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Awesome battle! I am not too familiar with the Sunshark's rules, but it definitely seemed like an allstar in this game. As you point out, the Sunshark's 360 degree arc of fire is a big deal against other flyers. This is the same thing that IMO makes the Stormtalon Gunship so strong-- being able to fly over your opponents and shoot them in the rear armor without risk of retaliation is fundamentally extremely good!

Overall I think your opponent's list is unconventional but definitely has what it takes to compete. However it did seem like he made several errors, most notably not putting up Stubborn, jeopardizing his Ethereals, and assaulting the Wraiths with the Riptide. That said, with this and other practice games to learn from, I think he definitely has the tools he needs to make a respectable showing.

Very exciting batrep! : )

Well played to both of you

I've always liked Fire Warriors better than Kroot. Kroot are good for getting into the enemy backfield, but if you have a solution to that then you don't need Kroot.

It pains me that the Tau player was unable to, or forgot, to jump his suits onto the building after shooting at your warriors that first turn after they arrived. The 2+ cover save would have made them a bit tougher to get rid of.

Edited: For clarity.

 Kingsley wrote:
Awesome battle! I am not too familiar with the Sunshark's rules, but it definitely seemed like an allstar in this game. As you point out, the Sunshark's 360 degree arc of fire is a big deal against other flyers. This is the same thing that IMO makes the Stormtalon Gunship so strong-- being able to fly over your opponents and shoot them in the rear armor without risk of retaliation is fundamentally extremely good!

Overall I think your opponent's list is unconventional but definitely has what it takes to compete. However it did seem like he made several errors, most notably not putting up Stubborn, jeopardizing his Ethereals, and assaulting the Wraiths with the Riptide. That said, with this and other practice games to learn from, I think he definitely has the tools he needs to make a respectable showing.

The sunshark is basically a general-purpose Tau flyer that is actually really good against other flyers. It can drop bombs as it overpasses a unit. It's got drones that can fire TL-S7 AP4 shots (or blasts). It's also got a missile pod on it. But most importantly, it can fire 360 and has Interceptor as well. It is kind of flimsy with AV11/10/10 but it's unlike the stormtalon, at least it's got 3 HP's.

Yeah, I think Adam likes vehicles because of the free units they give. Those drones aren't worth any type of VP's and are totally free. 2 drones may not be much, but they're actually adequate as screening/blocking units that forces you to "dilute" your firepower just to get them out of the way. And if you're not careful, they can actually pin units. It's as annoying as heck. He's done that to me before in one of our past games. Thank goodness my wraithstar is Fearless.

He did make some errors, and those errors might have cost him the win, but his overall strategy was solid.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Very exciting batrep! : )

 Trondheim wrote:
Well played to both of you

Thanks!

DarthDiggler wrote:
I've always liked Fire Warriors better than Kroot. Kroot are good for getting into the enemy backfield, but if you have a solution to that then you don't need Kroot.

Fire warriors are great as long as you have another unit to address the mobile scoring issues (either kroots or eldar allies).

But even still, kroots are viable in a pulse-bomb build. They make for a great screening unit. If I had the points in my Tau army (and if I wasn't taking some Eldar allies), I'd go with 2 units of kroots - a large 20-man unit for screening purposes and a smaller 10-man unit for outflanking purposes.

 Nightwolf829 wrote:
It pains me that the Tau player was unable to, or forgot, to jump his suits onto the building after shooting at your warriors that first turn after they arrived. The 2+ cover save would have made them a bit tougher to get rid of.

Edited: For clarity.

He didn't roll high enough for his JSJ to get up there.

Wow! That is actually really cool from the Tau player! I always thought that drones from vehicles were really cool, and if I were to play Tau I'd definitely want to use lots of Pirahnas, and now Sunsharks!

 jy2 wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
Awesome battle! I am not too familiar with the Sunshark's rules, but it definitely seemed like an allstar in this game. As you point out, the Sunshark's 360 degree arc of fire is a big deal against other flyers. This is the same thing that IMO makes the Stormtalon Gunship so strong-- being able to fly over your opponents and shoot them in the rear armor without risk of retaliation is fundamentally extremely good!

