Void__Dragon wrote: And Lucius? Kharn is probably better than him.
Erebus was able to give Lucius a very good fight, and almost fought him to a stalemate.
Kharn fething destroyed Erebus. It was the single most one-sided Space Marine fight I've ever read about in a 40k novel. Kharn attacks Erebus three times in the time it took Erebus to blink, he batters him around, cuts his hand off, and cuts his spine in half. Erebus only survived through the use of sorcery; he teleported away. Kharn was crushing him so casually that he was friggin' bored, lol. Kharn at his best is simply one of, if not the most dangerous Marine in h2h during the Heresy, with the possible exception of Argel Tal, whose daemonic possession gives him quite the advantage.
Agreed, Kharne is nothing short of a demi-god himself, especially after getting crushed at the Siege of Terra and being angry enough to come back to life.
lol That said, we're dealing with a difference of skill-sets at this point. Think of it like this. Kharne is crazy strong to the point you can't guard him because he'll just hatchet through your guard. This is made worse when you consider he's wielding Gorechild and (god forbid) BBoS. I can think of no greater combo of devastation, except maybe my Sorcerer with BBoS zooming around on a Disc of Tzeentch. Fluffwise, you can think of Kharne and Lucius on the extremes of two battle styles and Erebus kind of in the middle, making him ineffectual against both. So if you put the two extremes against each other, then Lucius' finesse, compared with the fact that fighting him is inviting defeat, Kharne can't win. Perhaps he doesn't lose, except in the technicality as a Berzerker that if he doesn't take a skull and spill blood, he's losing, which Lucius' being the sneak that he is, would use to his advantage. It's just fortunate enough for Kharne that getting angry means getting better.
lol It's not a fight I'd like to invite because they are just so different and extreme in their styles. It's like putting either of them against Typhus, for example. He's crazy strong and would probably beat them both, but that's because he has the Destroyer Plague that would eat them both alive. But then in h2h, he's so slow Lucius and Kharne could both take him single-handedly, what with the obvious downside of being a fat body is guys like that dance circles around you.
lol BlaxicanX wrote:Unless Erebus fighting Lucius to a standstill happened recently, I don't see how its really relevant. Lucius has shown the most rapid increase in martial skill in the entire series behind Lorgar. In the space of a year he went from getting one-shotted by Loken to destroying him in moments and casually solo'ing the Phoenix Guard. Less than a year after that he's fighting entire squads of enemies by himself and destroying them while doing silly gak like holding one hand behind his back or hopping around on one leg, because fighting normally would be too boring and easy.
It's just absurd how powerful Lucius' madness made him, and it's all because of Loken in that first fight.
lol It was at that moment he learned what it meant to fight for real, and how boring that would be against any atypical opponent. Hence his mockery of the fight on foot one. But then when you've got the Chaos Gods looking out for you, you don't really have to fight, ever.
Edit:
Void__Dragon wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:Unless Erebus fighting Lucius to a standstill happened recently, I don't see how its really relevant. Lucius has shown the most rapid increase in martial skill in the entire series behind Lorgar. In the space of a year he went from getting one-shotted by Loken to destroying him in moments and casually solo'ing the Phoenix Guard. Less than a year after that he's fighting entire squads of enemies by himself and destroying them while doing silly gak like holding one hand behind his back or hopping around on one leg, because fighting normally would be too boring and easy.
And similarly a Kharn that was incapable of any rational thought was beating Torgaddon and Loken at the same time in martial combat (They had to use a Dozer blade to beat him as you recall). As for mook-killing, to be blunt I'm not really that impressed, Kharn does the same gak every other scene in Betrayer, hacking through Tetharchs (Sp?) one after another, alongside "lesser" combatants. And while Lucius has improved since he dueled Erebus, we haven't seen evidence of improvement to the extent that he'd be capable of outright dominating a renowned (If cowardly) warrior like Erebus. Kharn's blows were literally so quick as to not be perceived by fellow Space Marines, which
IIRC has never been the case for Lucius.
Not true, about Lucius attaining that measure of combat prowess. Think of it like this: The elite of the Emperor's Children pride themselves on their martial ability and skill with the sword. Lucius embodies this very thing. In his rematch with Loken, Loken outright tells you in his own thoughts that Lucius is playing with him, to the point of trying to disgrace Loken as Lucius felt himself disgraced in their first fight. Simply put, Loken could barely see Lucius blows, and he
knew Lucius was holding back, as he always does now that he's in full swing with Slaanesh.
About Torgaddon and Loken fighting Kharn, I'd love to read that fight unless it's something I already have and don't remember. I think I vaguely recall them talking about Kharn's martial prowess with some measure of awe. Perhaps I do recall them talking about trying to fight Kharn in the arena. I dunno. Have to go back and look through my
HH books.
