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2013/10/01 14:11:34
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
The house PASSED numerous budgets... Reid/Senate refused to take it up for vote.
All that's left is to pass Continuing Resolutions... which is essentially, fund the government based on last year's spending levels + adj increase. The kicker is that both parties, since the dawn of time, will introduce policy changes... and here we are.
So... again... what's wrong with it?
To my foreigner eyes, that is exactly what is wrong with it. They are risking damage to the country and certainly causing duress to several hundred thousand American families because they wan't changes to something that isn't actually related to this CR...
You're right about that... both parties weren't very serious about working together to formulate/pass actual budgets. The whole budgeting cycle has broken down.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/10/01 14:11:39
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Kilkrazy wrote: How does the government get opened up again?
Does the Tea Party or the Democratic Party have to cave in?
one or the other, basically the house has to pass a bill and the senate has to approve it. Last update I saw, the house was passing a measure to appoint a conference of people to meet with a group from the senate to start negotiating over what should be in the bill
I am thinking that this "Tea" they are spouting about comes from Long Island.
Of all the races of the universe the Squats have the longest memories and the shortest tempers. They are uncouth, unpredictably violent, and frequently drunk. Overall, I'm glad they're on our side!
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"Madness is like gravity... All you need is a little push."
Forar wrote: A brief shutdown (according to what I've read, they're usually only a couple of days long, the longest to date was 3 weeks) is unlikely to be the end of the world.
But if the GOP keeps playing chicken with the debt ceiling...
if by playing chicken you mean refusing to increase the debt ceiling without a reduction in spending or something that looks like a balanced budget
Nah, I meant what I said.
You guys can worry about the deficit when you aren't recovering from a recession and the global economy stops being willing to effectively pay you to take on your debt.
Dick Cheney wrote:You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.
2013/10/01 14:24:58
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Forar wrote: A brief shutdown (according to what I've read, they're usually only a couple of days long, the longest to date was 3 weeks) is unlikely to be the end of the world.
But if the GOP keeps playing chicken with the debt ceiling...
if by playing chicken you mean refusing to increase the debt ceiling without a reduction in spending or something that looks like a balanced budget
I'm a liberal dirty foreigner and even I know that the debt ceiling is used to pay the debt that you've already taken in, not as a means to create new debt...
2013/10/01 14:26:53
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
ironicsilence wrote: the large majority of the people that live in the US dont have the first clue what the debt ceiling is for
I thought it was the roof of the Capitol buildings and they're raising it so their inflated egos can all fit in the rooms as they sit in a circle and play a giant political (and probably literal) game of dutch rudder while not actually accomplishing anything beyond that game.
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2013/10/01 14:32:08
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
The fact that the US has two separate mechanisms, one to pass a budget, the other to approve to fund that budget, is 'pants on head' crazy.
If this garbage is going to continue to be an issue, the next budget passed should have an equivalent debt ceiling extension included as well (assuming such legislation could be entwined).
Of course, that assumes a budget gets passed again. I'm curious to see how many years the US can live effectively 'paycheque to paycheque' a quarter at a time with CRs... It's a perverse curiosity, and kind of sad at the same time.
2013/10/01 14:54:53
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Republicans like shooting themselves in the foot time and time again. Of course, the Democrats do this often enough as it is, but the GOP has been really, really trying to leave a bloody stump behind and call it progress.
Tying Obamacare to legislation to fund the government is bad. If I was a Republican, I would of waited for Obamacare to be fully enacted and then watch to see if it train wrecks.
Perhaps the GOP is too scared of the alternative, that it does succeed and thus validates other policies of Democrats (like *gasp*, spend money).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 14:55:19
Forar wrote: The fact that the US has two separate mechanisms, one to pass a budget, the other to approve to fund that budget, is 'pants on head' crazy.
If this garbage is going to continue to be an issue, the next budget passed should have an equivalent debt ceiling extension included as well (assuming such legislation could be entwined).
