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 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/Feast-of-Blades-Invitational/2/leaderboard

Astonishingly, in that list only 32 of 100 armies are not Eldar, Tau or Daemons, (or those armies allied with each other) and a lot of those 32 are allied with Eldar, Tau or Daemons.

Entries into and results from big tournaments are a pretty good indicator of the overall situation, so I reckon it strongly indicates that Eldar, Tau and Daemons are the top three at the moment.

If we had a couple more large tournament results, it would probably end the discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
find it funny that so many are saying eldar are better than tau, yet 99% of the flame goes towards tau for being OP lol.

A lot of players have always loved to hate Tau. There is also bandwagon jumping and memory retconning going on.

1. Necrons
2. Tau
3. Eldar

1-Orks
2-Orks
3-Its a very tight choice between Orks and Orks but ill have to go with Orks

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/Feast-of-Blades-Invitational/2/leaderboard

Highest placing Imperial army at #16. This is pretty funny considering that up to like a year ago, there was huge whining about how GW favours Space Marine armies and hates xenos.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
thats not what i said nor implied... i saw one chart from nova tourney posted. 400 players of about millions worldwide. and the thread was about opinions. I was speaking from my own opinion on what i see playing well outside my "local area". Speaking on my own experience on what i have trouble with when i play. You can be a bandwagon sheep all you want bud, but dont be a troll flamer also.. back to the topic at hand. Flame off...

This is exactly what you said:

Tsilber wrote:
charts and reports from a few tournies only lend a small fraction of credence to the topic.

Okay, so how about you back that up? I'm assuming your next statement is either supposed to be your explanation for this statement (protip: one person's anecdotal evidence does not trump a collective archive of data made by thousands of people). If not, then this next statement of yours,

Tsilber wrote:
Top 3 ive witnessed, played against, seen in tourneys and local games.

1) Necrons
2) Daemons
3) Eldar

is entirely irrelevant. Either you're using your own experience to prove that "charts aren't everything" or you're wasting everyone's time by posting what you see and that somehow means anything other than what you've seen in your limited experiences.

You are standing here saying you are right, and everyone else in the world is wrong and you're calling me the troll.

Wow, you flaming troll boy. You really had to press the issue of my comments.

Ill go slower for you, tool. I clearly said four times now it is my opinion... One chart of tourney of 400 players is hardly everyone else in the world, stop being so "epic dramatic"... 400 players of one tourney is a small fraction of the players world wide... see the reference? Or are you still to slow? Ill bet the lather...

The topic was about peoples opinions. I posted mine, being a player who plays all over the East coast. And reading reports from players from other tournies, not just 1 tourney.. You see a portion is called first hand experience, try it out. I posted what i struggle with and what i think can build the most powerful list...Dont like my post, piss off.

The topic asked for top 3 in your opinion, all you posted was a chart.. Way to follow simple instructions.... Kudos

Unlike you, im not some fan boy or bandwagon poser of what i read everyone else playing... I don't just hop on thread and agree with everyone for the sake of covering up how much i suck. I wonder how many games against Eldar, Tau daemons you have played. Id be interested in hearing why you struggle with them.... Stop trying to make an argument over nothing. Its you wasting everyone's time with your twisting of views, "epic drama", and stick poking.

Also it seems a few agree with my opinion here, a few have put necrons in top 3. So not "EVERYONE", like you are claiming, is looking at one chart to influence their decision. I suggest you go practice some more or drop you drama.

Tsilber wrote:

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
thats not what i said nor implied... i saw one chart from nova tourney posted. 400 players of about millions worldwide. and the thread was about opinions. I was speaking from my own opinion on what i see playing well outside my "local area". Speaking on my own experience on what i have trouble with when i play. You can be a bandwagon sheep all you want bud, but dont be a troll flamer also.. back to the topic at hand. Flame off...

This is exactly what you said:

Tsilber wrote:
charts and reports from a few tournies only lend a small fraction of credence to the topic.

Okay, so how about you back that up? I'm assuming your next statement is either supposed to be your explanation for this statement (protip: one person's anecdotal evidence does not trump a collective archive of data made by thousands of people). If not, then this next statement of yours,

Tsilber wrote:
Top 3 ive witnessed, played against, seen in tourneys and local games.

1) Necrons
2) Daemons
3) Eldar

is entirely irrelevant. Either you're using your own experience to prove that "charts aren't everything" or you're wasting everyone's time by posting what you see and that somehow means anything other than what you've seen in your limited experiences.

You are standing here saying you are right, and everyone else in the world is wrong and you're calling me the troll.

