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To be honest, I don't think 5 riptides is all that good. The o'vesa star is great and a HBC riptide with earth cast pilot is great, but after that the extra riptides start needing more support. They are a pain to kill but don't actually do much damage, but that is just my observations.

Here is how I would equip my riptides.

Ovesa
Ion accelerator + Fusion blasters + target lock + EWO + talisman
HBC + SMS + target lock + earth cast pilot (second target lock is only 5 points and lets ovesa join you when you need to bust through tanks)
2x Ion accelerator + sms + EWO

As for tactics, you could try alternating out that second Riptide to shove wounds off of O'Vesa and the Buffmander.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lambsandlions wrote:
To be honest, I don't think 5 riptides is all that good. The o'vesa star is great and a HBC riptide with earth cast pilot is great, but after that the extra riptides start needing more support. They are a pain to kill but don't actually do much damage, but that is just my observations.

Here is how I would equip my riptides.

Ovesa
Ion accelerator + Fusion blasters + target lock + EWO + talisman
HBC + SMS + target lock + earth cast pilot (second target lock is only 5 points and lets ovesa join you when you need to bust through tanks)
2x Ion accelerator + sms + EWO

You actually can't take a second ECPA if you take O'Vesa... I just reread the Farsight Commander Team's paragraph last night and it only allows the models from The Eight to ignore the restriction of TE Signature Systems, not the "one per army" rule.

 Zagman wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Nightrunner wrote:
Interesting - you don't think a single HBC out if the five would be useful, over ripple-fire SMSs? I am also of the mindset that throwing AP2 templates at people can be unnerving and help me along a little.

One more thing, as it seems to keep coming up - my friends and I play hard lists, that aren't meant for fluff! we enjoy tough gaming, and if I play a six game tournament and lose every game with the list, then it or my tactics will need some improvement, but I'm not a complete douche - I've yet to fall out with someone over toy soldiers!

NR

As for sms: yup. I think so. Ap2 large blasts handle everything.

As for hard gaming: cool. My orientation is towards tourney play so I approach the game that way, but amongst buddies, whatever you guys are cool with is cool. Sadly the ugly side of human nature and gamer whininess requires one to be careful not to get tooooooo cheeky lest they deep six your sports score. I wish it werent so, but as it turns out, tabling people doesnt win you tournies, just ill will. But i get that you guys like extre lists and i give in occassionally to play those.

Except Flyers and FMCs. IA Riptides are far far less effective vs airborne targets.

And if the only thing he could take to handle flyers WAS the Riptides, sure, that would matter. But they aren't. they also aren't helpless against flyers either, especially with Markerlight help. so on the whole, I see no reason to compromose the overall quality of the list using Ion Cannons by accounting for something with them that they shouldn't have to worry about FIVE Riptides later. lol. i mean if that flyer is REALLY that worrisome to a 5 RIPTIDE army, then the 15 STR 7 Markerlight aided shots should be plenty if need be. but I don't see that it makes much sense to make the Riptides your only antiair answer.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

Except Flyers and FMCs. IA Riptides are far far less effective vs airborne targets.

And if the only thing he could take to handle flyers WAS the Riptides, sure, that would matter. But they aren't. they also aren't helpless against flyers either, especially with Markerlight help. so on the whole, I see no reason to compromose the overall quality of the list using Ion Cannons by accounting for something with them that they shouldn't have to worry about FIVE Riptides later. lol. i mean if that flyer is REALLY that worrisome to a 5 RIPTIDE army, then the 15 STR 7 Markerlight aided shots should be plenty if need be. but I don't see that it makes much sense to make the Riptides your only antiair answer.

Umm, that makes very little sense and is tactically a terrible idea. Have you even read what kind of a list the OP is planning? 5 Riptides at 1650pts.

IA Riptides, even with VTs, are not good AA options. Glad to acknowledge that. But, what other AA are you talking about? Its a 1650pt list with nothing but Farsight, five Riptides, and Base Suit Troops. There is no other AA so Riptides have to be able to accomplish that goal.