Of course, that assumes a budget gets passed again. I'm curious to see how many years the US can live effectively 'paycheque to paycheque' a quarter at a time with CRs... It's a perverse curiosity, and kind of sad at the same time.
Actually... all of this is compounded because an actual budget hasn't been passed.
Here’s a simple question: Why are we currently funding the federal government through a series of short-term measures known as “continuing resolutions”?
...
...
...
...
keeping thinking...
...
...
..
Answer: The current budgeting process has completely broken down in recent years. The two most responsible for that breakdown are President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
For three consecutive years, 2010, 2011, and 2012... the Democrat-controlled Senate did not pass a budget bill because Reid knew that it would be a political liability to do so. Passing a budget that detailed the Democrats’ plans for spending and revenue as official policy would have exposed Reid and his colleagues.
In 2013, the Senate finally passed a budget in which called for even more tax increases. Remember this is a couple of months after various tax cuts expired, so the political reality at the time was that this was DoA and both sides knew it.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/10/01 15:51:28
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
2) Forced the Congress Critters and appointed officials into the SAME exchange with the same subsidies calculus as normal citizen (the Vitter Amendment).
I love how 'Congress should be more like business' people complain when Congress acts like business and provides health insurance for their employees. The 'normal' citizen gets their health insurance through their job and if your job offers health insurance, there is no subsidy.
3) Finally, fully fund the rest of government w/o the usual Republican cry to reduce spending.
What was so bad and ridiculous about this?
That is because they already got their reduced spending. The ridiculousness is giving the Republican demands any sort of equivalence. They keep on throwing temper tantrums and kick and scream until they get their way, especially when they already got their way a bit before.
..
Answer: The current budgeting process has completely broken down in recent years. The two most responsible for that breakdown are President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
No, the people responsible for the breakdown are the Tea Party and Republicans that are determined to ruin the economy. They are basically throwing a temper tantrum that they lost the election.
so the political reality at the time was that this was DoA and both sides knew it.
And this is WHY the Republicans are responsible. The Republicans keep on sending stuff that is DOA to the Senate without any attempt to compromise.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/01 15:57:08
2013/10/01 16:01:22
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
umm the tea party folks are doing exactly what they got elected to do. I'm not supporting it or saying its right...its just an elected official going through with what he campaigned for
In general, since the temper tantrum of the first obama election, republicans have been keeping everything they can from happening. We didn't have these problems under republican presidents because the democrats aren't dicks.
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Lt. Coldfire wrote:Seems to me that you should be refereeing and handing out red cards--like a boss.
juraigamer wrote: In general, since the temper tantrum of the first obama election, republicans have been keeping everything they can from happening. We didn't have these problems under republican presidents because the democrats aren't dicks.
To be fair, there were also unicorns making us pancakes every morning.
Over in the base dimension, however, things were a little different.
2013/10/01 16:13:13
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
2) Forced the Congress Critters and appointed officials into the SAME exchange with the same subsidies calculus as normal citizen (the Vitter Amendment).
I love how 'Congress should be more like business' people complain when Congress acts like business and provides health insurance for their employees. The 'normal' citizen gets their health insurance through their job and if your job offers health insurance, there is no subsidy.
That doesn't compute man. All of this is occuring is because Democrats refused to have Congress treated like ordinary citizens with Obamacare exchange subsidies, and ordinary citizens like businesses on delay of the Obamacare mandate.
3) Finally, fully fund the rest of government w/o the usual Republican cry to reduce spending.
What was so bad and ridiculous about this?
That is because they already got their reduced spending. The ridiculousness is giving the Republican demands any sort of equivalence. They keep on throwing temper tantrums and kick and scream until they get their way, especially when they already got their way a bit before.
Huh? The offered to keep the same rate as last year+adjustment to fund the rest of the government. This is what the D's wanted... in the past, the R's would be trying to cut spending.
..
