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 fullmetaljacket wrote:
Hi everyone, im looking for advice from as many people as i can, especially if you are a marine or any kind of service member yourself.
I have always wanted to be a marine, and at the moment im a second year college student at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Ive made the decision to to go on a military leave and enlist in the marine corps and continue college after my service. Through out my 1st year at Cal Poly Ive held many jobs but basically at least 2 at a time... I rarely hang out with friends, go to parties, or even take a minute to rest...I work so many jobs to pay for fixing my car, food and housing, other than that i am collecting loans. I came to college instead of enlisting right away to get the college lifestyle at a younger age, but as of right now its not what i expected. I'm not complaining about my life because i know many more people have it allot worse off than me. I feel that since i was planning on enlisting after college anyway, i could do just do it now, and then when i head back to college i can continue my classes and studying with support of the military behind me. Service in the military will also support my future career interests as a law enforcement park ranger, game warden, fire fighter or maybe even FBI or something. I feel Im making the right choice, I want to serve my country, i know the risk Im taking and i am willing to accept it.
Any advice, comments, opinions, or criticisms are gladly accepted.
Tony A.

Okay kid. I'm Active Duty Marine, and I'll lay it down for you in a way that I think will make sense, even though your conditions are different from mine. First, a little back-story. I joined right out of high school, plus six months of unemployment while I was waiting. I had never worked a day in my life, never played sports, had a girlfriend, or had more than a single friend. I spent most of my time playing Adult Games, reading Manga and playing Mahjong online (that's still what I do, curiously)I was literally on par with those slimy NEETs in the library. I still take pride in that, and nothing will make me regret my life before the Marine Corps. It was gloriously relaxed and easy. I joined the Marines for a multitude of reasons, but the main one was that I wanted to wear a flak and kevlar and go on field ops and get down and dirty all the time. You know, cool stuff like that. I still get off on that stuff. I also wanted a paycheck, and I wanted to support all of my NEET hobbies, which has worked out wonderfully. I also liked the idea of being stationed in Japan, because I would only be short plane ride to the things I love so much, and possibly suicide. Of course, I wanted the glory and pride of being better than the rest. That comes naturally for me. I don't even have to explain that, because it's such an integral part of my life.

The Marine Corps is not what you're expecting. Real talk, it's a bunch of violent drunks, Gym rats, and Stellar Marines all crowded together, getting in trouble with the law, usually with the assistance of alcohol. This leads to it being one of the most versatile and diverse melting pots of the American population, which is wonderful. It's easy to make friends with complete strangers, because you already have something in common, no matter where you're from, or what your background is. Marines, regardess of rank, age, race or MOS know exactly what's necessary for mission accomplishment. Tell a bunch of Marines to go dig a ditch, and they'll get it done. Tell them to pull a a pack and drain the transmission, and they'll get it done. Tell a bunch of Marines to engage enemy targets at 450 Yards, and they'll get it done. I'm not sure if that level of teamwork and natural compatibility is common in other branches, but from the limited of time I spent around Army dog-faces, it doesn't seem like it.

It's still not what you're expecting. I can't talk about working, or your day to day schedule, because it's different for everyone. Just show up and do what you're told, and stand at Parade rest when you think it's right. Put out for PT, keep your uniforms squared away, and don't leave the barracks if you want to drink. I literally just gave you a first sergeant brief in one sentence. Don't worry, you'll get one of those every friday.

Do whatever you want, but don't expect too much. Keep an open mind. People will tell you otherwise, but don't be a Marine 24/7. What do I mean by this? Of course, make good decisions, and set some sort of example to those around you, but be yourself, and don't let the Marine corps dictate what you do in your free-time, or the way you think about things that you enjoy. If you let it, everyone around you will slowly influence you and push you away from what you love.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. I don't think this will actually help you at all, after reading it over.

You say "violent drunks" like it's a negative thing.

