Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2013/11/14 07:20:05
Subject: Game #3 of 3 - 2K Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons vs Mortetvie's Eldau (Completed)
mortetvie wrote: Was a good game and close until the end- congrats Jim. Some things that really helped seal my fate this game:
- I actually did 4 of the 5 wounds to my riptide from nova charging.:(
-Jim rolled super well to hit against an invisible unit.
-Jim rolled super well despite being misfortuned (rolled actually as if he had been fortuned.
-failing that hit & run roll turn 3 was cruisial.
-you can try to hide the jetbikes but there was no place that completely blocked LOS or that Jim couldn't get to...in the Golden Throne GT there were plenty of places to hide my jetbikes and that is what I did and won. It comes down to terrain, your opponent's mobility and capability to get places that determines if you can hide anything at all-really.
-Other than that I did roll like a boss on that one jetbike and wraithguard model lol!
This game taught me:
-that having the buffmander more tanky is a must so I started putting on a shield generator/stimulant injector.
-having t4 on Farseer would be nice so I started to give him a jetbike-bonus if he isn't warlord so I can turbo and contest objectives late game without risking warlord.
-when dealing with his kind of list, you need more AA; 2-3 reliable threats to air would be ideal.
I think with a few tweaks I can be more than a match for Jim next time we play. Stay tuned everyone for another BR in the near future where Jim loses .
Thanks Adam.
I'll use this as your Post-game Analysis.
tiber55 wrote: MSS is the bane of wraithknights, they are very good at punching themselves, and since you normally are charging them into squads alone....
You could always change a list after the fact, say bring 10 units of 3 jetbikes instead of the wraithguard, but as you can see he only had 2 units with him.....
The list in general is a certain style, its different from most tau/dar as it is centered on wraithguard and reaper star as heavy hitters.
I still get the feeling that the west coast plays for wins and the tactical subtley of lets hide 6 units of 3 jetbikes (4 1 man crisis teams, 4 10 man kroot squads ect) all over the board and hope to grab/contest objectives is from the east coast. Not to say that the west coast can't play with subtley but we don't build our lists around it.
At least where I play in so cal its definetly smash first and contest objectives as needed. Not, hide and hope that at the end you have better scoring going 2nd than you opponent (thats what necrons are for ).
I am sure the 180 degree firing arc is there for two reasons, one, it gives you a 2nd turn of shooting for non vector dancer units heading straight on, and its much much simpler for tournaments rather than trying to make a paper cone and argueing about if its in or not.
Sitting on top of a bastion is barrage bait, any army with barrage will literally salavate if you put 3 exarchs and a buff commander on top of a bastion. Thats not to say you wont get barrage sniped behind an aegis, but at least there you can spread out.
BTW just wanted to say thank you to you two for the battle reports they are good read, even if it reinforces how silly silly necron's are to me, and how eldar really do need to work hard to counter them.
Also mort i would be careful with the buff commander adding the stims is cheap and helps a ton v.s. things that ignore cover/armor, and also against small arms fire as you get a 2nd roll to save, but the shield generator is soooooo expensive, 80% of the time you have a better save.
You're welcome.
I'm not so sure this is a west coast/east coast thing. Rather, I think it is more of a personal preference and play-style thing. I actually played against another Eldau reaper-star player, only, he ran a full 10-man reaper-star, a crimson hunter, 3x war walkers, 2 units of warp spiders and 5x3 jetbikes with no wraithknights. Your strategy really depends on how you design your list, but I can tell you that a good player will alter their tactics as needed depending on who and what they face. The key is being flexible and sometimes, even stepping out of your comfort zone....kinda like me reserving all 5 of my annihilation barges in a tournament against a triple-riptide/9-broadside Tau player.
Necrons indeed are a silly army. They are silly good, especially when you are going double-FOC's, and in the right hands, will just dominate most other armies. I think they stack up well against Eldar. However, there is one competitive eldar build that I haven't really played against yet with my necrons - the seer council Deldar. I can tell you this much....when I do play against them, I don't expect to lose.
iGuy91 wrote: Man, these games are just brutal. I know thats the point, but man, I wouldn't want to have to play either of these lists if I could help it Well done again, and another well written BR
I don't blame you. I wouldn't want to use these lists in normal play either! I'd only use my competitive crons in tournament play or if my opponent requests to play against them for tournament practice. Fortunately for my tournament opponents, I rarely bring the same army to 2 tournaments in a row. I've just got too many armies and need to "spread the love" between them.
mortetvie wrote: The shield generator IS expensive but it helps against other shots that might otherwise ignore armor and cover-such as from other tau armies or if someone gets perfect timing in a unit with AP 2 shooting. As far as I am concerned, I'll never leave home without it!
