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Leadership is truly your best friend... And the Tau chain of command tends to lack it once out of the fishbowl.

I play Eldar, and am spoilt for choices to hit the Riptide with.

The easiest has to be the Wraithknight, where you - point the wraithknight in the direction of the Riptide, and have it shoot and charge at it till the problem is gone.

 McNinja wrote:
You know, I don't know why everyone assumes that a riptide is supported, or that it needs some sort of support in order to function properly. Unsupported riptide are perfectly capable of killing your land raider or shooting stuff out of the sky.

1.5 S7 Hits even at ap2 will do very little to all but the most fragile of flyers with the Ion accelerator, and that assumes a velocity tracker.

Yes, you can hulk out and smash a tank that gets close but thats about it.

1 BS3 Pie Plate that fails to fire 1 time in 6 covers the lions share of it's effect without markerlights and you are paying a lot of points for that.
It's not until those shots are not scattering, ignoring cover and scything through your opponents favourite unit that the Riptide really comes into it's own.

While Zoans and Sternguard are great the OP is asking about Necrons, who do seem to hurt for multishot AP2. I still think Wraiths are the best option though it would be amusing as someone pointed out to use scarabs and entropic strike his 2+ save away from him.

 Mr.Omega wrote:


... trolling ...

Not sure why you would respond to a person by quoting them and then altering their quote... changing their words is a lot less direct than just having your own opinion (are you a democrat by chance? lol, sorry that was uncalled for)

Anyway, you seem to be playing the game in a sandbox mate. It's no fun playing alone. you need to play with some friends, not just you and your calculator named Dave.

Just for the sake of it I rolled this out a few times. A squad of 5 SM Scouts with Snipers (or a squad of unmodified Rangers) deals an average of 1 wound to the Riptide per turn. That's not going to kill it all by itself but since a riptide by itself costs significantly more than a squad of scouts, I was sort of figuring there would be some other things in my army shooting/swinging at it as well (novel concept right?)

This brings me to the poisoned weapons. I applaud your math and your knowing how many venoms it takes to achieve 91 shots. That's awesome! But Empty venoms are kind of waste y'know? A squad of Kabalite Trueborn with Carbines and a Splinter Cannon are putting out over 30 shots from a single unit. That's pretty killy for stuff that just wounds on 4+. That's also a lot more than 6 six wounds on average. (roll that out a couple of time and see if it matches your math hammer).

I'm also ignoring the fact that your average Dark Eldar army list is bristling with Dark Lances since they come standard on most of their skimmer transports. They can also be given to their basic troop choices who can fire them from within the transport... in a single round of fire for about 3 average units that are not "dedicated" to the task, you can cut a riptide to shreds. And still have enough DE left over to enjoy some proper carnage elsewhere on the table.




In fairness, that's the DE and they are one of the scariest armies in the game... still.

The Eldar are not far behind if played properly.

SM are not as easy to kill Riptides with but they can manage it just fine. Vanguard Vets do it just fine, or any squad with melta bombs really. The volume of attacks on a Vet squad is usually more than enough though. Grav weapons make it humorous now as well. Autocannon Dakka dreadnaughts are shockingly effective, as are Land Sppeder squadrons. Three Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and Frag Missiels will almost certainly kill it in a round or two.

But this is all just off the top of my head. Any competent player with more than 20 minutes to thumb through their codex can find a perfect viable way to kill the thing.

 En Excelsis wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:


... trolling ...

Not sure why you would respond to a person by quoting them and then altering their quote... changing their words is a lot less direct than just having your own opinion (are you a democrat by chance? lol, sorry that was uncalled for)

I'm not automatically obliged to comment on the entirety of your post. The bits I didn't quote I either didn't see as relevant as what I wanted to put across or couldn't be asked to answer for just how much of a waste of time contesting it would be.

In fact, its more of a democrat quality that you point this out in what I can only think of as some kind of attempt to manipulate my intentions or make a statement about my character, indeed I was not trying to cut away pieces of your argument and ignore them for advantage.

Anyway, you seem to be playing the game in a sandbox mate. It's no fun playing alone. you need to play with some friends, not just you and your calculator named Dave.

I do, and my friends are competitive, but I also regularly go to tournaments and game at open areas. And only a fool trusts in blind luck at the level I regularly play at without consideration for statistics.