 Captain Fantastic wrote:

 fullmetaljacket wrote:
Hi everyone, im looking for advice from as many people as i can, especially if you are a marine or any kind of service member yourself.
I have always wanted to be a marine, and at the moment im a second year college student at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Ive made the decision to to go on a military leave and enlist in the marine corps and continue college after my service. Through out my 1st year at Cal Poly Ive held many jobs but basically at least 2 at a time... I rarely hang out with friends, go to parties, or even take a minute to rest...I work so many jobs to pay for fixing my car, food and housing, other than that i am collecting loans. I came to college instead of enlisting right away to get the college lifestyle at a younger age, but as of right now its not what i expected. I'm not complaining about my life because i know many more people have it allot worse off than me. I feel that since i was planning on enlisting after college anyway, i could do just do it now, and then when i head back to college i can continue my classes and studying with support of the military behind me. Service in the military will also support my future career interests as a law enforcement park ranger, game warden, fire fighter or maybe even FBI or something. I feel Im making the right choice, I want to serve my country, i know the risk Im taking and i am willing to accept it.
Any advice, comments, opinions, or criticisms are gladly accepted.
Tony A.

Okay kid. I'm Active Duty Marine, and I'll lay it down for you in a way that I think will make sense, even though your conditions are different from mine. First, a little back-story. I joined right out of high school, plus six months of unemployment while I was waiting. I had never worked a day in my life, never played sports, had a girlfriend, or had more than a single friend. I spent most of my time playing Adult Games, reading Manga and playing Mahjong online (that's still what I do, curiously)I was literally on par with those slimy NEETs in the library. I still take pride in that, and nothing will make me regret my life before the Marine Corps. It was gloriously relaxed and easy. I joined the Marines for a multitude of reasons, but the main one was that I wanted to wear a flak and kevlar and go on field ops and get down and dirty all the time. You know, cool stuff like that. I still get off on that stuff. I also wanted a paycheck, and I wanted to support all of my NEET hobbies, which has worked out wonderfully. I also liked the idea of being stationed in Japan, because I would only be short plane ride to the things I love so much, and possibly suicide. Of course, I wanted the glory and pride of being better than the rest. That comes naturally for me. I don't even have to explain that, because it's such an integral part of my life.

The Marine Corps is not what you're expecting. Real talk, it's a bunch of violent drunks, Gym rats, and Stellar Marines all crowded together, getting in trouble with the law, usually with the assistance of alcohol. This leads to it being one of the most versatile and diverse melting pots of the American population, which is wonderful. It's easy to make friends with complete strangers, because you already have something in common, no matter where you're from, or what your background is. Marines, regardess of rank, age, race or MOS know exactly what's necessary for mission accomplishment. Tell a bunch of Marines to go dig a ditch, and they'll get it done. Tell them to pull a a pack and drain the transmission, and they'll get it done. Tell a bunch of Marines to engage enemy targets at 450 Yards, and they'll get it done. I'm not sure if that level of teamwork and natural compatibility is common in other branches, but from the limited of time I spent around Army dog-faces, it doesn't seem like it.

It's still not what you're expecting. I can't talk about working, or your day to day schedule, because it's different for everyone. Just show up and do what you're told, and stand at Parade rest when you think it's right. Put out for PT, keep your uniforms squared away, and don't leave the barracks if you want to drink. I literally just gave you a first sergeant brief in one sentence. Don't worry, you'll get one of those every friday.

Do whatever you want, but don't expect too much. Keep an open mind. People will tell you otherwise, but don't be a Marine 24/7. What do I mean by this? Of course, make good decisions, and set some sort of example to those around you, but be yourself, and don't let the Marine corps dictate what you do in your free-time, or the way you think about things that you enjoy. If you let it, everyone around you will slowly influence you and push you away from what you love.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. I don't think this will actually help you at all, after reading it over.

This is pretty much how my experience in the Corps went as well. Although I'd add that I was in the Air Wing too. That's a much better deal if you can swing it. Get a high score on that ASVAB.