Wow, you flaming troll boy. You really had to press the issue of my comments.

Ill go slower for you, tool. I clearly said four times now it is my opinion... One chart of tourney of 400 players is hardly everyone else in the world, stop being so "epic dramatic"... 400 players of one tourney is a small fraction of the players world wide... see the reference? Or are you still to slow? Ill bet the lather...

The topic was about peoples opinions. I posted mine, being a player who plays all over the East coast. And reading reports from players from other tournies, not just 1 tourney.. You see a portion is called first hand experience, try it out. I posted what i struggle with and what i think can build the most powerful list...Dont like my post, piss off.

The topic asked for top 3 in your opinion, all you posted was a chart.. Way to follow simple instructions.... Kudos

Unlike you, im not some fan boy or bandwagon poser of what i read everyone else playing... I don't just hop on thread and agree with everyone for the sake of covering up how much i suck. I wonder how many games against Eldar, Tau daemons you have played. Id be interested in hearing why you struggle with them.... Stop trying to make an argument over nothing. Its you wasting everyone's time with your twisting of views, "epic drama", and stick poking.

Also it seems a few agree with my opinion here, a few have put necrons in top 3. So not "EVERYONE", like you are claiming, is looking at one chart to influence their decision. I suggest you go practice some more or drop you drama.

You're a trashy poster Tsilber, in no way did Tyberos personally insult you, yet you've thrown at least four different personal insults at him. This is a friendly forum, if you don't know how to have a debate without using terms such as "fan boy", "flaming troll boy", "tool" "bandwagon poser", "epic drama", and "bandwagon sheep" then remove yourself from the discussion until you can make a relevant, non-insulting post. Grow up.

yes yes, jump in and defend your friend.

First off settle down, internet muscles.
Second His first post was insulting, read it again pal.
Third, I followed the rules to thread and topic i posted what i thought was top 3. He posted a chart and a link... then flamed on when i didnt agree with his chart.
His argument is based on "thousands around the world", tons of evidence he claims.... 1 tourney results is what was posted. And here on dakka about 30 replies, and only about half are tau,eldar, daemons. Pretty far from "everyone else" huh?
Fourth, My original post was very friendly... My second post suggested to drop it...

That being said Your post however is not helping the situation one bit. You tell people not to call people names, and dont insult, and grow up. Yet you do the very same thing you say i should not. That makes you a Hypocrite.

And ill add you added nothing to help the post and original topic/thread. So piss off man, no need to jump in and defend you friend. He is a big boy and can defend himself, i think...

Im dropping this now. Do the same, or scratch up and get that last word in, i careless.

Tsilber wrote:
yes yes, jump in and defend your friend.

First off settle down, internet muscles.
Second His first post was insulting, read it again pal.
Third, I followed the rules to thread and topic i posted what i thought was top 3. He posted a chart and a link... then flamed on when i didnt agree with his chart.
His argument is based on "thousands around the world", tons of evidence he claims.... 1 tourney results is what was posted. And here on dakka about 30 replies, and only about half are tau,eldar, daemons. Pretty far from "everyone else" huh?
Fourth, My original post was very friendly... My second post suggested to drop it...

That being said Your post however is not helping the situation one bit. You tell people not to call people names, and dont insult, and grow up. Yet you do the very same thing you say i should not. That makes you a Hypocrite.

And ill add you added nothing to help the post and original topic/thread. So piss off man, no need to jump in and defend you friend. He is a big boy and can defend himself, i think...

Im dropping this now. Do the same, or scratch up and get that last word in, i careless.

First I don't even know the guy, so he isn't a friend of mine. Second I just reread all of his posts, and never ONCE did I see a personal insult toward you in this thread. The closest thing would be me telling you to grow up which I seriously think you need to do after this post. I'll be reporting you to the mods now who have a better chance of stopping your trashy posts than I do.

Tsilber wrote:
[
Wow, you flaming troll boy. You really had to press the issue of my comments.

Ill go slower for you, tool. I clearly said four times now it is my opinion... One chart of tourney of 400 players is hardly everyone else in the world, stop being so "epic dramatic"... 400 players of one tourney is a small fraction of the players world wide... see the reference? Or are you still to slow? Ill bet the lather...

The topic was about peoples opinions. I posted mine, being a player who plays all over the East coast. And reading reports from players from other tournies, not just 1 tourney.. You see a portion is called first hand experience, try it out. I posted what i struggle with and what i think can build the most powerful list...Dont like my post, piss off.