Personally, I wouldn't take it. With 2+ cover from conceal, you don't really need it. It's only real use is if the unit gets assaulted or if the Commander splits off to join a riptide. If your opponent has any high-strength low-AP guns, most likely they're going to go after your wraithknights first, especially if you're playing against Tau. Wraithknights are a huge threat to his riptides and broadsides whereas your AP3 dark reapers....not so much.
mortetvie wrote: I give him C&C node if points permit for an extra guide; MSSS for the ignoring cover bonus; PTNEC for the special rules; iridium armor for T5 and 2+ save; vectored retro thrusters for hit & run; shield generator for 4++; stimulant injector for 5+ FNP. This brigs him to around 205 and if I really want to blow more points I CAN get 2 shield drones for some extra bodies.
This guy makes dark reapers resilient and increadily potet in shooting. Only thing that they struggle with is lotsa 2+ saves but the rest of the army should help with that. He can also join the riptide if needed.
Also-this is just one way to play eldar. When Eldar first came out I was thinking "if only reapers could get Tank/MC hunter and ignores cover" then Tau came out so I put the two together for great effect. The army relies on the reapers to do the heavy lifting while the rest of the army supports them and gets objectives/contests. It's probably not the most efficient but it's a fun list I have been working on and even now it is more efficient and better than when I last played Jim .
I think my favorite way to play Eldar is with a lot of wraithguard so maybe I'll make an iyanden list and play Jim for fun .
I'd like to emphasize this point - "for fun" and "fun list". I think that should be the over-riding reason to play the lists that we play. Don't just play a certain list because others tell you you should. Play it because it may be a list or play-style that would be fun to play for you.
For me personally, I enjoy playing very strong lists...but only if it is against other strong lists. I also like variety, which is why I have so many different armies and different builds. So if my opponent brings a more casual list, I will play against him with a more casual list as well. And if my opponent wants a challenge, well, I will make it a challenge for him. But whatever lists I run, it will always be a list that I think I will have fun with.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/14 07:39:10
Guys, if anything-my reapers need more cow bell =D! Also, since I started taking shield generator on the buffmander I have never regretted it-personal preference perhaps but it really does shore up some of my army's weaknesses IMO.
For those that don't what the above us about/from...shame on you and check the link below:
Spoiler:
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/11/14 09:15:56
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
I think the failed Hit and Run at I5 was paramount and really changed the game.
I really like the Jetbike assault to reduce the effect of MSS from ~1/2 to ~1/4, well done.
I second your sentiment on the Shield Generator and your BuffCommander loadout. I add the NSJ, Onager, and Cyclic Ion Blaster as well. Becomes an incredible tank vs everything short of MCs and S10 Shooting.
Yeah, the Hit-&-Run would've made a difference in this game. How much, I can't really say, but it'll probably make the game much, much closer.
The jetbike move was a necessity to preserve his wraithknight. However, it was also a big gamble by my opponent. He could have very easily ended up losing both his WK and unit of jetbikes. However, overall, it was a gamble worth taking and I would have done the same if I was in his shoes.
Being slow and purposeful lets them move white a bit an if in this game I could have hit & run Jim would have lost his wraiths and the reapers would have been in a spot to take out anything else of Jim's (we rolled for fun if the wraiths would have it iced my shooting/WRaithknight and they wouldn't have).
So yeah-I'll have to experiment with different things and already have a list in mind for my next rematch with Jim !
When we did the experimental "successful" Hit-&-Run, I believe I lost 3-4 wraiths from your shooting. However, at the time we really didn't know how many wraiths I had left at that point. Now going through the report, my wraithstar was still at full strength so some of them would have survived (most likely the Lord + 2 wraiths). So it still could have been anyone's game, though I'd admit that it would have made for a much closer game.
You'll definitely get a chance to try out your new list the next time we meet though I'll say this right now....
I don't expect my Necrons to ever lose to the pointy-eared ones. j.k.!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mortetvie wrote: Guys, if anything-my reapers need more cow bell =D! Also, since I started taking shield generator on the buffmander I have never regretted it-personal preference perhaps but it really does shore up some of my army's weaknesses IMO.
That's cool. Glad it's going good for you. Nothing beats conventional wisdom than your own experiences.
Heck, people often wonder why I give my D-lord a Resurrection Orb when he's in a unit that doesn't benefit from it. But I still keep on running him with it. So if it's working for you, then keep at it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/14 21:55:01
.
).
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
