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Hey all,

So, the rules for handing the relic off to another squad member states you can hand off the relic to any model in the scoring unit as long as that model is in base contact with the current relic holder. Due to this, it is possible to hand it off to an independent character (for instance, a wraithguard giving it to Eldrad). What happens if the scoring unit to which the Independent character is attached is wiped out. The character (eldrad in the example) reverts to being an Independent character, but would he be forced to drop the relic or could he continue to claim it?

Ask yourself this. Is he a scoring unit?

 phatonic wrote:
Ask yourself this. Is he a scoring unit?

In order to pick up the relic you must be a scoring unit. Nothing says you must be a scoring unit to carry it around.

HIWPI- They drop it.

the rule says "can transfer it to any friendly model that is part of a scoring unit'...
I don't feel it's RAI, but RAW, yes.

I don't see anything in the rulebook or the FAQ that disallows passing it to an IC, nor can I find anything that forces something that is not part of a scoring unit to drop the relic if holding it, so you can do this, unless I'm missing something.

 Jimsolo wrote:
HIWPI- They drop it.

I agree with this

The relic rules have a few issues with them. Taking it off the board in a transport is never covered for example. There is this issue with IC, and then there is the primary objective issue.

Players don't seize relics, models do, and keeping the relic is not part of seizing it. You really need to read between the lines here otherwise nobody gets victory points, or each player who picked it up at least once gets victory points or, how I bet 99.9% of the world would play it only the player who controls a model in possession of the relic at the end of the game gets the VP.

The Relic is a mess.

The following is allowed by the rules:

Tzeentch Herald in a Horror unit picks it up. He's a part of a scoring unit.

Next turn, the Herald moves over to the Screamer Council.

Now the Relic is buried in a unit with a 2++ with re-roll. But they're not scoring! Doesn't matter. You only drop the relic by falling back or being killed. And you don't need to be scoring to hold it, only to pick it up.

And it gets better! Your opponent can't do anything about it. There's no contesting of the relic.

Can't kill the Screamerstar, can't contest the relic, can't win.

Seriously, feth the relic.

in your example you don't need to kill the Screamerstar, just the herald. Tat can be accomplished with persision shots or excellent model placement. The herald would not be able to transfer the relic to anyone in the screamer council, he can just hold it himself and join that unit.

Also, transferring the model to an IC lets the relic move up to 12 inches in the movement phase, an exploit usually much less effective because of unit coherency, by moving model A 6 inches to the IC, then moving the IC out of coherency and another 6 inches.

 DJGietzen wrote:
in your example you don't need to kill the Screamerstar, just the herald. Tat can be accomplished with persision shots or excellent model placement. The herald would not be able to transfer the relic to anyone in the screamer council, he can just hold it himself and join that unit.

Also, transferring the model to an IC lets the relic move up to 12 inches in the movement phase, an exploit usually much less effective because of unit coherency, by moving model A 6 inches to the IC, then moving the IC out of coherency and another 6 inches.

The rules do not allow this for a variety of reasons.

Thud wrote:

Next turn, the Herald moves over to the Screamer Council.

Now the Relic is buried in a unit with a 2++ with re-roll.

Any unit in the Daemon army can, rather easily, get a 2++; any Daemon of Tzeentch can get it re-rollable. Why stick it in a unit of 9 bodies when you can keep it in the 20-strong Horror unit, which has the same awesome save, that doesn't care about ID? Why put the Relic in a unit of jetbikes, thus seriously nerfing their mobility?

 DJGietzen wrote:

Also, transferring the model to an IC lets the relic move up to 12 inches in the movement phase, an exploit usually much less effective because of unit coherency, by moving model A 6 inches to the IC, then moving the IC out of coherency and another 6 inches.

This doesn't work..the IC would only join the unit if both he and the unit end their movement within 2" of each other.

If someone tried that screamerstar trick against me I just hope that I have a couple condemer boltguns with me. For some reason I would feel no pity for them at that point.

We've always played it that it cannot be carried by the IC's. Solves the problem of the half hour rules debate.

war wrote:
If someone tried that screamerstar trick against me I just hope that I have a couple condemer boltguns with me. For some reason I would feel no pity for them at that point.