Lol, the easiest way to lose a game is shoot your five IA Riptides at a Flyer. Even and IA Riptide with a Buffcommander for Twinlinked and Tank Hunter deals .8 HP to a Helldrake Per Turn. Without the BuffCommander a VT IA Riptide deals .3 HP/Turn to a Helldrake. Half of those are Glances. Dual HellDrakes will kill every scoring unit in his army over the course of a game.

You mention Markerlight support, you mean those Snap Shot Markerlights. In a five Riptide list how many markerlights are to taking? Certainly not in the 1650pt army the OP is talking about. Even at 1850, you aren't going to have much markerlight support.

I fully recommend the OP drop one Riptide in favor of two SkyRays. Its a much stronger build overall.

Seems like a lot of money to spend, since your friends may play one or 2 games with that list and then tell you never again. I don't understand people that get enjoyment out of waac tactics, or how they can be baffled later when they cant get games.

 Zagman wrote:


Umm, that makes very little sense and is tactically a terrible idea. Have you even read what kind of a list the OP is planning? 5 Riptides at 1650pts.

IA Riptides, even with VTs, are not good AA options. Glad to acknowledge that. But, what other AA are you talking about? Its a 1650pt list with nothing but Farsight, five Riptides, and Base Suit Troops. There is no other AA so Riptides have to be able to accomplish that goal.

Lol, the easiest way to lose a game is shoot your five IA Riptides at a Flyer. Even and IA Riptide with a Buffcommander for Twinlinked and Tank Hunter deals .8 HP to a Helldrake Per Turn. Without the BuffCommander a VT IA Riptide deals .3 HP/Turn to a Helldrake. Half of those are Glances. Dual HellDrakes will kill every scoring unit in his army over the course of a game.

You mention Markerlight support, you mean those Snap Shot Markerlights. In a five Riptide list how many markerlights are to taking? Certainly not in the 1650pt army the OP is talking about. Even at 1850, you aren't going to have much markerlight support.

I fully recommend the OP drop one Riptide in favor of two SkyRays. Its a much stronger build overall.

I read it yes and didn't recommend it. However he's not asking if we're recommending it. He's asking how to arm them is he not?

And at 1650, he'll be more than fine against ALL threats with 5 Riptides as long as he has missiles and Ion. Because nothing will ever get close enough to matter. the real threat is his scoring units being too easy to wipe. But as for the Riptides: He'll be fine.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Zagman wrote:


Umm, that makes very little sense and is tactically a terrible idea. Have you even read what kind of a list the OP is planning? 5 Riptides at 1650pts.

IA Riptides, even with VTs, are not good AA options. Glad to acknowledge that. But, what other AA are you talking about? Its a 1650pt list with nothing but Farsight, five Riptides, and Base Suit Troops. There is no other AA so Riptides have to be able to accomplish that goal.

Lol, the easiest way to lose a game is shoot your five IA Riptides at a Flyer. Even and IA Riptide with a Buffcommander for Twinlinked and Tank Hunter deals .8 HP to a Helldrake Per Turn. Without the BuffCommander a VT IA Riptide deals .3 HP/Turn to a Helldrake. Half of those are Glances. Dual HellDrakes will kill every scoring unit in his army over the course of a game.

You mention Markerlight support, you mean those Snap Shot Markerlights. In a five Riptide list how many markerlights are to taking? Certainly not in the 1650pt army the OP is talking about. Even at 1850, you aren't going to have much markerlight support.

I fully recommend the OP drop one Riptide in favor of two SkyRays. Its a much stronger build overall.

I read it yes and didn't recommend it. However he's not asking if we're recommending it. He's asking how to arm them is he not?

And at 1650, he'll be more than fine against ALL threats with 5 Riptides as long as he has missiles and Ion. Because nothing will ever get close enough to matter. the real threat is his scoring units being too easy to wipe. But as for the Riptides: He'll be fine.

Except for a dual Heldrake or Vendettas, or Storm Ravens, or Night Scythes, or even Storm Talons list which will obliterate his troops without threat of retribution. All IA is not an effective AA strategy, and with troops as vulnerable as his will be that is a poor strategy. Hell, with your recommendations just about any list with two flyers or worse multiple Flying Monsterous Creatures will beat the OP. That is a problem.