Overall I think your opponent's list is unconventional but definitely has what it takes to compete. However it did seem like he made several errors, most notably not putting up Stubborn, jeopardizing his Ethereals, and assaulting the Wraiths with the Riptide. That said, with this and other practice games to learn from, I think he definitely has the tools he needs to make a respectable showing.

The sunshark is basically a general-purpose Tau flyer that is actually really good against other flyers. It can drop bombs as it overpasses a unit. It's got drones that can fire TL-S7 AP4 shots (or blasts). It's also got a missile pod on it. But most importantly, it can fire 360 and has Interceptor as well. It is kind of flimsy with AV11/10/10 but it's unlike the stormtalon, at least it's got 3 HP's.

Yeah, I think Adam likes vehicles because of the free units they give. Those drones aren't worth any type of VP's and are totally free. 2 drones may not be much, but they're actually adequate as screening/blocking units that forces you to "dilute" your firepower just to get them out of the way. And if you're not careful, they can actually pin units. It's as annoying as heck. He's done that to me before in one of our past games. Thank goodness my wraithstar is Fearless.

He did make some errors, and those errors might have cost him the win, but his overall strategy was solid.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Very exciting batrep! : )

 Trondheim wrote:
Well played to both of you

Thanks!

DarthDiggler wrote:
I've always liked Fire Warriors better than Kroot. Kroot are good for getting into the enemy backfield, but if you have a solution to that then you don't need Kroot.

Fire warriors are great as long as you have another unit to address the mobile scoring issues (either kroots or eldar allies).

But even still, kroots are viable in a pulse-bomb build. They make for a great screening unit. If I had the points in my Tau army (and if I wasn't taking some Eldar allies), I'd go with 2 units of kroots - a large 20-man unit for screening purposes and a smaller 10-man unit for outflanking purposes.

 Nightwolf829 wrote:
It pains me that the Tau player was unable to, or forgot, to jump his suits onto the building after shooting at your warriors that first turn after they arrived. The 2+ cover save would have made them a bit tougher to get rid of.

Edited: For clarity.

He didn't roll high enough for his JSJ to get up there.

Problem with the sunshark is that as long as the sunshark is moving the drones can only snapshot, which means no blasts and BS 1

As always, great battle report. I was a bit surprised to see such a close game, but your opponent played well. It did make for a fun read!

I still don't really like that Tau list. Firewarriors crumple to so many lists. I also see no reason to not take a Buff Commander. Even if one wanted to jump from Riptide to Riptide, the model is just too good. The Sunshark is interesting, but ultimately a confused unit. It is a strange jack-of-all-trades in an army that doesn't really need flyers. I happen to really dislike Hammerheads as well.

While that Tau list is particularly good against an army like the Wraiths you ran, I'd imagine it would struggle hard versus Eldar or the "standard" Tau builds.

I'm not entirely sure why you think Fire Warriors "crumple to so many lists." In my experience Kroot are actually much more vulnerable. 4+ armor is much more meaningful in the current edition than it used to be, especially with all the Ignores Cover weapons that people are taking.

Certainly Kroot have their advantages as well. I tend to use both Kroot and Fire Warriors. But I've found that when Fire Warriors go up against nearly any other basic troop, they win-- and that means a lot in 6th edition!

I'm not entirely sure why you think Fire Warriors "crumple to so many lists." In my experience Kroot are actually much more vulnerable. 4+ armor is much more meaningful in the current edition than it used to be, especially with all the Ignores Cover weapons that people are taking.

Certainly Kroot have their advantages as well. I tend to use both Kroot and Fire Warriors. But I've found that when Fire Warriors go up against nearly any other basic troop, they win-- and that means a lot in 6th edition!

