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I'm playing a necron scythe / wraith ann barge kinda list.

What's my best approach against a space marine / tau list with one of these chuckling giants?

I guess they usually sit back table and are hard to get into cc? Obvs I'd love to overlord with mss or wraith it, but guess he'll make that tricky. I'm guessing it'll be his anti-flier thing though... He may bring one if those dreadnoughty things with the millions of shot Gatling guns anti flier thing. Sorry. I am bad with space marines.

Without adequate markerlight support the Riptide loses a lot of it's bite, aim for those models first if he has any followed by sources of prescience or rerolls for shooting and the Riptide will start to struggle. The added advantage is these units are usually much more fragile than the Riptide itself.

When people talk about the power of a Riptide it's always because it's BS5+ and ignoring cover, neither of which happen naturally.

Failing that, a unit of Wraiths will tie it up in melee handily, small ones will lose eventually but larger ones will rend him to death.

If you can get a unit of Wraiths into combat with it, go ahead, if not just ignore it and focus on killing markerlight units.

outside stripping its marker support so its nowhere near as dangerous, which is far easier to do, only way you are going to kill one is dedicate an obscene amount of fire to it forcing 2+ saves like no other, getting it in an assault somehow, or be Eldar and bring those S8 AP2 48" fethheads. No idea how irritated/shocked i was to lose a riptide in one go from those things.

Sniper fire is surprisingly effective (more so than I originally thought).

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/560494.page

Multi-page thread on this exact subject.

DA veterans in a drop pod will rape riptides, IMHO.

KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! -don't do this. You will die. lol-

If you were Chaos, I'd say dedicate a couple Havoc Heavy Weap Teams (I prefer Lascannons, but I'm sure someone has a better option) and just kill it till it's dead. With the AP2, S10, you really only gotta force it to fail a couple times and by then he'll probably be pooping his pants trying to get away.

As a Necron, I don't know what the equivalent is. See, the good thing about a Riptide is it's usually by itself and while it puts out impressive fire, a unit that can match that fire and force it to take wounds will shake it's resolve a lot faster than it might shake a squad with more wounds.

And does assault really work? What do you hit it with? Power fists? On a marine equivalent, that's only S8. >> Maybe I'm just being dumb, but I'd much rather put anti-tank fire on the bastard and be done with it as quickly as possible so my melee can hack through infantry like they want to.

Then again, I'm Chaos. +__+

Also a priest equipped with a PM can make some hilarious kills with his smash attacks. Bring along an InQ with rad grenades and enjoy the distraught look on the Tau player’s face, as you proceed to instant kill his much beloved riptide.

It isn't the best way I'm sure... just the best way I've tried with what I have:

Dark Eldar: 1) Massed Splinter fire ONLY if you don't have softer targets, a 2+ is still a damn 2+. 2) Razorwing flocks, Beastpack can actually catch a Riptide hope for the rending hits and tank hits with Khymerae (aka "those 4++ dogs"). 3) If you just felt like playing it pricey, and the planets align to allow her in close combat, Lelith (in a Venom, with some throw-away Wrack bodyguards).

Eldar: 1) The longest range D-weapons you have. Wraithguard would be good EXCEPT a Riptide can easily jet-jump-whatever out of their way. 2) PsykerBykers (this is almost its' own topic). 3) DragonWagon; Wave Sepent drives up, drops off Fire Dragons. Sure you suicide potentially a Serpent and the Dragons but, when you absoultely, positively need a muthaf---a dead, accept no substitute.

Oh and if it gets the 3++? Just save your bullets (shuriken crystal shavings?) unless you have no other target.

 RancidHate wrote:
It isn't the best way I'm sure... just the best way I've tried with what I have:

Dark Eldar: 1) Massed Splinter fire ONLY if you don't have softer targets, a 2+ is still a damn 2+. 2) Razorwing flocks, Beastpack can actually catch a Riptide hope for the rending hits and tank hits with Khymerae (aka "those 4++ dogs"). 3) If you just felt like playing it pricey, and the planets align to allow her in close combat, Lelith (in a Venom, with some throw-away Wrack bodyguards).

Eldar: 1) The longest range D-weapons you have. Wraithguard would be good EXCEPT a Riptide can easily jet-jump-whatever out of their way. 2) PsykerBykers (this is almost its' own topic). 3) DragonWagon; Wave Sepent drives up, drops off Fire Dragons. Sure you suicide potentially a Serpent and the Dragons but, when you absoultely, positively need a muthaf---a dead, accept no substitute.

Oh and if it gets the 3++? Just save your bullets (shuriken crystal shavings?) unless you have no other target.

Don't forget Eldar can also spam Bright lances via War Walkers.

Try this from the space marine perspective:

Blast the heck out of it with SM bikes with gravity guns and the MM attack bike. (Or give it the good try with plasma)

A couple SM skimmers with two MM mounted on them.

Devastators with the four man plasma cannon (Lascannon is expensive but an option).