DirtyDeeds wrote:
As for tactics, you could try alternating out that second Riptide to shove wounds off of O'Vesa and the Buffmander.

You actually can't take a second ECPA if you take O'Vesa... I just reread the Farsight Commander Team's paragraph last night and it only allows the models from The Eight to ignore the restriction of TE Signature Systems, not the "one per army" rule.

Here is the Oct 13 FAQ:

When choosing a Farsight Enclaves army with Commander
Farsight as its Warlord, you may take Farsight’s Commander
Team instead of Farsight's XV8 Crisis Bodyguard Team. The
Commander Team is an HQ choice that does not take up a
Force Organisation slot and consists of up to seven battlesuits
chosen from those listed on pages 38-39. They must be
equipped exactly as described; the Signature Systems rule
above does not apply to them. They can take no other options.
Each of the Commander Team models is Unique and has the
Independent Character special rule.

The signature system rule does not apply to them, meaning you can have ECPA on a riptide and on O'vesa.

 lambsandlions wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
As for tactics, you could try alternating out that second Riptide to shove wounds off of O'Vesa and the Buffmander.

You actually can't take a second ECPA if you take O'Vesa... I just reread the Farsight Commander Team's paragraph last night and it only allows the models from The Eight to ignore the restriction of TE Signature Systems, not the "one per army" rule.

Here is the Oct 13 FAQ:

When choosing a Farsight Enclaves army with Commander
Farsight as its Warlord, you may take Farsight’s Commander
Team instead of Farsight's XV8 Crisis Bodyguard Team. The
Commander Team is an HQ choice that does not take up a
Force Organisation slot and consists of up to seven battlesuits
chosen from those listed on pages 38-39. They must be
equipped exactly as described; the Signature Systems rule
above does not apply to them. They can take no other options.
Each of the Commander Team models is Unique and has the
Independent Character special rule.

The signature system rule does not apply to them, meaning you can have ECPA on a riptide and on O'vesa.

Umm, if you have the codex or digital verion you will notice the Signature Systems rule it is referencing is not the one that imposes the One per army limit. That is in a different section. So, truculently RAW, you cannot. That is referencing how the Commanders are excluded from the rule that states they must choose FE Sig Systems when they are equipped with C:TE Sig Systems.

 Zagman wrote:


Except for a dual Heldrake or Vendettas, or Storm Ravens, or Night Scythes, or even Storm Talons list which will obliterate his troops without threat of retribution. All IA is not an effective AA strategy, and with troops as vulnerable as his will be that is a poor strategy. Hell, with your recommendations just about any list with two flyers or worse multiple Flying Monsterous Creatures will beat the OP. That is a problem.

Still dont understand your point,. His Aegis can knock one of those birds out. You dont think his Riptides will do the rest? At 1650?

Come on man.

Hi all,

Thanks for all the comments and critique over the idea; in practice, it worked quite well and I went to a 1650 tournament here in the UK.

It was a 6-round, rulebook mission tournament, but where secondaries didn't count towards winning the game (only to your overall score). So a lot of objective games!

This was the third and final heat of three to qualify for the annual UK Independent GT Finals, which will take place in March.

I ran the following:

Farsight
O'Vesa
Buff commander with 2xFlamer, Onager gauntlet, C&C Node, MSS, PEN Chip, Vectored Retro Thrusters, Iridium Armour

Riptide with IA/Fusion, Target Lock, EWO
Riptide with IA/SMS, Talisman of Arthos Moloch, EWO
Riptide with HBC/SMS, Target Lock, EWO
Riptide with HBC/SMS, Velocity Tracker, EWO

3 Crisis Suits, bonding knife, 1 had a flamer!
1 crisis suit, 2xflamer
1 crisis suit, 2xflamer
6 Fire Warriors

1649pts

So, pretty crap scoring, but I can reserve it all and deep strike to try and hide it as much as possible...

