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In no order my top 3 are as follows:

1.) Daemons
2.)Tau
3.)Eldar

This is assuming the most competitive builds in the current meta (I know, I know... meta's vary by location, but I'm thinking tourney results i.e. GT's)

This is NOT taking into account fluff. Let me know your thoughts gentlemen and of course ladies!

Id put Eldar above tau since both demons and Eldar hard counter tau lists.

My post did say, in NO order... lol

you know its funny I read it as well and the "in no order" part didn't sink in to me either lol cause I was thinking the same thing that eldar are currently a little better than tau.

In order, I'd have to say

1.) Eldar - I think they take on all comers at this point pretty well
2.) Daemons- maybe , this one may take a hit from C:SM who I personally think ended up with a lot of goodies to hurt this army. tank hunter ,grav guns etc etc. yet to be seen though.
3.) Tau OR *possibly* the new C:SM.- Tau are good no doubt about it but its no secret that Marines are a more rounded army and just got better and I think we will see all sorts of them in tournaments soon.

all this is situational though cause if you're talking tournaments then you're also talking allies which play a key roll in this. AS could play a huge roll against Daemon armies but will likely just be an allied detachment of some other army.

http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/Feast-of-Blades-Invitational/2/leaderboard

This is my Top 3.

Tau
Eldar
Necrons


Daemons are close to making the Top3, but the randomness of their nature IMO will come to bite them in the a$$ when you are talking about a long series of games like what you may find in a GT (5-8 games).

Well, how are we defining top 3? Because the main 'top' armies are good at different things, for example, Tau are an above average shooting army on their own, but they can pull of some rediculous gak with the advent of allies.

Conversley, Eldar are so-so to average with allies but are absurd on their own.

Daemons can get up the table really quickly, but the Warp Storm table/chart means they really struggle at consistency.

Necrons are really reliable and you can predict their moves with chess-like precision.

So I pose to you the question, best at what?

1. Tau
2. Eldar
3. Daemons (barely ahead of Necrons).

 Krellnus wrote:
So I pose to you the question, best at what?

Winning games, presumably.

 jy2 wrote:
This is my Top 3.

Tau
Eldar
Necrons


Daemons are close to making the Top3, but the randomness of their nature IMO will come to bite them in the a$$ when you are talking about a long series of games like what you may find in a GT (5-8 games).

This. However, I'd eventually put Eldar above Tau. I battled Tau twice in RTTs with my Serpent spam and almost tabled it.

Thud wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:
So I pose to you the question, best at what?

Winning games, presumably.

Don't be obtuse. Different armies win through different means, so the OP must redefine the original question.

Pretty sure it's Taudar, Eldau and Tau/Farsight.

If we are just discussing Individual Codices (not ally combinations.). Looking at Some Tournament Stats (using Torrent of Fire) In order I would Put

1.) Eldar- Win 63% of their games, Do not have a losing record vs any army. They 50-50 against Necrons and Eldar(…surprise), Winning Record Vs Daemons and Tau. 35% of losses come to Other Eldar. IF you remove head to head match-ups Eldar win 67.5% of games.

2.) Tau - Win 63% of games. 31.4% of Their losses come to Eldar. Losing records against Eldar (lose 52.8%) and Daemons (very slightly lose 50.5%).66% win percentage if head to head Match-ups are removed. So they lose a little more than they win against the other top Armies but win a good deal more than they lose, especially when facing non- Eldar.

3.)Daemons- Win 60% of games. Losing records Against Necrons (lose 59.6%)and Eldar(Lose 56%). Eldar make up 28.6% of losses. Win 61.75% if you remove head to head Match-up. So they are ~50-50 against Tau and Lose to Eldar and Necrons. They do pretty well against other armies though.


and Just for Kicks

4.)Necrons- Win 54.6% of games. Losing records against Eldar (lose 50.7%), Tau (56.1%), Space Marines (75% loss, but not many games played). Good Against Daemons. Win 55% if you remove Head to Head.

No other book currently wins more than 50% of games.

Seriously guys. Stop speculating. Just look at torrent of fire. They show which armies are winning the big events.

This used to be a point of hot contention, but now a days its just a matter of looking it up.

If we want to Look at Allies, out of army combinations that have played at least 20 games.

1.) Eldar + Tau winning 71.7%
2.)Tau + Eldar Winning 68.25%
3.)Tau + Space Marines winning 66.67%
4.)Space Marines + Space Marines 65%
5.) Tau + Tau 63%
6.) Chaos Daemons + CSM 63%
7.) Eldar + Dark Eladr 61.8%
8.) Necrons +CSM 61.8%
9.) Necron + Tau 60%
10.) Tau 59.2%


So yeah Eldar and Tau rule the roost...7/10 top combos contain one of either Tau or Eldar.

Because of how the allies are being used:

tau/eldar
nercon
that one daemon list

Breng77 wrote:
If we want to Look at Allies, out of army combinations that have played at least 20 games.

1.) Eldar + Tau winning 71.7%
2.)Tau + Eldar Winning 68.25%
3.)Tau + Space Marines winning 66.67%
4.)Space Marines + Space Marines 65%
5.) Tau + Tau 63%
6.) Chaos Daemons + CSM 63%
7.) Eldar + Dark Eladr 61.8%
8.) Necrons +CSM 61.8%
9.) Necron + Tau 60%
10.) Tau 59.2%


So yeah Eldar and Tau rule the roost...7/10 top combos contain one of either Tau or Eldar.