Too much AP 4 with ignores cover for my tastes. It is hard to invest in 9 point models that aren't going to be in transports (like Dire Avengers or Necron Warriors). Kroot are very fragile too, but they are usually outflanking. It often allows them to get an alpha strike on other backfield objective grabbers. With help from an Scrier's Gaze or an Autarch, one can keep them off for a few turns as well.

A great read, thanks jy2.

I didn't expect a draw with you having first turn, I expected a narrow win. With some mistakes on either side, his arguably worse, he was down to the wire. Great game.

Wow, that was a nail-biter!

Nice batrep. That was back and forth the whole way. Those are the best games.

Cali has some players.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I know they resemble space shrimp, but must your wraiths move backwards like they are shrimps?

 Tarrasq wrote:
Yes wraiths are eternally doomed to Moonwalk. It's in their programming.

wighti wrote:
I was just thinking about the same thing. Maybe it's some kind of rite of battle. Show your disdain for your opponent by exposing your rear to them

Don't you guys know that this is the secret to being Fearless?

Charge in backwards so that you cannot see the danger in front of you....there, now you are fearless of what lies ahead.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Wow, those ever-living rolls are just disgusting.

I wish my D-lord was that tough.

In this game, my D-lords were average. Though if only he'd have gotten up just 1 more time....

 Talore wrote:
Wow! That is actually really cool from the Tau player! I always thought that drones from vehicles were really cool, and if I were to play Tau I'd definitely want to use lots of Pirahnas, and now Sunsharks!

Yeah, piranhas are actually pretty good, and now they are cheaper and can be squadroned also! With them, you are actually getting 2 screening units thanks to the drones. My Tau teammate at the ATC actually brought some piranhas in his Taudar list.

 Mythantor wrote:
Problem with the sunshark is that as long as the sunshark is moving the drones can only snapshot, which means no blasts and BS 1

Really? That would have made a difference in this game. I'll double-check when I get back home.

 JGrand wrote:
As always, great battle report. I was a bit surprised to see such a close game, but your opponent played well. It did make for a fun read!

I still don't really like that Tau list. Firewarriors crumple to so many lists. I also see no reason to not take a Buff Commander. Even if one wanted to jump from Riptide to Riptide, the model is just too good. The Sunshark is interesting, but ultimately a confused unit. It is a strange jack-of-all-trades in an army that doesn't really need flyers. I happen to really dislike Hammerheads as well.

While that Tau list is particularly good against an army like the Wraiths you ran, I'd imagine it would struggle hard versus Eldar or the "standard" Tau builds.

I really don't see one troop, the fire warriors, as better than the other, the kroots, and vice versa. Rather, I see it more like tactical marines and scout marines. They are different because they play different roles in the army. Each has their role and each is important depending on the type of army build you want to run. Basically, each is equally viable depending on what you want to do with the army. Honestly, I see a balanced pure Tau list as running both.

The Buffmander is good, though you can say the same about the Ethereals. For their costs, they are probably the best force-multiplying unit in the entire game of 40K! Then again, each and every unit has a role and a fit depending on the build. However, with regards to the tactic of "jumping from riptide to riptide", that is not always feasible. Against lists like mine, you'd want to split up your riptides lest they both get assaulted at the same time or to try to split up my forces. Thus, sometimes, it just isn't feasible for your commander to move from unit to unit because they will be too far away. In Adam's list, the Buffmander is not a necessity because he mainly runs vehicles and there are only 2 riptides for him to join (and these riptides will most likely split up). However, if he was taking broadsides in his list as well, then I'd highly recommend the buffmaster. Broadsides can act as a bridge between the 2 riptides when they do split up.