I have some pics, but mostly just of deployment, my phone battery is terrible :-/

GAME 1: 5 Objectives, Hammer & Anvil
Pat, running Tau/Eldar allies;
Buff commander & 2 marker drones
Farseer with Mantle, jet bike, spear (Fortune, Presience, Guide)

2xWave Serpent with Holofields&Scatter lasers & 5 DAs
2xFire Warriors
Riptide with interceptor/skyfire/IA/Fusion
Riptide with interceptor/skyfire/IA/Fusion
2 Broadsides, HYMPs, Marker drones
2 Skyrays

I went second in this game, but basically due to a lack of complete LOS blocking terrain, was able to drop two IA ignore cover shots onto the broadside/commander marker unit turn 1, leaving a wounded commander and a single suit. From there, I pushed the centre, ignoring the wave serpents and skyrays initially to whittle down the riptide that didn't have Fortune each turn or that failed its Nova charge. My fire warriors were hidden right at the back on objective, but by the end all of my troops bar one double-flamer who had made a suicide run on some Fire Warriors were alive and on objectives. However, by the start of my turn 5, I had not lost a riptide and had to kill an immobilised skyray with 1HP and 8 Dire avengers to win, so we called it there. A good game, but my opponent thought he didn't have a lot to get through 2+/3++ saves.

GAME 2: Relic, Dawn of War
Will, running IG:

Command squad w/Astropath
infantry platoon (Command, 2xsquad, 2xAutocannon heavy weapons teams)
Plasma Vets
2xManticore
Leman russ squadron of 2 tanks (basic, no upgrades)
3xVendetta
Marbo
Aegis

This game, I didn't pick deployment or go first, my opponent deployed everything bar the Russ's behind his Aegis and off we went. His first round of barrage did nothing, with Farsight hiding inside of a ruin to avoid being sniped and most of his artillery scattering a lot; I think I might have wounded a riptide. My turn 1, I 4D6'd two of my suits and ended the turn within 8" of his Leman russes, whilst my other shooting killed the command squad, platoon command, a heavy weapons team, a manticore and stunned the other manticore. Marbo and a single Vendetta arrived turn 2, but Farsight passed his Invun after a failed LOS and Marbo died to Fire warriors turn 2.

My single skyfire suit joined the 'bomb unit turn 2 and shot down the vendetta and after assaults etc he just had a single autocannon team left. Both Vendettas arrived, wounded O'vesa a couple of times, then one suit killed a Vendetta with an SMS pen, the other skyfire suit and O'Vesa (now manning a Quad Gun ) killed the rest. A really bad matchup, but my opponent was great throughout and I think knew going in that he didn't have a lot to force saves on me. We were finished inside 30 minutes!


GAME 3: Big Guns, Vanguard Strike
Tim running White scars & Wolves
Khan
Chapter master with shield eternal/bike/fist
Rune priest with Jaws

5 bikes, grav/grav/combi-grav
5 bikes, grav/grav/combi-grav
5 bikes, grav/grav/combi-grav
5 bikes, grav/grav
5 bikes, grav/grav
5 Grey Hunters

Thunderfire
Thunderfire

Well, I lost this one on the Seize - I had first turn, still deployed cautiously in case of it, but Tim scouted and hoped for that magic 6 and got it! I didn't manage a single denial turn 1 or 2 and so riptides fell in holes and Grav did it's thing! By the end, I had O'vesa and a single drone left, in his deployment for linebreaker, lol. Looking back, there wasn't much I could do - he had a Chooser of the slain, so if I had taken kroot, they couldnt have infiltrated up to block his scout moves, although I did use the same tactic with the two single crisis suits right at the front of my DZ. Tim was really cool and nearly deployed cautiously, but fortune favours the bold and he smashed me! I do think that I could have made a game of it had I gone first, but that will have to wait and see for another day I guess.