Just for the sake of it I rolled this out a few times.

Anecdotal evidence is purely fallacious.

A squad of 5 SM Scouts with Snipers (or a squad of unmodified Rangers) deals an average of 1 wound to the Riptide per turn.

That's 60 points that competent players only take as objective holders. Its also matter-of-factually wrong, sorry to burst your bubble. I can't factor in the BS4 using my Mathhammer tools, but with 5 BS3 Sniper Shots you should score a rough average of 0.556~+ wounds a turn. It also doesn't factor in the possibility of the 2+ becoming the 5+ invulnerable, so even if the BS4 makes a .5 difference (and believe me that's unlikely) it will be mostly offset by that invulnerable.

That's not going to kill it all by itself but since a riptide by itself costs significantly more than a squad of scouts, I was sort of figuring there would be some other things in my army shooting/swinging at it as well (novel concept right?)

You can't afford to throw your entire army towards the killing of one unit, and while this is such a wide open blanket statement that I can't state its wrong, honestly your original point here was that Snipers were useful for this role and they're not efficient.

This brings me to the poisoned weapons. I applaud your math and your knowing how many venoms it takes to achieve 91 shots. That's awesome! But Empty venoms are kind of waste y'know? A squad of Kabalite Trueborn with Carbines and a Splinter Cannon are putting out over 30 shots from a single unit.

Not often seen in competitive lists, but going on the assumption they are there you still need to devote your entire elites section there to just kill one model. 390 points worth of models, in paper planes, that you absolutely need to use in a way that cripples your enemy as soon as possible in the early game. Killing a Riptide doesn't cripple Tau at all, its a support unit that has the advantage of being able to carry games by itself once in a while.

That's pretty killy for stuff that just wounds on 4+. That's also a lot more than 6 six wounds on average. (roll that out a couple of time and see if it matches your math hammer).

I'm also ignoring the fact that your average Dark Eldar army list is bristling with Dark Lances since they come standard on most of their skimmer transports.

Again, in an alpha strike army made out of paper dedicating everything to the killing of one model isn't acceptable.

They can also be given to their basic troop choices who can fire them from within the transport... in a single round of fire for about 3 average units that are not "dedicated" to the task, you can cut a riptide to shreds. And still have enough DE left over to enjoy some proper carnage elsewhere on the table.

3 non dedicated units is a gross exaggeration. That's 3 Splinterborn Venoms just to have an average chance of killing a Riptide. 3 Kabalite Raider boats certainly won't be able to do the same in the early game due to range and still probably not in the late game when in closing distance.

In fairness, that's the DE and they are one of the scariest armies in the game... still.

The Eldar are not far behind if played properly.

SM are not as easy to kill Riptides with but they can manage it just fine. Vanguard Vets do it just fine,

Except Vanguard Vets are pretty trashy at the competitive level.

or any squad with melta bombs really.

Of which there are exceptionally few can take multiple MB's

The volume of attacks on a Vet squad is usually more than enough though.

Relying on getting into CC, also here, which is not a viable strategy in this edition

Grav weapons make it humorous now as well.

Only if you run either Grav Bikers or Grav Centurions, but yes this can be considered true.

Autocannon Dakka dreadnaughts are shockingly effective,

This is pure falsification. Even if you take 6 BS5 TL Venerable Autocannon Naughts specifically tailoring with the MoTF, you're still only looking at 2.6 wounds a turn if they all fire at the same target. And that's 720 points, or more than a third of your standard tournament list.

as are Land Sppeder squadrons. Three Land Speeders with Assault Cannons and Frag Missiels will almost certainly kill it in a round or two.

You can't even take ML's with Assault Cannons, and you'd need about 7+ 90 point Assault Cannon Land Speeders to pull this stunt off. If he survives, or you're ineffective, you can say goodbye to all of them. You can't even deepstrike because many things in the Tau army (broadsides, Riptides for instance) has a 5 point interceptor upgrade and can be paired with a Buffmander which lets them ignore your jink and cover saves.

But this is all just off the top of my head. Any competent player with more than 20 minutes to thumb through their codex can find a perfect viable way to kill the thing.