The topic asked for top 3 in your opinion, all you posted was a chart.. Way to follow simple instructions.... Kudos

Unlike you, im not some fan boy or bandwagon poser of what i read everyone else playing... I don't just hop on thread and agree with everyone for the sake of covering up how much i suck. I wonder how many games against Eldar, Tau daemons you have played. Id be interested in hearing why you struggle with them.... Stop trying to make an argument over nothing. Its you wasting everyone's time with your twisting of views, "epic drama", and stick poking.

Also it seems a few agree with my opinion here, a few have put necrons in top 3. So not "EVERYONE", like you are claiming, is looking at one chart to influence their decision. I suggest you go practice some more or drop you drama.

That was needlessly aggressive and personally insulting. Try keeping to the debate and not get sidetracked in mudslinging.

Okay, i stand corrected on my attitude everyone. Took my own advice and reread through things. My apologies.
I did get off topic, and i did get aggressive/defensive.

Topic asked for top 3, i gave top three from my own experience, research and feedback from friends and global events. Whatever is or was said or exchanged over these boards after that should not have to go in certain directions as i myself helped take it.

Apologies dakka community and cheers.

Ah, yeah.

Everyone - Please make sure to read the rules of this site - the rules everyone agreed to follow when they signed up here.

Please pay particular attention to Rule #1.

Tsilber wrote:
OTopic asked for top 3, i gave top three from my own experience, research and feedback from friends and global events. .

In a thread like this -- that is valueable input. Tsilber said what he thought were the top 3 from his own experience.

Its important to realize that not everyone plays at the top tables at NOVA, or FoB, Adepticon, etc. There are lots of local metas (Tsilber said he plays the NE USA), and they might reflect a different area than the international top tables.

Even myself who first said "Just check ToF" realized that whats accurate for the national scale is not always accurate for the local scale. So what is the 'best' in your area might not be the best nationally.
Also, if you look at the top 9 or 10, they were allied list . Tsibler only discussed primary armies.

Edit : It was also really big of him to apologize for losing his cool. Many people on the interwebs are not that mature.

 labmouse42 wrote:
It was also really big of him to apologize for losing his cool. Many people on the interwebs are not that mature.

Agreed

 labmouse42 wrote:
Seriously guys. Stop speculating. Just look at torrent of fire. They show which armies are winning the big events.

This used to be a point of hot contention, but now a days its just a matter of looking it up.

Meh. Nothing is cut and dry. This is a listing of the best tournament armies, which are heavily influenced by what is popular on the Interwebs.

The best players I know do not attend tournaments, they spend their time experimenting with armies and figuring out ways to beat tournament lists. The ideas they come up with come to shape the tournament lists we see 6 months to a year from now.

Debate about what those results mean is healthy and necessary for the continued growth of the wargaming community.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Meh. Nothing is cut and dry. This is a listing of the best tournament armies, which are heavily influenced by what is popular on the Interwebs.

I suggest listening to interviews of people who win national events. The vast majority of these guys are not people who pick up a list off dakka and run with it. These are guys who take the game very seriously -- as shown by their dedication to spend thousands of dollars to travel to multiple national events per year.
These guys play multiple games per week and are very hard core. They don't just say 'Eldar and Tau are what people are talking about so I'll take it". Instead they have tested these lists against all others and found them to be the most competitive.
Your selling them short inferring that they just run 'netlists'.

 techsoldaten wrote:
The best players I know do not attend tournaments, they spend their time experimenting with armies and figuring out ways to beat tournament lists. The ideas they come up with come to shape the tournament lists we see 6 months to a year from now.

It is possible that you are in the mecca of 40k knowledge and all the rest of the people in the world are followers to your local meta's trailblazing. Unless your in Connecticut I cannot attest to it and thus cannot dispute it.

I can say that I've been to a number of large GTs and the caliber of player there is significantly higher than the average local gaming store event. You can go to the NOVA open, for example, and take the top 50 players -- drop them into any local RTT and they will probably clobber everyone else there.

If your local meta are all such good players, I encourage them to attend big events. Its really refreshing to go in and meet other guys who love the game as much as they do. Who knows, they might even come in and sweep the event. You know NOVA did over a $1000 prize

 techsoldaten wrote:
Debate about what those results mean is healthy and necessary for the continued growth of the wargaming community.

Agreed. Its not the debate about 'Which armies are on top' that is worth having. That's fairly easy to determine with today's technology. The questions worth debating are.....
- Why are they on top
- How can they be countered via existing codex's
- Could incoming codex's make a difference
Now that's a good discussion. Given the rapid changing meta it makes for a very detailed discussion.