about a system where parties range from less corrupt on one side to totally corrupt on the other and one made the massive mistake of letting their corruption become publicly noticeable (cause Godwin must be invoked the similarities to the Nazi party in Golden Dawns actions are pretty stark). Comparing them to the Tea Party, who at their worst are just a bunch loons, is beyond silly.
You must not follow what the US politicians have been up to lately. They're pretty dirty, but unlike the Greeks they had the smarts to make it legal. They've been making it illegal to sue various corporations and illegal for your doctor to inform you that you've been poisoned by the activities of certain oil and gas companies, and collecting millions of dollars from said companies.
And, no, it wasn't the publicly noticeable part. That they've all been doing. It's the fact they're afraid that if things continue to go south, more people will join GD, and eventually a GD led military coup will follow.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/29 20:48:07
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2013/09/29 20:56:13
Subject: Re:Greece starts crackdown on Golden Dawn
BaronIveagh wrote: You must not follow what the US politicians have been up to lately. They're pretty dirty, but unlike the Greeks they had the smarts to make it legal. They've been making it illegal to sue various corporations and illegal for your doctor to inform you that you've been poisoned by the activities of certain oil and gas companies, and collecting millions of dollars from said companies.
That's not the kind of corruption going on in Greece. Political divisions within the military and police don't exist in the US. Parties don't raise their own personal armies and we certainly don't see US politicians starting riots in the streets. That all the corruption within such parties is in fact tied to party leadership by evidence (which reading articles on the subject would reveal) shows that it's not individuals committing the acts but the party itself orchestrating them.
We can all whine about the political gaming of the system in the US, but don't compare it to Greece. It's ridiculous equating substantially worse problems in another country with our own.
LordofHats wrote: Political divisions within the military and police don't exist in the US. Parties don't raise their own personal armies and we certainly don't see US politicians starting riots in the streets.
Actually the US Army held war games covering it the Tea Party did exactly this and took over a major US city, in the event the governor was unable or unwilling to deploy the National Guard.
Political Divisions in the US Military and Police:
While not as big an issue with the military, police are, in fact, another matter.
The Tea Party does, indeed, have several affiliated organizations that are in fact, quite willing to kill. The FBI has been having a grand old time rounding them up and arresting them for stock piling illegal weapons and explosives.
While you are correct that we have not seen US politicians starting riots in the streets, it's less a matter of inclination than one of opportunity. The US is nto to the 'rioting in the streets' point, yet. That and most of them don't have the balls. This is partially due to the fact they don;'t actually believe most of the garbage they spew.
That all the corruption within such parties is in fact tied to party leadership by evidence (which reading articles on the subject would reveal) shows that it's not individuals committing the acts but the party itself orchestrating them.
You know, I've read quite a few articles on this, and not seen your proof, so, source please.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
I haven't really been bothered with this, but are people actually trying to compare the Tea Party to these guys now? Have we gone that far off the deep end?