Answer: The current budgeting process has completely broken down in recent years. The two most responsible for that breakdown are President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
No, the people responsible for the breakdown are the Tea Party and Republicans that are determined to ruin the economy. They are basically throwing a temper tantrum that they lost the election.
Right... that's a plan. Republicans WANT to RUIN the economy. Good chatting with ya. At least you didn't call us "terrorist" and "wanting to paint your house in pepto-pink".
so the political reality at the time was that this was DoA and both sides knew it.
And this is WHY the Republicans are responsible. The Republicans keep on sending stuff that is DOA to the Senate without any attempt to compromise.
No... Senate did the same fething thing. They're BOTH accountable. Laying this all on the Republican's feet is disingenuous at best and crazypants at the worst.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/01 16:14:00
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/10/01 16:20:39
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Forar wrote: The fact that the US has two separate mechanisms, one to pass a budget, the other to approve to fund that budget, is 'pants on head' crazy.
If this garbage is going to continue to be an issue, the next budget passed should have an equivalent debt ceiling extension included as well (assuming such legislation could be entwined).
Of course, that assumes a budget gets passed again. I'm curious to see how many years the US can live effectively 'paycheque to paycheque' a quarter at a time with CRs... It's a perverse curiosity, and kind of sad at the same time.
Yoyu're misreading. Thats not how it works. They pass a budget. There is not vote to approve to fund the budget.
Unfortunately there hasn't been a budget in years. The Democratic Senate is scared to death of passing a budget.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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2013/10/01 16:31:52
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
2) Forced the Congress Critters and appointed officials into the SAME exchange with the same subsidies calculus as normal citizen (the Vitter Amendment).
I love how 'Congress should be more like business' people complain when Congress acts like business and provides health insurance for their employees. The 'normal' citizen gets their health insurance through their job and if your job offers health insurance, there is no subsidy.
That doesn't compute man. All of this is occuring is because Democrats refused to have Congress treated like ordinary citizens with Obamacare exchange subsidies, and ordinary citizens like businesses on delay of the Obamacare mandate.
3) Finally, fully fund the rest of government w/o the usual Republican cry to reduce spending.
What was so bad and ridiculous about this?
That is because they already got their reduced spending. The ridiculousness is giving the Republican demands any sort of equivalence. They keep on throwing temper tantrums and kick and scream until they get their way, especially when they already got their way a bit before.
Huh? The offered to keep the same rate as last year+adjustment to fund the rest of the government. This is what the D's wanted... in the past, the R's would be trying to cut spending.
..
Answer: The current budgeting process has completely broken down in recent years. The two most responsible for that breakdown are President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
No, the people responsible for the breakdown are the Tea Party and Republicans that are determined to ruin the economy. They are basically throwing a temper tantrum that they lost the election.
Right... that's a plan. Republicans WANT to RUIN the economy. Good chatting with ya. At least you didn't call us "terrorist" and "wanting to paint your house in pepto-pink".
so the political reality at the time was that this was DoA and both sides knew it.
And this is WHY the Republicans are responsible. The Republicans keep on sending stuff that is DOA to the Senate without any attempt to compromise.
No... Senate did the same fething thing. They're BOTH accountable. Laying this all on the Republican's feet is disingenuous at best and crazypants at the worst.
No Whembly, all of this is happening because the R's will do anything to stop Obamacare. Why? Because they saw that in Massachussetts once people got a taste of Romneycare; they liked it a lot. Once that happens the R's will be pushed into the wilderness just like the New Deal Democrats did to the R's of the time. This is about survival, and the R's know the clock is ticking.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 16:35:02
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2013/10/01 16:36:06
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
2) Forced the Congress Critters and appointed officials into the SAME exchange with the same subsidies calculus as normal citizen (the Vitter Amendment).
I love how 'Congress should be more like business' people complain when Congress acts like business and provides health insurance for their employees. The 'normal' citizen gets their health insurance through their job and if your job offers health insurance, there is no subsidy.
