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damn, wrong again. The use of phase in that sentence seems weird to me; like each model has its own movement phase. I could have sworn the sentence said "end their movement in base contact" as each model does have its own movement but not its own movement phase.

 DJGietzen wrote:
damn, wrong again. The use of phase in that sentence seems weird to me; like each model has its own movement phase. I could have sworn the sentence said "end their movement in base contact" as each model does have its own movement but not its own movement phase.

Yea it is like last edition that talked about "The beginning of the Librarians movement phase" when casting certain powers, which of course did not exist because modelsdo not have their own movement phase.

It is worded strangely though.

DeathReaper wrote: ... (Also:The Necron FaQ clarifies what happens if the model with the relic goes into ongoing reserves from play).

The Necron FAQ does not mention this mission nor that specific interaction to my awareness. Can you quote the specific portion of it that you feel supports your comment?

Neorealist,

It is the basic rule book Frequently Asked Questions that contains a section informing us that anytime a model is removed from the board, for all reasons bar transportation, the Relic is automatically dropped. It is in the errata section, informing us to add the a paragraph explaining what to do if the bearer is moved off the table, highlighting the only exception mentioned above. This 'fixes' the NightScythe more by accident then design though, I would say it was more likely addressing the common ways a unit could be removed from the table; which could of otherwise been used to move the Relic into a position where it can not be attacked or get around the 6 inch move limitation.

However, when you combine it with the sentence giving permission to use a transports access points to measure the 1 inch drop range from, we do have a solution.

When a model is wrecked/exploded there is a sequence of events that need to be followed, creating a time line. That sequence informs us when we have to disembark the models inside prior to the transport being removed or reduced to terrain. In the case of the NightScythe, we are told to place the unit into ongoing reserves instead of disembarking them. Noting in that special rule tells us to execute the order at a different moment in the time line, so you would execute that section of the rules during the period you would otherwise be disembarking. This creates a fluid time line that doesn't break the game: Transport is attacked - rolls an explode result - models go into reserves - Relic is dropped - Measure 1 inch from the access point - Remove transport, and it's access point, from table or turn into a wreckage.

Now I am not 100% sure on this because I am relying on my memory being accurate enough on the course of events, it reads as correct but I don't trust my fleshy organs.

JinxDragon wrote:
Neorealist,

It is the basic rule book Frequently Asked Questions that contains a section informing us that anytime a model is removed from the board, for all reasons bar transportation, the Relic is automatically dropped. It is in the errata section, informing us to add the a paragraph explaining what to do if the bearer is moved off the table, highlighting the only exception mentioned above. This 'fixes' the NightScythe more by accident then design though, I would say it was more likely addressing the common ways a unit could be removed from the table; which could of otherwise been used to move the Relic into a position where it can not be attacked or get around the 6 inch move limitation.

However, when you combine it with the sentence giving permission to use a transports access points to measure the 1 inch drop range from, we do have a solution.

When a model is wrecked/exploded there is a sequence of events that need to be followed, creating a time line. That sequence informs us when we have to disembark the models inside prior to the transport being removed or reduced to terrain. In the case of the NightScythe, we are told to place the unit into ongoing reserves instead of disembarking them. Noting in that special rule tells us to execute the order at a different moment in the time line, so you would execute that section of the rules during the period you would otherwise be disembarking. This creates a fluid time line that doesn't break the game: Transport is attacked - rolls an explode result - models go into reserves - Relic is dropped - Measure 1 inch from the access point - Remove transport, and it's access point, from table or turn into a wreckage.

Now I am not 100% sure on this because I am relying on my memory being accurate enough on the course of events, it reads as correct but I don't trust my fleshy organs.

I don't want to digress any further from the OP (well, unless his main point was that there are all sorts of ways 'The Relic' is poorly worded other than just the interaction with ICs and scoring units anyway)

But I would like to address your comment. As you said, the FAQ does indicate that any time a model is removed from the board 'apart' from boarding a transport, the relic is dropped. So far so good. The necron warriors in the scenario I posted 'are' boarding a transport, so they bypass that particular FAQ note that you've indicated.

However, and this is critical to my point: After the nightscythe auto-pwns itself because it can no longer move the required minimum distance, the unit inside has already left the table. It has to have, as that it what the 'embarking on a transport vehicle' rules very clearly state happens in that scenario. So, when it explodes, the necron unit is not 'removed from the table' since it is at that point not 'on' the table. Instead, the entire unit is placed in reserves rather than what is normal for that scenario. Sadly in this case? That unit never undergoes one of the triggers prompting it to drop the relic, and therefore the relic ends up in reserves. (which of course rather s with the point of the mission)

I am researching it now... the majority of the theory still stands and I will explain why but I did find something interesting. It is only the 'wrecked' result which gives us the time line I was using above, so my conclusion is a little flawed thanks to that tiny fact. If you look in the explode result it will instruct the player to remove the vehicle first prior to placing the models on the spot it once contained. This really, REALLLLLY, breaks the time line I had created as I need to use the access point which can only exist while the model is on the table! Therefore I still have to conclude that the Night Scythe is quite broken when it comes to the relic, as you could technically remove it from the table and suddenly poof it to the very corner of your deployment zone the next turn.

-- Focusing on just wrecked right now --

The key element is page 51 of the Necron Codex, the Night Scythe page after all. Looking under their transport rules we see it is broken into three sections: How much it can carry, the non-pure infantry units it can carry and a section on what to do with the models inside if the unit is destroyed. I do not normally post straight rules, but for better understanding I will be stating outright the sentence most in question: If the Night Scythe is destroyed, the embarked unit is not allowed to disembark, but instead enters reserve. It is this section which informs us that the unit inside the transport is an 'embarked' unit and treated as such for all rules.

We can then use it, and two other rules plus one frequently asked question, to create a time line that allows the Night Scythe to function in the relic without breaking the game (at least, as long as it doesn't explode). As we can consider the unit embarked right up to the very point they are forced to disembark, this allows us to use the vehicles access point to measure the 1 inch drop from if the Relic is dropped whenever the unit exists off the table in any state but 'in a transport. As the model is on the table when the unit inside moves from 'in transport' to 'in reserve,' we still have an access point to measure from whenever the 'dropped the relic' rule comes into play. Sloppy that we have to combine a few rules to just get something working slightly like the rules clearly intend, but that is very on par with the lack of good editorial support.

Now I do accept that someone could make the argument that the unit is already off the table, therefore it can't be moved 'off the table,' as it is a good argument from a rules as written perspective but I was trying to find something that would let the Night Scythe not blue screen the game every time and the finer semantics could be fiddled over by people who have more time and dedication to clashing rules....

Pages of References:
Effect of Damage on Passengers: Wrecked - 80
The Relic: Dropping the Relic - 131
FAQ: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3440036a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1.5_September_13.pdf - 3