 Seaward wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
^Be all he can be?

That's the (old) Army.

And arguably, the good one too.


@OP, If you are dead set on Marines, then Semper Fi, however, from numerous family friends and old high school mates, Marine Boot is probably the worst experience one can have in life (the one family friend witnessed 5 or 6 suicides in his boot class alone). As a 10 year enlisted man in the Army, I will agree with those who have said go officer if at all humanly possible. Make sure you look into requirements, even the odd ones pertaining to Tattoos (if you have any), etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Captain Fantastic wrote:

 fullmetaljacket wrote:


The Marine Corps is not what you're expecting. Real talk, it's a bunch of violent drunks, Gym rats, and Stellar Marines all crowded together, getting in trouble with the law, usually with the assistance of alcohol. This leads to it being one of the most versatile and diverse melting pots of the American population, which is wonderful. It's easy to make friends with complete strangers, because you already have something in common, no matter where you're from, or what your background is. Marines, regardess of rank, age, race or MOS know exactly what's necessary for mission accomplishment. Tell a bunch of Marines to go dig a ditch, and they'll get it done. Tell them to pull a a pack and drain the transmission, and they'll get it done. Tell a bunch of Marines to engage enemy targets at 450 Yards, and they'll get it done. I'm not sure if that level of teamwork and natural compatibility is common in other branches, but from the limited of time I spent around Army dog-faces, it doesn't seem like it.

It's still not what you're expecting. I can't talk about working, or your day to day schedule, because it's different for everyone. Just show up and do what you're told, and stand at Parade rest when you think it's right. Put out for PT, keep your uniforms squared away, and don't leave the barracks if you want to drink. I literally just gave you a first sergeant brief in one sentence. Don't worry, you'll get one of those every friday.

1st Paragraph: If you join the army, the "Combat Arms", and Engineers are basically the same as this.... Beyond that, you get these new turd kids being pushed out of Basic and AIT who don't have a proper understanding of Rank, and the fact that if you are told to dig a ditch, you shut the feth up, find a shovel (or just go to the ditch) and you DIG!... There's a lot of disgusting little kids coming up in the army ranks (I say disgusting, because when I came in, you didn't do gak like this) these days that question, or argue every command or tasking given. From my time around former Naval personnel, thats not really a problem, at least on ship in the Navy, but I have no idea how it is in the Air Force.

2nd Paragraph: To a T, this.... I think there must be a joint services "1st Sergeant School" or something lol... Capt. Fantastic missed a few key points that have to be brought up each week though: Don't beat your kids, your dog, your spouse, your GF/BF, or your meat (ok, so I just threw on the meat bit). Don't drink/ drive, dont do drugs. If you are going to engage in consensual adult activities, dont be a fool, wrap your tool. If you ride a motorcycle, wear your proper equipment. Wear your seatbelt, and dont speed.... I'm sure I've forgotten something.

Ensis I'm gonna sound harsh here, but you sure your friends went through Marine Corps boot? While I was on depot we didn't have a single suicide or at risk in all three regiments, and while the training is hard it was a freaking blast once you got through first phase and actually pulled your head out of your donkey cave (or had it forcefully removed by the DIs) and compared to SERE Marine Corps boot and infantry training (all Marine MOS codes attend at least one month of basic infantry training) are a summer camp. I'm not saying it isn't difficult, we have our reputation for a reason, as does our boot camp, it's not for the faint of heart of the weak of guts, but multiple suicides and "the worst experience you can ever have" seem pretty extreme.

