Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Because the unsaved wound is what's causing ID. You can't remove one from the other.

It's a STR8 wound. By the definition on oage 16 a STR8 wound is an ID wound to a T4 model.

ummmm, no it says "If a model suffers an unsaved Wound from an Attack that has a Strength value of double its Toughness value or greater (after modifiers), it is reduced to 0 Wounds and removed as a casualty."

That does not say it's an 'ID wound', you need the SR for that. It does describe the circumstances in which the rule will effect the model and what that effect does. It does not specifically attach that to the wound though. Remember the wound is not even the direct trigger for ID, it is the model suffering the wound that does so as the statement is put forth.

So you have a S8 attack that does not directly cause ID (no SR) and does not indirectly cause ID (no end effect of ID due to EW).

Because the S is 8 and the T is 4.. its that simple.

 Abandon wrote:
ummmm, no it says "If a model suffers an unsaved Wound from an Attack that has a Strength value of double its Toughness value or greater (after modifiers), it is reduced to 0 Wounds and removed as a casualty."

That does not say it's an 'ID wound', you need the SR for that. It does describe the circumstances in which the rule will effect the model and what that effect does. It does not specifically attach that to the wound though. Remember the wound is not even the direct trigger for ID, it is the model suffering the wound that does so as the statement is put forth.

So you have a S8 attack that does not directly cause ID (no SR) and does not indirectly cause ID (no end effect of ID due to EW).

S8 attacks on T4 models absolutely directly cause ID. You're trying to separate the two (meaning that it would be possible to have a S8 wound not ID a T4 model without EW) with no rules support.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Abandon wrote:
ummmm, no it says "If a model suffers an unsaved Wound from an Attack that has a Strength value of double its Toughness value or greater (after modifiers), it is reduced to 0 Wounds and removed as a casualty."

That does not say it's an 'ID wound', you need the SR for that. It does describe the circumstances in which the rule will effect the model and what that effect does. It does not specifically attach that to the wound though. Remember the wound is not even the direct trigger for ID, it is the model suffering the wound that does so as the statement is put forth.

So you have a S8 attack that does not directly cause ID (no SR) and does not indirectly cause ID (no end effect of ID due to EW).

S8 attacks on T4 models absolutely directly cause ID. You're trying to separate the two (meaning that it would be possible to have a S8 wound not ID a T4 model without EW) with no rules support.

Well, not that either. You would need something in place to keep the lowly SM captain from suffering ID and currently the only rule would be EW. An indirect cause is still a cause. It's just by that measure it must be the eventuality.

I'm just making a devils advocate argument to demonstrate that it's not so clear as everyone thinks it is and to inform people of other possibilities. In actuality, I play it just like you. That being said, I feel my work is done here.

It is that clear, your trying to take extreme stretches of logic to be a Devils Advocate. The FAQs are quite clear.

Fragile wrote:
It is that clear, your trying to take extreme stretches of logic to be a Devils Advocate. The FAQs are quite clear.

It's not an 'extreme stretch'. That I take the time to explain does not mean the basic idea is warped or convoluted.

Q: Will a T4 model without EW suffer ID from a S8 attack?
A: Yes

Q: Will a T4 model with EW suffer ID from a S8 attack?
A: No

Q: Does the S8 attack come with ID naturally?
A: No

Q: Does ID trigger on the model or the wound.
A: Both

These are true in any case.

The difference I pointed out was with the reading of the rules. The primary difference being:

1. The model with EW is immune to the entirety of the effects of the ID rule. Which would prevent ID from triggering on it.
-or-
2. The model with EW is only immune to the end effects of the ID rule. Which allows ID to trigger but it stays on the board and it's wounds are unaffected.

Both are correct readings IMO. I use #2 like most everyone else in which it is undeniable that ID is caused even if it has no actual effect. Thus, no FNP roll.