We've always played it that it cannot be carried by the IC's. Solves the problem of the half hour rules debate.

Unless they FAQ them, condemner boltguns are useless against psyker ICs hiding in a non-psyker unit.
I agree that it was probably not intentional to allow ICs to run away with the relic, I just wish they had put something in the rules to disallow it, I never play with houserules unless it's an issue that can't be resolved without them, so if someone does this I'm going to have to allow it or abandon my principles.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Thud wrote:

Next turn, the Herald moves over to the Screamer Council.

Now the Relic is buried in a unit with a 2++ with re-roll.

Any unit in the Daemon army can, rather easily, get a 2++; any Daemon of Tzeentch can get it re-rollable. Why stick it in a unit of 9 bodies when you can keep it in the 20-strong Horror unit, which has the same awesome save, that doesn't care about ID? Why put the Relic in a unit of jetbikes, thus seriously nerfing their mobility?

My point wasn't really to show off the best way of protecting the relic, rather showing the most ridiculous way.

Thud wrote:My point wasn't really to show off the best way of protecting the relic, rather showing the most ridiculous way.

I see your comment, and raise you: 'a necron warrior squad embarks on a nightscythe with the relic in tow'.

Because that poorly written mission, that's why.

 Neorealist wrote:

Thud wrote:My point wasn't really to show off the best way of protecting the relic, rather showing the most ridiculous way.

I see your comment, and raise you: 'a necron warrior squad embarks on a nightscythe with the relic in tow'.

Because that poorly written mission, that's why.

Not really an issue anymore.

Fragile wrote:Not really an issue anymore.

I'm curious what rules-related reason you'd have for saying that; so far as I am aware that particular interaction is just one of the many issues with the relic mission and hasn't been addressed?

Relic enters the Scythe. Scythe cannot move the required distance and crashes. Squad enters reserves and is no longer on the table. Relic drops on table.

 Neorealist wrote:

Fragile wrote:Not really an issue anymore.

I'm curious what rules-related reason you'd have for saying that; so far as I am aware that particular interaction is just one of the many issues with the relic mission and hasn't been addressed?

Models with the relic can't move more than 6 inches. Nightscythes must move 18 inches or automatically wreck due to zooming flyer rules. Due to the FAQ, if a model leaves the table for any reason that isn't embarking on a vehicle, the relic is dropped 1'' from where they were last on the table. So the nightscythe crashes and burns and drops the relic where it crashed since the warriors/immortals/whatever went back in reserves.

Yay we did it, Nightscythes aren't an issue.

DiabloSpawn33 wrote: Due to the FAQ...

I'd missed this part. Which FAQ is it in? Given that nightscythes are transports and the nightscythe exploding doesn't (technically) remove any of it's contents from the table...

Fragile wrote:

 DJGietzen wrote:
in your example you don't need to kill the Screamerstar, just the herald. Tat can be accomplished with persision shots or excellent model placement. The herald would not be able to transfer the relic to anyone in the screamer council, he can just hold it himself and join that unit.

Also, transferring the model to an IC lets the relic move up to 12 inches in the movement phase, an exploit usually much less effective because of unit coherency, by moving model A 6 inches to the IC, then moving the IC out of coherency and another 6 inches.

The rules do not allow this for a variety of reasons.

What reasons are those?


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Models A, B, C, and D are all part of a scoring unit that has been joined by an IC.

Step One: Model A has the relic and moves 6 inches towards the IC in his unit.
Step Two: Model A transfers the relic to another model in a scoring unit, the IC.
Step Three: The IC moves 6 inches away from the unit and leaves unit coherency.

This technique should work with out an IC as long as you have enough models in the unit to allow two travlers to always start and end their movement within 2 inches of another model in the unit.

DiabloSpawn33 wrote:

 Neorealist wrote:

Fragile wrote:Not really an issue anymore.

I'm curious what rules-related reason you'd have for saying that; so far as I am aware that particular interaction is just one of the many issues with the relic mission and hasn't been addressed?