Better throw in some Boot training years. Basic training in 90 is way different compare to today standards. I think your all forgetting the transformation that happen service wide due to "harassment" caught on the ole video late 90's. Where you can smoke a trooper for screwing up then compare to now teddy bear treatment. I hate paperwork. I rather "smoke" their bags then write them up.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Ensis I'm gonna sound harsh here, but you sure your friends went through Marine Corps boot? While I was on depot we didn't have a single suicide or at risk in all three regiments, and while the training is hard it was a freaking blast once you got through first phase and actually pulled your head out of your donkey cave (or had it forcefully removed by the DIs) and compared to SERE Marine Corps boot and infantry training (all Marine MOS codes attend at least one month of basic infantry training) are a summer camp. I'm not saying it isn't difficult, we have our reputation for a reason, as does our boot camp, it's not for the faint of heart of the weak of guts, but multiple suicides and "the worst experience you can ever have" seem pretty extreme.

Well, I know for a fact that the "worst experience ever" thing was a ploy to keep me from joining the Marines... And I do know of at least one suicide that DID happen in his rotation (this was maybe 1995 or 96 or so, as he was saying they were in that first 48 hours with basically no sleep, apparently the guy hung himself in the Head.

Using the buffer cord? Not being flippant here but there are stories and then you have stories. We had one death in my training company but that was due to a infection that settled in his spinal column.

 Jihadin wrote:
Using the buffer cord? Not being flippant here but there are stories and then you have stories. We had one death in my training company but that was due to a infection that settled in his spinal column.

Yeah, I'd say that the guy hanging himself was not just another story, as my buddy had some details that are just things you don't make up.... During my own basic, we didn't have any deaths, but we had one female who was booted from the army because the medics kept giving her anti-fungal creme for the weird looking infection on her forearm... Turns out, when she was finally taken to the ER, that she had been bitten by a Brown Recluse or some other venomous critter with flesh melting properties.

The first 48 hours really isn't that bad. Just a lot of paperwork.

As we all know the military lives and dies by its paperwork. Even though we're trying to go paperless and "chop trees down to feed the green machine" everyone feels more comfy wen they see it on paper and can actually hold the paper in their hand. Throughout my career I paid for minor TA50 crap I lost over the years. No high dollar items or something that would kill me financially even though they can only take three month pay max. I kept all my hand receipts. No freaking lie. In a file cabinet marked by units. I even kept the paperwork for any items that get lost in the system during movement. They almost got me for 100 man pack Singar radios this last deployment but I had the TCN paperwork that I made a copy of. The Air Force misplaced pallet and the RFID tag was broken off before movement. So its floating in Bagram as of 14 Jun 10.

MAKE EVERY COPY OF WHATEVER DOCUMENTS YOU YOURSELF THINK IS IMPORTANT!!!

Medical and school completion sheets are give me.

Also, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but it has to be said. Your recruiter may play up the idea of going to school while you're in active duty, but it's a lie. I've only met a handful of people who have done anything more serious than an associates degree, and all of them are NCOs or SNCOs

Your command will let you do it, that's not the problem. The problem is that you probably won't want to do it, unless you're the most boring, reclusive loser in the barracks. You'll want to spend your evenings drinking, listening to music, or otherwise enjoying yourself in ways that do not include staring at a computer screen reading digital textbooks. Forget about the weekends too. If you honestly think you have a dedicated enough personality to actually complete two more years of a bachelor's degree, then I applaud you, but if you join the Marine Corps, you might as well just throw those two years away and enjoy your contract E-2.

There's always the reserves, but I don't even see why that exists, honestly. We're a force in constant readiness. Why do we pay part-timers to dress up in uniform once a month and pretend to do a job? Why do we give them the same benefits as those who travel around the world, leave their families and friends behind, and deal with the challenges of active duty life? I'm sure there are some good Marines in the reserves, but I've always felt like it was a cop-out, and I wouldn't actually suggest that anyone join them.