I've spent months dwelling on different ways of killing Riptides creatively and I haven't found many solutions; even fewer prove compatible with a tournament list.

Is it just me or does that quote seem a lot longer than it originally was? ;>>

I'm just going to post a new reply because - without making it person or insulting - I find your method of quoting and using bold text as reply to be strenuous to read and respond to. Sorry.

Anyway:

I won't make a case for how inaccurate I find the general math-hammer practice to be. My anecdotal evidence (which is more or less every experience I've had playing he game for over a decade) has eroded away at my faith in figures as they appear on paper. What happens in the game differs enough for me that I don't think we can reach a common understanding. I'm happy to leave that point alone if you are.

However, I still think you are either twisting my words or misunderstanding them.

Anecdotal evidence is purely fallacious.

I do, and my friends are competitive, but I also regularly go to tournaments and game at open areas. And only a fool trusts in blind luck at the level I regularly play at without consideration for statistics.

That's 60 points that competent players only take as objective holders.

So my anecdotal evidence is inadmissible but yours... well.

In any case, you need to revisit the DE Codex. Not sure where you are getting your information from

you still need to devote your entire elites section there to just kill one model. 390 points worth of models, in paper planes

A single squad of well-equipped Trueborn in a Venom is 165 points. That's a single elites choice, not all three, that can 33 shots down at BS4 in turn 1.

If a player cared to, that would be a humorous but effective way to spend all three Elites from the FOC and to comical results. At 165 points per (including their open toped skimming transport) they are well bellow the cost of many other elite choices, and can be repurposed mid game.

In your example of using all 3, that's 99 shots in turn one at whatever I like... That's a VERY dead riptide - which is a significant loss for a Tau army in turn one. (again, this is likely not the only thing going down in a turn). Because the transport is what it is, it benefits from a cover/inv save and can be given night shields if needed for a whopping 5 additional points. your analogy of "paper plane" is a bit exaggerated.

I agree that such a display of firepower is largely wasted on a Riptide and would be better spent say ... killing all the pathfinders on the table, or perhaps a few broadsides. Hell, it doesn't matter. They represent a very real and very achievable hard-counter to a riptide by virtue of their poisoned weapons at volume.

And that's JUST one example.

I'm not sure what to make of your statement regarding Vanguard Veterans? Trashy? In what universe would a SM player not want to spend the meager 10 addition points to effectively buy another attack for all of his/her ASM. Throw a Chaplain in and you have an absurd amount of attacks in a pretty affordable squad that can be tweaked or repurposed to suit pretty much any situation.

You can't even take ML's with Assault Cannons

Quite right. I apologize, that was my error. The correct loadout would be a single squad of 3 Land Speeders all sporting a Heavy Bolter and a Typhoon Missile Launcher. At BS4 They are quite competent "bunker busters" and can deal with medium to hard targets very effectively. They are however, quite costly and should only be used in blitz plays that have additional support so that they don't go down immediately.

 McNinja wrote:

 RancidHate wrote:
It isn't the best way I'm sure... just the best way I've tried with what I have:

Dark Eldar: 1) Massed Splinter fire ONLY if you don't have softer targets, a 2+ is still a damn 2+. 2) Razorwing flocks, Beastpack can actually catch a Riptide hope for the rending hits and tank hits with Khymerae (aka "those 4++ dogs"). 3) If you just felt like playing it pricey, and the planets align to allow her in close combat, Lelith (in a Venom, with some throw-away Wrack bodyguards).

Eldar: 1) The longest range D-weapons you have. Wraithguard would be good EXCEPT a Riptide can easily jet-jump-whatever out of their way. 2) PsykerBykers (this is almost its' own topic). 3) DragonWagon; Wave Sepent drives up, drops off Fire Dragons. Sure you suicide potentially a Serpent and the Dragons but, when you absoultely, positively need a muthaf---a dead, accept no substitute.

Oh and if it gets the 3++? Just save your bullets (shuriken crystal shavings?) unless you have no other target.

Don't forget Eldar can also spam Bright lances via War Walkers.

Umm... well you see.. the problem with that, in my case, is I don't ...have War Walkers... or any similar sized proxies at that like 3 Sentinels or something... so I mean... um... well what I mean to say is...

HEY look over there! Bewbs!