GAME 4: Vanguard strike, Emperors Will
Playing James, with Eldar/DE

Farseer with shard & Bike
Farseer with bike
Baron
19 Hounds/2 Razorwing beast pack
4xbikes
5 DE warriors
2 Wraithknights
2 Hornets (FW skimmer, separate squadrons) with 2xPulse Laser each

Well, this was a tough match, and I managed to drag it to the line, but I think that there were a couple of points where I could have been a bit smarter with my troops and held my objective to at least get the draw... However, I was sooooooooo hungover (I had to go be ill after deployment and once mid-game!!!!) that a lot of my tactics went a bit wonky. I went first and killed units in a ruin that would hide his objective perfectly all game, spotting a single guy through a window James had failed to notice and getting two IA shots in there for first blood

Over the course of five turns, I killed the Wraithknights as they came on from reserve (he had used them to whittle down my troops) but I should have, turn 5, put my last crisis suit into the bomb and shielded him from incoming fire, as well as send more than one riptide towards his objective... However, I did not, and despite having killed the Baron and the beast pack (with fortune) turn 6, his single hornet, two jetbikes and a farseer did enough to kill a Riptide with three wounds to win the game, 1 objective to none, although I had four of 5 riptides alive with only one wounded. James thought I could have pushed up a lot more and simply SMSd him off the objectives, which was probably true, but I was lucky to get through my games without being sick more times!!!!!



GAME 5: Kill points, Hammer & Anvil
Lee running Necrons

Lord with MSS&scythe in a Barge
Destroyer lord with MSS
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
2xAnni Barge
2xGhost Ark with 5 warriors with a Cryptek (haywire?)
2x5 Warriors with Night scythe

Lee is a club mate, so it was a bit rubbish that we had to play seeing as you need about 3 wins of 6 to qualify, and we had two each. The table we played on was pretty poor scenery wise - just about 15 low-height forests or bits of rubble, only 1 of which in his DZ corner high enough to hide infantry behind. So, Lee got first turn and ran at me with everything; I deployed almost on my table edge and shot him, killing the command barge, an Annihilation barge and 5/6 Wraiths first turn, then all of the other wraiths, a ghost ark and the other ark second turn. His Destroyer Lord and Overlord both made it into combats with riptides and I lost one, but the other smashed his destoyer lord down (he had been reduced to 1 wound when his wraiths had been shot). Neither Lord got back up. Meanwhile, at the other end, his two units of ghost ark troops had walked on from reserves and had been duelling my DS'ing Crisis teams. By the end, they had all wiped each other out, we both got linebreaker but I had won after killing all his tanks and assault units.

GAME 6: Scouring, Pitched Battle
Chris with Tyranids:

Flyrant with 2xDevourers
Flyrant with 2xDevourers
2xTervigon
2x10 gaunts
Doom in pod
5 Ymgarl
Trygon Prime
Mawloc

Chris won the roll for table sides after having stacked most of the obectives (4-2) on one, but I got first turn so he reserved both flyrants, trygon, and hid his tervigons and gaunts behind a ruin in one corner, his mawloc in the other. Turn 1, I put three wounds on a Tervigon, taking it down turn 2 whilst his army shuffled. Turn 2, everything but his Trygon came in. After a lot of care to ensure Doom could do some damage but avoid Intercepting Fusion shots, I fired everything but the bomb and killed doom and the Ymgarl before they could do anything, whilst the Mawloc scattered off anything it could hurt.

Turn 3, everyone shuffled as they couldn't shoot, and the bomb killed a Mawloc; from there, Chris was very unlucky with his shooting, getting below average results and failing to kill my 3-crisis suit team and my firewarriors after inflicting a lot of hits with devourers and me passing LD tests at -1. Throughout the game, I had been aggressively DSing my two, double-flamer suits, as there were a lot of little gaunts bunched up. Turn 4, a few thing happened to really swing things from close to good for me; first, a tyrant had engaged a Riptide in CC with one would left, so I nova'd him and died, leaving the flyrant to be shot. The remaining HBC and IA suit killed him, allowing the star to kill an unwounded tervigon with ripple fire fusions and IA shots, whilst both flamer suits arrived bang on target and after 16 and 14 hits, wiped out two units of termagants, leaving him another unit of gaunts and a flyrant. Turn 4, his Trygon arrived, and everything shot it with interceptor, killing him ( he had to come quite close to me due to the proximity of my crisis teams to my Riptides). By game end, I had joined a single crisis suit to the O'vesa/Commander/Farsight combo, to give him no chance to get to me, using the other 3 riptides to block off objectives. Game ended turn 5, 2 objectives to nil! Chris is a great guy to play, having played him at a number of previous tournaments, but having to go second really hurt him as he was forced to hide a lot of his big hitters where, otherwise, he could have forced me back with the threat of assaults turn 2 from flyrants, AND doom arriving/Ymgarls/Trygon/Mawloc etc.
________________________________