Echoing the accountability thing. If you lose your gear, tell someone. Don't be that fether who has sticky fingers and ends up with five plate carriers and seven sets of gore-tex either. Stealing is wrong, and it hurts the entire Marine Corps.

sorry ive been busy lately, and couldn't get to the computer, the truth is i dont want to go army so regular rotc is out of the question,( i gave it a try for 1 quarter and didn't ike it or the people, the mentality was just not right) i tried OCS and when i saw the gunnery sergeants i admired them more than the officers, ( no offense to anyone) and i saw who i really wanted to be. Ive always wanted to enlist, I haven't really chosen my MOS but ive always wanted infantry.
Plus Going to OCS at Cal Pol wont pay for my entire college, like enlisting will, i plan on returning to college later. and classes while im in.
If you guys have personal experiences in certain MOS's you'd like to share ill be happy to hear them !
Thank
Tony A

I know that each branch has some version or variation on my MOS... When I joined in 04, we were fairly heavily hardware based in fixing electronics/computers, with some software/networking. Now, it's gone completely the other way, we dabble in hardware, and networking is what pays our bills.

But, within the MI community there is very little that I cannot do, or be called to do without success. If I set myself up for it, and network properly, there's almost guaranteed work when I'm done with the military as a contractor or DA civilian or numerous tech companies. We also take a very high view of ourselves in comparison to other MI MOSs out there (seeing as how we have to fix their feth ups, its kinda natural), the only issue that some people may run into is getting the requisite clearance (and anymore, getting and maintaining a clearance is golden for many jobs on the outside)

 fullmetaljacket wrote:
If you guys have personal experiences in certain MOS's you'd like to share ill be happy to hear them !

My argument for ROTC/OCS needs to be watched fullscreen in 1080p.




It's better than sex.

Sweet Jesus that's loud. I think I rattled paintings on the walls.

Also love how the Hawkeye is just chilling back there with the props spinning and people are standing around it like "no big deal".

Seaward, is that what you do for a living?? Lol, count me jealous if it is

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Seaward, is that what you do for a living?? Lol, count me jealous if it is

Not much to be jealous about. Private sector now. I don't fly anymore. :(

It was fun as feth when I did, though. It's a hard job to beat for sheer enjoyment. There's a lot of bs that goes along with it, like any gig in the military (or the civilian world, for that matter) but man. It'll excite and terrify you in ways you'd never dream of.

 Seaward wrote:

 fullmetaljacket wrote:
If you guys have personal experiences in certain MOS's you'd like to share ill be happy to hear them !

My argument for ROTC/OCS needs to be watched fullscreen in 1080p.




It's better than sex.

CATOBAR baby gotta love it.

Whatever you do, Aviation's the life, if your eyes are 20/20 you are NEVER going to have more fun then getting in on the Huey crew chief program. Ma Deuce and vulcans all day long,

 fullmetaljacket wrote:
sorry ive been busy lately, and couldn't get to the computer, the truth is i dont want to go army so regular rotc is out of the question,( i gave it a try for 1 quarter and didn't ike it or the people, the mentality was just not right) i tried OCS and when i saw the gunnery sergeants i admired them more than the officers, ( no offense to anyone) and i saw who i really wanted to be. Ive always wanted to enlist, I haven't really chosen my MOS but ive always wanted infantry.
Plus Going to OCS at Cal Pol wont pay for my entire college, like enlisting will, i plan on returning to college later. and classes while im in.
If you guys have personal experiences in certain MOS's you'd like to share ill be happy to hear them !
Thank
Tony A

Don't say I didn't warn you then. Be prepared to be a janitor, and an errand boy for at least two years, regardless of your MOS. If you have the credentials to be an Officer, I see absolutely no reason to enlist.

 Captain Fantastic wrote:

 fullmetaljacket wrote:
sorry ive been busy lately, and couldn't get to the computer, the truth is i dont want to go army so regular rotc is out of the question,( i gave it a try for 1 quarter and didn't ike it or the people, the mentality was just not right) i tried OCS and when i saw the gunnery sergeants i admired them more than the officers, ( no offense to anyone) and i saw who i really wanted to be. Ive always wanted to enlist, I haven't really chosen my MOS but ive always wanted infantry.
Plus Going to OCS at Cal Pol wont pay for my entire college, like enlisting will, i plan on returning to college later. and classes while im in.
If you guys have personal experiences in certain MOS's you'd like to share ill be happy to hear them !
Thank
Tony A

Don't say I didn't warn you then. Be prepared to be a janitor, and an errand boy for at least two years, regardless of your MOS. If you have the credentials to be an Officer, I see absolutely no reason to enlist.

Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't the job of officer imply that one needs certain leadership skills? I mean, one could be qualified academically or intellectually to be an officer but if one doesn't have the personality necessary won't it be worse than enlisting since you'll lack the respect of one's men? Or does being an officer not necessarily mean a leadership position?

Your thinking Leadership style. There are leadership classes we all attend to at a certain point in our careers. Pretty muc go over the "do's and don't" while in charge and the forms when needs for the admin side. Leadership is develop over time. Basically your going to take everything good from a "leaders" you experience in your past and incorporate into your own style. Golden rule is never take advantage of anyone in a leadership position for your own personnel gain.

 Jihadin wrote:
Your thinking Leadership style. There are leadership classes we all attend to at a certain point in our careers. Pretty muc go over the "do's and don't" while in charge and the forms when needs for the admin side. Leadership is develop over time. Basically your going to take everything good from a "leaders" you experience in your past and incorporate into your own style. Golden rule is never take advantage of anyone in a leadership position for your own personnel gain.

And if you're a new Butter Bar Lt.... LISTEN TO YOUR PLATOON SGT!!!!! for feths sake... that man (or woman) will make you look like a genius, or an idiot, depending on how you act (and somewhat depends on whether or not he/she is themselves an idiot)

fluffstalker wrote:

 Captain Fantastic wrote:

 fullmetaljacket wrote:
sorry ive been busy lately, and couldn't get to the computer, the truth is i dont want to go army so regular rotc is out of the question,( i gave it a try for 1 quarter and didn't ike it or the people, the mentality was just not right) i tried OCS and when i saw the gunnery sergeants i admired them more than the officers, ( no offense to anyone) and i saw who i really wanted to be. Ive always wanted to enlist, I haven't really chosen my MOS but ive always wanted infantry.
Plus Going to OCS at Cal Pol wont pay for my entire college, like enlisting will, i plan on returning to college later. and classes while im in.
If you guys have personal experiences in certain MOS's you'd like to share ill be happy to hear them !
Thank
Tony A

Don't say I didn't warn you then. Be prepared to be a janitor, and an errand boy for at least two years, regardless of your MOS. If you have the credentials to be an Officer, I see absolutely no reason to enlist.

Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't the job of officer imply that one needs certain leadership skills? I mean, one could be qualified academically or intellectually to be an officer but if one doesn't have the personality necessary won't it be worse than enlisting since you'll lack the respect of one's men? Or does being an officer not necessarily mean a leadership position?

Ahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

Hah.

Heeee.

Oh goddess, I can't stop laughing.

Serious business: ROTC is the worst military program we've ever devised as nation that didn't involve assaulting through the fall out of tactical nuclear weapons (see the Davy Crockett weapons system) giving an idiot with a bachelor's degree (and they're all idiots) authority and life and death power over any one is a mistake and we have too many of the useless feths around as it is. Even in the Marine Corps and we have the highest officer to enlisted ratio of all four services. (9 to 1, and we lock him in the supply cabinet so we can get actual work done)

Oh dear.

If you have college credits, and are dead set on enlisting, then the Navy may be a better option from a purely paycheck point of view. You can come in as an E3 with enough credits. And if you really want to deal with all the bull that comes with being a Marine, you can always be a Corpsman. I've seen some many cool things, and been some cool places (although a flight deck is not one of them) as a Corpsman.

I think there's a few posts in this thread that aren't entirely helpful. I'll star the post with the obligatory facts to prove why I should heed my advice: 8 years as a Marine, still active duty and I've been flying for all but 1 of those.