That doesn't compute man. All of this is occuring is because Democrats refused to have Congress treated like ordinary citizens with Obamacare exchange subsidies, and ordinary citizens like businesses on delay of the Obamacare mandate.
3) Finally, fully fund the rest of government w/o the usual Republican cry to reduce spending.
What was so bad and ridiculous about this?
That is because they already got their reduced spending. The ridiculousness is giving the Republican demands any sort of equivalence. They keep on throwing temper tantrums and kick and scream until they get their way, especially when they already got their way a bit before.
Huh? The offered to keep the same rate as last year+adjustment to fund the rest of the government. This is what the D's wanted... in the past, the R's would be trying to cut spending.
..
Answer: The current budgeting process has completely broken down in recent years. The two most responsible for that breakdown are President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
No, the people responsible for the breakdown are the Tea Party and Republicans that are determined to ruin the economy. They are basically throwing a temper tantrum that they lost the election.
Right... that's a plan. Republicans WANT to RUIN the economy. Good chatting with ya. At least you didn't call us "terrorist" and "wanting to paint your house in pepto-pink".
so the political reality at the time was that this was DoA and both sides knew it.
And this is WHY the Republicans are responsible. The Republicans keep on sending stuff that is DOA to the Senate without any attempt to compromise.
No... Senate did the same fething thing. They're BOTH accountable. Laying this all on the Republican's feet is disingenuous at best and crazypants at the worst.
No Whembly, all of this is happening because the R's will do anything to stop Obamacare. Why? Because they saw that in Massachussetts once people got a taste of Romneycare; they liked it a lot. Once that happens the R's will be pushed into the wilderness just like the New Deal Democrats did to the R's of the time. This is about survival, and the R's know the clock is ticking.
Survival?
Nah... it's just differences in opinions.
The majority ALWAYS keeps saying that the other party is dying. It's all cyclical.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 17:03:30
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2013/10/01 17:09:50
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Manchu wrote: but also "destroy the federal government."
What. The. feth?
That's crazy pants man... that's like calling them terrorist.
While I appreciate your constant attempts to play the victim on behalf of Republicans -- it's the current GOP party line after all and I know you want to loyally tow it -- my comment isn't at all like calling Tea Partiers terrorists. The libertarian view of government is not compatible with reality. I'm sure you will disagree BUT just keep in mind what is going on this very moment -- the Tea Party has taken the federal government hostage over politics. The functioning of the federal government is not a proportionate bargaining chip in this debate -- EXCEPT that it is for the Tea Party. There are people, centrists mostly but also a fair few spin doctors, saying that no one wants a government shut down, that for the GOP this is a necessary evil. That is absolutely false. As noted in the OP, the Tea Party is glad to shut down the federal government.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/01 17:11:50
Manchu has rather...esoteric views on libertarians. It appears to be a fundamental misapprehension of the ideology that's remarkably impermeable to fact.
2013/10/01 17:28:35
Subject: Re:Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Seaward wrote: Manchu has rather...esoteric views on libertarians. It appears to be a fundamental misapprehension of the ideology that's remarkably impermeable to fact.
I didn't want to comment on it, but his viewpoint of what a libertarian is, and my viewpoint of what a libertarian is are vastly different... I
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2013/10/01 17:29:26
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Seaward -- you're hardly one to evoke facts given your justification of the Tea Tantrum is that Democrats hypothetically could do the same thing one day.
Alfndrate -- And ... ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 17:30:55
Manchu wrote: Seaward -- you're hardly one to evoke facts given your justification of the Tea Tantrum is that Democrats hypothetically could do the same thing one day.
You may want to start reading posts more carefully.
My justification of the "Tea Tantrum" is that it's the only shot in the locker. I've also called it stupid.
My comments regarding Democrats hypothetically pulling the same thing some day are all related to getting our lovable left-of-center folks to promise to remember what they said now then.
Your fundamental misunderstanding of libertarianism has little to do with either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 17:32:48
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At least you didn't call us "terrorist" and "wanting to paint your house in pepto-pink". 