The sunshark is still undecided to me, though I can see why someone would take them in a Tau army. I prefer the skyray over the hammerhead and if I were going vehicle-heavy, would go 2 skyrays + 1 hammerhead. I can see why Tau players would run the hammerhead though. It is a niche unit for some anti-AV14 firepower, especially with the nerfing of the railsides nowadays.

Hi Jim, just checking your math. Does that second Ethereal give up an extra vp? If that is the case, I think you won 15 to 14.

 Mythantor wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
Awesome battle! I am not too familiar with the Sunshark's rules, but it definitely seemed like an allstar in this game. As you point out, the Sunshark's 360 degree arc of fire is a big deal against other flyers. This is the same thing that IMO makes the Stormtalon Gunship so strong-- being able to fly over your opponents and shoot them in the rear armor without risk of retaliation is fundamentally extremely good!

Overall I think your opponent's list is unconventional but definitely has what it takes to compete. However it did seem like he made several errors, most notably not putting up Stubborn, jeopardizing his Ethereals, and assaulting the Wraiths with the Riptide. That said, with this and other practice games to learn from, I think he definitely has the tools he needs to make a respectable showing.

The sunshark is basically a general-purpose Tau flyer that is actually really good against other flyers. It can drop bombs as it overpasses a unit. It's got drones that can fire TL-S7 AP4 shots (or blasts). It's also got a missile pod on it. But most importantly, it can fire 360 and has Interceptor as well. It is kind of flimsy with AV11/10/10 but it's unlike the stormtalon, at least it's got 3 HP's.

Yeah, I think Adam likes vehicles because of the free units they give. Those drones aren't worth any type of VP's and are totally free. 2 drones may not be much, but they're actually adequate as screening/blocking units that forces you to "dilute" your firepower just to get them out of the way. And if you're not careful, they can actually pin units. It's as annoying as heck. He's done that to me before in one of our past games. Thank goodness my wraithstar is Fearless.

He did make some errors, and those errors might have cost him the win, but his overall strategy was solid.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Very exciting batrep! : )

 Trondheim wrote:
Well played to both of you

Thanks!

DarthDiggler wrote:
I've always liked Fire Warriors better than Kroot. Kroot are good for getting into the enemy backfield, but if you have a solution to that then you don't need Kroot.

Fire warriors are great as long as you have another unit to address the mobile scoring issues (either kroots or eldar allies).

But even still, kroots are viable in a pulse-bomb build. They make for a great screening unit. If I had the points in my Tau army (and if I wasn't taking some Eldar allies), I'd go with 2 units of kroots - a large 20-man unit for screening purposes and a smaller 10-man unit for outflanking purposes.

 Nightwolf829 wrote:
It pains me that the Tau player was unable to, or forgot, to jump his suits onto the building after shooting at your warriors that first turn after they arrived. The 2+ cover save would have made them a bit tougher to get rid of.

Edited: For clarity.

He didn't roll high enough for his JSJ to get up there.

Problem with the sunshark is that as long as the sunshark is moving the drones can only snapshot, which means no blasts and BS 1

Actually, as long as the sunshark moves at combat speed, they only count as having moved, and since they are relentless, they can move and fire their blast templates still.

 Mythantor wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
Awesome battle! I am not too familiar with the Sunshark's rules, but it definitely seemed like an allstar in this game. As you point out, the Sunshark's 360 degree arc of fire is a big deal against other flyers. This is the same thing that IMO makes the Stormtalon Gunship so strong-- being able to fly over your opponents and shoot them in the rear armor without risk of retaliation is fundamentally extremely good!

Problem with the sunshark is that as long as the sunshark is moving the drones can only snapshot, which means no blasts and BS 1

Actually, as long as the sunshark moves at combat speed, they only count as having moved, and since they are relentless, they can move and fire their blast templates still.

Combat speed is exactly 18 inches ( well technically 0-18 but if goes any slower it crashes) if it goes any further than 18" in a turn its cruising speed. Which severely limits their options.