First ... listen to what most of the folks on this thread have been saying. If you already have the credits, finish school and then join. Finishing college, getting through those "college years" and that "college lifestyle" will do you wonders. The maturity alone will set you apart from the vast majority of folks going through boot camp at the same time as you. One of the best Marines I ever worked with had her MBA, she was meritoriously promoted twice and worked harder than anyone I ever met.

Second ... listen to what most of the folks on this thread have been saying (notice a trend?) if you are absolutely dead set on enlisting (again, refer to my first comment) read your contract. Make sure that you are comfortable with what it says. Do your own research on each MOS that you are considering. There are plenty of forums on the internet dedicated to these kinds of questions. Not saying that the Off Topic section on dakka isn't the place to go, I'm only saying there are better places. You want real information, Kalashnikov and Captain Fantastic are giving you good information.

Third, and this is for Kalashnikov and Ennis. I realize it's a good time to talk gak about how dumb officers are, regardless of how you may feel about the topic, you create an image that the military is run by idiotic and inept officers. I can tell you just as many stories about idiotic and inept SNCOs and Junior Marines as you can tell me about idiotic and inept officers. I know the "dumb officers" are out there, some are in charge, but there are a lot of great leaders. A few of whom I would give up unborn children to serve for again.

Fourth, Seaward ... there's nothing I hate more then a jet pilot. As a helo guy, it's in my blood to dislike them. The only ones I can only a quarter put up with are Marine jet pilots. You're all cocky and self centered and we helo guys are better than you Also I'd post of video of me landing and taking off from the boat in my aircraft, but it's no where near as cool as a cat shot.

 Kiwi461 wrote:
Fourth, Seaward ... there's nothing I hate more then a jet pilot. As a helo guy, it's in my blood to dislike them. The only ones I can only a quarter put up with are Marine jet pilots. You're all cocky and self centered and we helo guys are better than you Also I'd post of video of me landing and taking off from the boat in my aircraft, but it's no where near as cool as a cat shot.

I've never understood why everyone else calls the coolest, most handsome, and most important guys on the boat "cocky" and "self-centered."

 Kiwi461 wrote:


Third, and this is for Kalashnikov and Ennis. I realize it's a good time to talk gak about how dumb officers are, regardless of how you may feel about the topic, you create an image that the military is run by idiotic and inept officers. I can tell you just as many stories about idiotic and inept SNCOs and Junior Marines as you can tell me about idiotic and inept officers. I know the "dumb officers" are out there, some are in charge, but there are a lot of great leaders. A few of whom I would give up unborn children to serve for again.

Yes, there are dumb officers, there are good officers as well... but the BEST officers out there listen to, and support the NCOs, that is the large part of what I was trying to say. In my 9 years, there is absolutely nothing worse than outlining a task only to have some brand new 2LT chime in with, "well thats not how we did it at West Point"

If you (anyone in this thread who is thinking, or has thought of becoming an officer) decide to go the Officer route, regardless of what school you went to, whether its the Naval Academy, or AFA, or West Point, or ROTC.... yes, we do things differently in the "real military" and if an NCO is saying we're going to do it this way, it's probably because it's written that way in SOPs and how things ought to be done, or have always been done.

Ensis, I do not disagree that a good officer should listen to his SNCOs and NCOs. I am not a technical expert, they are and I will always defer to their judgement when it comes to fixing aircraft. At the same time that same NCO or SNCO should recognize the reverse. Like I said, I don't think you guys are necessarily wrong I just think you guys are portraying the US Officer Corps in a poor light and I felt like I should say something.

Seaward, that's what happens when the navy builds a whole boat specifically for jets, and then centers entire battle groups around said ships. Jet pilots start to believe they are the center of everyone's universe. And don't try and bring up LHA/LHD. They are horrible and try to pretend their carriers an cater to the harriers anyway.