The list is a lot fun, is what I have to say here! It is nowhere near as broken or as unfriendly to play, IMO, as a screamerstar, which is basically your opponent playing against his own luck, but it is a strong list. In hidnsight, a seize by a great counter list and some good play from my opponent/drunken antics from me cost me two games where I could at least have drawn the missions. Overall, I got 4 wins and two losses and came 8th, so have qualified for the final, which was the main aim.

In terms of the list... Would one less riptide and two skyrays have been helpful? Maybe, but I think that having 5 really helps the whole nature of the list. My favourite weapon is the SMS, ripple fire with that was doing me wonders all weekend. Against flyers, I didn't really struggle, but I think that was down to the list largely being flyer resistant - I agree that a FMC-spam daemon list would likely have caused me issues but there was only a single person running that format of Daemons at this tournaments. If flyers start in reserve, the list has enough tools to do significant damage to the rest of your opponent's army before they can arrive, and even then I can still intercept at least one of them with the skyfire suit.

I like the split of IA/HBC, that works really well, but I might well swap the other IA for another HBC, as that unbuffed riptide on his own doesn't do as much as the HBC suits, unbuffed, did!

So, to summarise, I don't think this list suffers too much without markerlights etc. to help. However, I am planning to take this to some 1850 tournaments in the coming months and am not sure what else to add apart from the fact that the troops need some buffing to really help the list out.

NR

PS If any of my opponents read this, I hope there is nothing to offend with or inaccurate - they were all top guys to play and I had a real blast of a weekend :-)

 Zagman wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

Except Flyers and FMCs. IA Riptides are far far less effective vs airborne targets.

Exactly and theres where the HBC with Velocity Tracker comes in handy, not to mention including the ECPA with it as well to give it more reliability to novacharge.

I completely agree, but the person I was responding to was recommending all IA. I like the HBC Riptide.

I know, I was agreeing with your assessment.

sounds like a good time. maybe drink less next time.

Sounds like you had a good time!

I like 2 burst cannons and 2 IA when I run a similar list.

surprised you loaded so much equipment on the troop suits, ive found running them naked more efficient...whats your thoughts on that? Ive found 6 troops minimum at 1850, thinking the same?

Jpr wrote:
Sounds like you had a good time!

I like 2 burst cannons and 2 IA when I run a similar list.

surprised you loaded so much equipment on the troop suits, ive found running them naked more efficient...whats your thoughts on that? Ive found 6 troops minimum at 1850, thinking the same?

Yeah, the troops did quite well - with this kind of list, the extra few points can be spent on the units you do have, as it helps if they can have a go at killing something! The double flamer suits were great, and worth throwing into the backfield sometimes just to be annoying. The three crisis suits need some weapons as they could then be more of a distraction backfield if they had more than a flamer between them (and I always deep strike them in).

I shouldn't have had two flamers on my buff commander, but it was simply a case of time that I didn't have time to change him up.

If I were going to run the 1650 version again, I would certainly swap 6 FW for 10 kroot, as I think that they make a much better blocking unit and with a hound, can be another annoying unit to appear in my opponent's backfield.

At 1850, I would probably have 3 Crisis suits, 4x1 suicide suit and a unit of kroot &hound. It leaves me a few extra points, maybe enough for a single skyway with BSF. I think the extra anti-flyer would be useful at 1850?

NR

Yeah that's roughly the amount of troops I run at 1850.

I've been liking the 3 man unit equipped with burst cannons, pretty good at hunting small units of bikes and such. Missiles lets them sit at the back and still contribute. The double flamer seems nifty and rather suicidal.

Definitely kroot over firewarriors!