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It is a unit in Imperial Armour 12.

It is a storm eagle with 2 TL-LC, a 4 shot TL-ML, and can get a TL-MM or CML. When it comes on you know it was there. It also has DS, strafing run, 4HP, ceramite, and PotMS.

Is there value in a TLLC & TML loadout to maximize your range advantage?

The only drawback to TLMM & TLAC is the 12" optimal range band.

 minigun762 wrote:
Is there value in a TLLC & TML loadout to maximize your range advantage?

The only drawback to TLMM & TLAC is the 12" optimal range band.

It's tough to account for additional range off the tabletop. However, the Stormraven (being a flyer) has quite a reach the turn it arrives, giving it melta range to the entire board. Pushing too far initially will obviously restrict your movement options later, however, and it's generally best to move the minimum distance to reach your target.

Maybe I am missing something in the mathematics of this one. First, the results cannot be strictly added together because they are joint probabilities.

What you really want is the chance to get at least 1 Destroyed - Explodes result (I am ignoring Hull Points for now)

Example is the Quad Gun @ BS 4
A single shot has a 8/9 chance to hit, a 1/6 chance to pen and a 1/6 chance to destroy. On aggregate that is a 2.4% chance PER shot.

The chance that at least 1 of the four shots managing this result is the inverse of no shots managing this result - which has probability 1-(1-0.024)^4 = 100% - 90.4%

That means the quad gun has ~10% chance to manage at least 1 destroyed result.

The same for the Flakk Missiles at S7 AP 4
They have a slightly lesser chance to hit than a Quad gun which equates to:

1 - (1 - (1/3*1/6*1/6))^4 = 7.2%

Maybe I am missing a Signum in there (I do not have the new SM codex) but even so I must be missing something for these calculations.

Yes, ST 7 AP 4 sucks horribly against AV 12 fliers. You need Tau missileside volumes of fire to make it effective. The Imperium really can't throw that kind of fire out with skyfire.

 calypso2ts wrote:
Maybe I am missing something in the mathematics of this one. First, the results cannot be strictly added together because they are joint probabilities.

What you really want is the chance to get at least 1 Destroyed - Explodes result (I am ignoring Hull Points for now)

Example is the Quad Gun @ BS 4
A single shot has a 8/9 chance to hit, a 1/6 chance to pen and a 1/6 chance to destroy. On aggregate that is a 2.4% chance PER shot.

The chance that at least 1 of the four shots managing this result is the inverse of no shots managing this result - which has probability 1-(1-0.024)^4 = 100% - 90.4%

That means the quad gun has ~10% chance to manage at least 1 destroyed result.

The same for the Flakk Missiles at S7 AP 4
They have a slightly lesser chance to hit than a Quad gun which equates to:

1 - (1 - (1/3*1/6*1/6))^4 = 7.2%

Maybe I am missing a Signum in there (I do not have the new SM codex) but even so I must be missing something for these calculations.

This is a good point. I am not quite a mathematician, and I do not know how to account for not needing more than a single destroyed result.

It's perhaps worth noting that the Flakk missiles I calculated have Tank Hunters, giving them roughly a 3/10 chance to pen (as opposed to the 1/6 you used).

I also wrote down your equation. I'll be sure to use it in my future mathhammering.

ALSO, I think you left out the invul save of the Heldrake, which is pretty crucial in my math.

http://mathhammer40k.com/

This is a nice site if you don't want to think about it or actually do the work.

magodedisco wrote:

This is a good point. I am not quite a mathematician, and I do not know how to account for not needing more than a single destroyed result.

It's perhaps worth noting that the Flakk missiles I calculated have Tank Hunters, giving them roughly a 3/10 chance to pen (as opposed to the 1/6 you used).

I also wrote down your equation. I'll be sure to use it in my future mathhammering.

ALSO, I think you left out the invul save of the Heldrake, which is pretty crucial in my math.

I did leave out the 5++ on the Heldrake - with the 1/3 chance to save any result it comes to and Tank Hunters on the Flakk:

Quad Gun: 6.4%
Flakk Missiles: 9.5%

Those numbers mean that your list just go barbequed.

Yeah they are comparing HP stripping weapons on exposion results. If you want to nuke a hellturkey you want a stormraven (TL-LC, TL-MM, and 2 Storm Missiles) gives a 44.5% chance to explode the hellturkey in 1 shooting phase (this is even including the 5++). Stormraven really is THE flyer to put into a bike army. The only things even comparable is a crimson hunter and anything else you can list is only half as likely to kill a hellturkey. Funny considering the thread...

Martel732 wrote:
Those numbers mean that your list just go barbequed.

I disagree. While he came up with
Quad Gun: 6.4%
Flakk Missiles: 9.5%

I came up with:
Quad Gun .07
Flakk Missiles .09

These are very close (even with my crude calculations), and the point of the thread remains.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ansacs wrote:
Yeah they are comparing HP stripping weapons on exposion results. If you want to nuke a hellturkey you want a stormraven (TL-LC, TL-MM, and 2 Storm Missiles) gives a 44.5% chance to explode the hellturkey in 1 shooting phase (this is even including the 5++). Stormraven really is THE flyer to put into a bike army. The only things even comparable is a crimson hunter and anything else you can list is only half as likely to kill a hellturkey. Funny considering the thread...

Exactly! Combine this with the durability of a Stormraven (mostly due to its being a flyer) and its transport capacity and you're looking at a monster of a unit, despite their lack of popularity or respect.

The price tag is still too high. And it's not a TFC.

magodedisco wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
Is there value in a TLLC & TML loadout to maximize your range advantage?

The only drawback to TLMM & TLAC is the 12" optimal range band.

It's tough to account for additional range off the tabletop. However, the Stormraven (being a flyer) has quite a reach the turn it arrives, giving it melta range to the entire board. Pushing too far initially will obviously restrict your movement options later, however, and it's generally best to move the minimum distance to reach your target.

I think the ability to hang back out of range of many guns is a significant advantage.
Really let's you threaten the entire board.

Martel732 wrote:
The price tag is still too high. And it's not a TFC.

Now that is actually a fair point. If they had put the stormraven into the elites slot they probably would have been more popular. To be fair though you should think about 2x TFC and 1x Stormraven. Especially if you find hell-turkeys give you problems then just 1 stormraven can go a long way to remedy that problem.

You can get 2X TFC and 2X Stormraven by allying with yourself.

QFT, you can even make the stormraven IWND using Iron Hands.

Well I'll just say that the Raven saved my butt in my game earlier. There are still many armies that struggle to deal with them, and a turn 5 drop for some Scouts from the bird won me the game.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Well I'll just say that the Raven saved my butt in my game earlier. There are still many armies that struggle to deal with them, and a turn 5 drop for some Scouts from the bird won me the game.

I have recently added the very same unit to my army. ATSKNF on such a cheap scoring unit just seems fantastic.

Can you field a Firestorm Redoubt in normal 40k games?

Skabfang wrote:
Can you field a Firestorm Redoubt in normal 40k games?

You sure can.