 VorackTheGrim wrote:
Hi Jim, just checking your math. Does that second Ethereal give up an extra vp? If that is the case, I think you won 15 to 14.

Is that true? I don't know and don't have my codex with me (at work). I just assumed that only the Warlord was worth a bonus VP.

Can anyone help verify? Thanks.

 jy2 wrote:

 VorackTheGrim wrote:
Hi Jim, just checking your math. Does that second Ethereal give up an extra vp? If that is the case, I think you won 15 to 14.

Is that true? I don't know and don't have my codex with me (at work). I just assumed that only the Warlord was worth a bonus VP.

Can anyone help verify? Thanks.

Yep all Ethereals give up an extra VP on death.

 Mythantor wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 VorackTheGrim wrote:
Hi Jim, just checking your math. Does that second Ethereal give up an extra vp? If that is the case, I think you won 15 to 14.

Is that true? I don't know and don't have my codex with me (at work). I just assumed that only the Warlord was worth a bonus VP.

Can anyone help verify? Thanks.

Yep all Ethereals give up an extra VP on death.

If that's the case, then.....

Woohoo!!! Another Tau scum beaten to the ground by my cheese-crons! Man, I shall took his lunch money.... j.k.!





Automatically Appended Next Post:


Ok....it has been verified. Each Ethereal gives out an additional +1 VP in Purge the Alien and not just the Warlord Ethereal. Thus, I would get another +1 VP for the non-Warlord Ethereal that I killed. Final score:


Necrons: 15, Tau: 14



Victory for Necrons! (Final batrep results edited.)

I also want to point out that only the bomber's drones have interceptor.

 Tarrasq wrote:
I also want to point out that only the bomber's drones have interceptor.

Thanks. That, I actually knew. My opponent told me that only the drones on his sunshark had interceptor.

I found this report rather interesting. I only recently (a couple of months back) got back into 40k from when I used to collect about ten years ago.
My mate is new to the game as well and we've been playing against each other to learn the rules. He's a Tau player and I'm a Necron player and while our armies are very different from the lists in this report, we've had some pretty close games as well.

Welcome back. You guys are playing 2 of the stronger codices in the new 6th Ed. The lists that we are running here are pretty much optimized for tournament play. I would not take my wraithwing necrons list to just casual play. Instead, for just casual play, I take my fun-crons instead. In any case, both can be fun armies to play. Enjoy!

If that Riptide isn't modelled for an advantage, I don't know what is.

General Duf wrote:
If that Riptide isn't modelled for an advantage, I don't know what is.

How do you mean?

Personally, I don't see it as MFA.

Thanks for the report, Jy2. Very great and exciting read! You've certainly given me an insight to how the Tau work nowadays, not to mention the game in general.
When you say "almost every non-scoring unit is expendable", can you apply that to other armies, or just to Tau? If it's the former, that would really change the way I play with my Crons, then.

 Dr. Temujin wrote:
Thanks for the report, Jy2. Very great and exciting read! You've certainly given me an insight to how the Tau work nowadays, not to mention the game in general.
When you say "almost every non-scoring unit is expendable", can you apply that to other armies, or just to Tau? If it's the former, that would really change the way I play with my Crons, then.

You're welcome.

The Tau are very strong in this edition. IMO, the 3 top armies currently are Tau, Eldar (or a combination of the 2) and Necrons.

My gaming philosophy is that, in any objectives-based scenarios, any unit that is not a scoring unit is an expendable unit. Don't be afraid to sacrifice it, even if it is your deathstar, power unit or Warlord. That's how I play my games. I'd gladly sacrifice my 400-pt power unit just to kill a 50-pt troop if that would win me the game. That philosophy applies to all my armies and I believe it can apply to all the armies in the game as well. However, you're going to have to use your judgement on when to do it. Do it if it makes sense. Just be prepared to lose it for the "Greater Good" of the army (whether it be Tau or any army you are running).