Does this show what I think it does? Are armies with allies winning consistently more than armies without? I say this because #10 is Tau.

yes it does, there are more abusive combos with allies in most cases.

sisters of battle....our time will come....you'll see *rocks back and forth some more*

but really, gonna have to echo tau/eldar/deamons. can't argue with the tourny results :/

 labmouse42 wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
If we want to Look at Allies, out of army combinations that have played at least 20 games.

1.) Eldar + Tau winning 71.7%
2.)Tau + Eldar Winning 68.25%
3.)Tau + Space Marines winning 66.67%
4.)Space Marines + Space Marines 65%
5.) Tau + Tau 63%
6.) Chaos Daemons + CSM 63%
7.) Eldar + Dark Eladr 61.8%
8.) Necrons +CSM 61.8%
9.) Necron + Tau 60%
10.) Tau 59.2%


So yeah Eldar and Tau rule the roost...7/10 top combos contain one of either Tau or Eldar.

Does this show what I think it does? Are armies with allies winning consistently more than armies without? I say this because #10 is Tau.

Pure Eldar is winning a lot of games. Tau that allies Eldar does better than unallied Tau.

 Krellnus wrote:

Thud wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:
So I pose to you the question, best at what?

Winning games, presumably.

Don't be obtuse. Different armies win through different means, so the OP must redefine the original question.

How I define "top armies" are the armies most likely to win tournaments on a consistent basis. I think that is a good benchmark to see how good an army is. Whether they can consistently win against quality armies, such as the ones you will find at the top tables in tournament play.

1.) Orks
2.) Orks
3.) Orks

Why? Becauze ZOGG OFF! iz why!

charts and reports from a few tournies only lend a small fraction of credence to the topic.

Top 3 ive witnessed, played against, seen in tourneys and local games.

1) Necrons
2) Daemons
3) Eldar

Are you seriously implying that the Internet's collective data dumps of the world's largest and most famous GTs is less important than your narrow, anecdotal scope of what armies you see locally?

 phatonic wrote:
1.) Orks
2.) Orks
3.) Orks

Why? Becauze ZOGG OFF! iz why!

This. All this nonsense about Tau. I still squish them with my Orks.

Plus Orks win because they're the most fun to play

I have seen a huge drop in the effectiveness of tau outside of being allies or allying other things whereas other armies such as crons have remained at about the same standings despite new dexes. The feast of blades GT is a great example of this and shows how strong eldar are and how much they have killed the tau powerhouse but kept daemons and crons at similar rankings from before.

That being said the 3 best pure armies without allies or being used as allies are

1) Eldar
2) Daemons
2) Crons

Daemons and crons are about the same in rankings daemons did better then crons by I think .8% or some small number around that at feast of blades. The renegade GT should show if these armies will still remain constants in the competitive scene.

find it funny that so many are saying eldar are better than tau, yet 99% of the flame goes towards tau for being OP lol.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Are you seriously implying that the Internet's collective data dumps of the world's largest and most famous GTs is less important than your narrow, anecdotal scope owhat armies you see locally?

thats not what i said nor implied... i saw one chart from nova tourney posted. 400 players of about millions worldwide. and the thread was about opinions. I was speaking from my own opinion on what i see playing well outside my "local area". Speaking on my own experience on what i have trouble with when i play. You can be a bandwagon sheep all you want bud, but dont be a troll flamer also.. back to the topic at hand. Flame off...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
find it funny that so many are saying eldar are better than tau, yet 99% of the flame goes towards tau for being OP lol.

That's because what dominates at tournaments takes a bit to trickle down into the general meta. Eldar trump Tau pretty hard by the numbers and based on what I've seen at tournaments. Eldar are also a much harder match up for Daemons than Tau are. To the point where my Daemons list has to go full asymmetrical versus most Eldar builds; making for some pretty silly games.

BlackArmour wrote:

2.) Daemons- maybe , this one may take a hit from C:SM who I personally think ended up with a lot of goodies to hurt this army. tank hunter ,grav guns etc etc.

How are Grav Guns and Tank Hunter useful against Daemons? There's few vehicles and most units don't even have armor.

Tsilber wrote:
thats not what i said nor implied... i saw one chart from nova tourney posted. 400 players of about millions worldwide. and the thread was about opinions. I was speaking from my own opinion on what i see playing well outside my "local area". Speaking on my own experience on what i have trouble with when i play. You can be a bandwagon sheep all you want bud, but dont be a troll flamer also.. back to the topic at hand. Flame off...

This is exactly what you said:

Tsilber wrote:
charts and reports from a few tournies only lend a small fraction of credence to the topic.

Okay, so how about you back that up? I'm assuming your next statement is either supposed to be your explanation for this statement (protip: one person's anecdotal evidence does not trump a collective archive of data made by thousands of people). If not, then this next statement of yours,

Tsilber wrote:
Top 3 ive witnessed, played against, seen in tourneys and local games.

1) Necrons
2) Daemons
3) Eldar

is entirely irrelevant. Either you're using your own experience to prove that "charts aren't everything" or you're wasting everyone's time by posting what you see and that somehow means anything other than what you've seen in your limited experiences.

You are standing here saying you are right, and everyone else in the world is wrong and you're calling me the troll.