Models with the relic can't move more than 6 inches. Nightscythes must move 18 inches or automatically wreck due to zooming flyer rules. Due to the FAQ, if a model leaves the table for any reason that isn't embarking on a vehicle, the relic is dropped 1'' from where they were last on the table. So the nightscythe crashes and burns and drops the relic where it crashed since the warriors/immortals/whatever went back in reserves.

Yay we did it, Nightscythes aren't an issue.

All flying transports are an issue.

The model with the relic embarks on the flying transport.

That transport goes less then 6 inches to the table edge end enters on going reserves

The relic is no longer represented on the table, and the model with the relic was not removed from the table so the BRB FAQ does not apply.

Well for a start, read the first sentence in moving with a relic about not being allowed to move more than 6" in a phase. Secondly you can only transfer the Relic from one model to another If they end their movement phase in BTB.


As for your flying transport, the FAQ clearly states that the relic would drop if the transport went into Ongoing reserves.

Fragile wrote:
Well for a start, read the first sentence in moving with a relic about not being allowed to move more than 6" in a phase. Secondly you can only transfer the Relic from one model to another If they end their movement phase in BTB.


As for your flying transport, the FAQ clearly states that the relic would drop if the transport went into Ongoing reserves.

All of this.

That diagram is illegal unless it covers 2 different turns.

Fragile wrote:
Well for a start, read the first sentence in moving with a relic about not being allowed to move more than 6" in a phase. Secondly you can only transfer the Relic from one model to another If they end their movement phase in BTB.


As for your flying transport, the FAQ clearly states that the relic would drop if the transport went into Ongoing reserves.

1)You mean this sentance.

The Relic is fragile, and swift movement will likely damage
it, so the model carrying the Relic cannot Run and can never
move more than 6" in any phase.

How does that stop one model from moving 6" and then another model moving 6: in the same phase?

You are right though. I was operating on the assumption you can transfer the relic at any point in the movement phase. You can only transfer after both models have completed their movement.

2) The FAQ makes no mention of what happens to the relic if it is aboard a vehicle going into ongloing reserves.

Page 131 – The Relic, Dropping the Relic
Change the second sentence of the first paragraph to “If the
model falls back, the Relic is dropped automatically before
the model performs its Fall Back move. If the model is
removed as a casualty, or is in any other way removed from
the table – whether voluntarily or otherwise – the Relic is
dropped automatically and placed within 1” of the spot
where the model last was before it left the table. Note that
embarking onto a Transport is an exception to this, as
detailed below.”

The transport does not have the relic. A model embarked on the transport has the relic. The model has left the table when it embarked but was not required to drop the relic. The transport has left the table but was not the model with the relic. Nothing will be forced to drop the relic in this case.

DJGietzen:

1) The relic is only transferred at the end of the movement phase, so if your diagram was two different turns you are good to go, if it was the same turn, that is cheating.

2) If the transport goes into Ongoing reserves so does the embarked passengers... (Also:The Necron FaQ clarifies what happens if the model with the relic goes into ongoing reserves from play).

Echoing others... if model scoring when got it, all good. No rule to be scoring while carrying, just to pick it up.

 DeathReaper wrote:
DJGietzen:

1) The relic is only transferred at the end of the movement phase, so if your diagram was two different turns you are good to go, if it was the same turn, that is cheating.

2) If the transport goes into Ongoing reserves so does the embarked passengers... (Also:The Necron FaQ clarifies what happens if the model with the relic goes into ongoing reserves from play).

1)yeah I caught my mistake. But its not the end of the movement phase, its after both models have completed their move. You could transfer the relic then move other models.

2)ah, then we are all good.

 DJGietzen wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
DJGietzen:

1) The relic is only transferred at the end of the movement phase, so if your diagram was two different turns you are good to go, if it was the same turn, that is cheating.

2) If the transport goes into Ongoing reserves so does the embarked passengers... (Also:The Necron FaQ clarifies what happens if the model with the relic goes into ongoing reserves from play).

1)yeah I caught my mistake. But its not the end of the movement phase, its after both models have completed their move. You could transfer the relic then move other models..

It is at the end of the movement phase.

"if the two models end their Movement phase in base contact." (131)

How does a movement phase end for models? by the movement phase ending and the shooting phase starting. This is because individual models do not have their own movement phases, it is all one movement phase.