Predator with all the lascannons.

Pod dropping Sternguard, use your imagination (I think the interceptor rule could make this tough).

If you can get your land raider crusader over with your TH/SS assault terminators; all the power to you. It may get a few wounds in with volume of shots before the passengers get a turn. This is the least "viable" option.

I like chasing them around with a Great Unclean One wielding a Balesword. It amuses me.

 reiner wrote:
I like chasing them around with a Great Unclean One wielding a Balesword. It amuses me.

Have you ever got there? That sounds like some Wile E.Coyote/Road Runner futility.

 Eldarain wrote:

 reiner wrote:
I like chasing them around with a Great Unclean One wielding a Balesword. It amuses me.

Have you ever got there? That sounds like some Wile E.Coyote/Road Runner futility.

Once, and it was delicious. I use the GUO for buffs and to chase stuff away most of the time.

Off my lawn, you damn kids!

Concentrated fire is always fun. If you play CSM and you get lucky with some GOMs you could wind up with somebody having ID melee attacks. That is sure to rain on somebodies parade. Risky though. Gotta get into range, and besides, hopefully by that time you've taken out some of it's support and even maybe wounded it. Either way when you see one on the table you have to plan accordingly, because it is extremely powerful and versatile. One way I've found to deal with Riptides is convenient distractions like snow shoveling or laundry. Maybe once people realize no one likes too much of a good thing they'll stop bringing them to every single game.

Now if on the other hand that sucker was a Walker type with a jump pack we'd have a whole other batch of options. But I guess that is the point. If we could deal with a Riptide in the same way as any other vehicle then GW wouldn't be selling Riptides and Farsight supplements now would they?

Back on topic. Shoot it with everything, melee it with tough stuff, or go the other way and negate it's threats by crippling it's support.

Luck, and optimisation of units specifically to get within effective range and kill it.

I can't really help with Crons but I'd say that with their 12'' movement and expendable cost you could try Scarab Swarms knocking its armour down with entropic touch where I'd usually shun trying to kill it in CC.

I'm a little shocked that this sort of question is still being asked.

Riptides are not a particularly potent unit. They are countered by exactly the same things have been countering Monstrous Creatures in other armies. Poison weapons or snipers - any weapons that wound on a fixed roll rather than a figure against the T value.
Additionally, because the Tau are so inept at CC, you can safely kill it by simply being close enough to initiate an assault. Any unit or model will do.

Please do not take this the wrong way as I don't mean this to be insulting, but the Tau are among the easiest opponents in the game to defeat. If you find yourself struggling against them you may want to take some time and revisit the core rules and your codex. Or encourage your opponent to do so, he may be misunderstanding some of the rules and cheating you (whether knowingly or not).

Playing Necrons may also be a part of your problem. They are fine faction, don't get me wrong, but they are ... what the best way to say this ... unwieldy. The bulk of their unit choices are very situation-specific and they often represent a hard-counter to one or more units from another faction, but they are not particularly effective against general units. They also have an abundance of special rules that can be fun, but being so narrow in purpose, they can be hard to play effectively without a great deal of experience (And even then, other races just offer more tactical depth).

There is a reason that GW includes Space Marines in nearly every edition's starter set. They are the simplest army to learn the game with. You can get a solid understanding the basic game mechanics and rules while you gain experience by fighting more experienced players who are branching into other races.

Again, very sorry if that sounds unduly harsh, but sometimes the best place to start is well, the beginning.

 En Excelsis wrote:
I'm a little shocked that this sort of question is still being asked.

Riptides are not a particularly potent unit. They are countered by exactly the same things have been countering Monstrous Creatures in other armies. Poison weapons or snipers - any weapons that wound on a fixed roll rather than a figure against the T value.
Additionally, because the Tau are so inept at CC, you can safely kill it by simply being close enough to initiate an assault. Any unit or model will do.

Please do not take this the wrong way as I don't mean this to be insulting, but the Tau are among the easiest opponents in the game to defeat. If you find yourself struggling against them you may want to take some time and revisit the core rules and your codex. Or encourage your opponent to do so, he may be misunderstanding some of the rules and cheating you (whether knowingly or not).

Playing Necrons may also be a part of your problem. They are fine faction, don't get me wrong, but they are ... what the best way to say this ... unwieldy. The bulk of their unit choices are very situation-specific and they often represent a hard-counter to one or more units from another faction, but they are not particularly effective against general units. They also have an abundance of special rules that can be fun, but being so narrow in purpose, they can be hard to play effectively without a great deal of experience (And even then, other races just offer more tactical depth).

There is a reason that GW includes Space Marines in nearly every edition's starter set. They are the simplest army to learn the game with. You can get a solid understanding the basic game mechanics and rules while you gain experience by fighting more experienced players who are branching into other races.

Again, very sorry if that sounds unduly harsh, but sometimes the best place to start is well, the beginning.

One thing I found during my first games against Tau was my tendency to not be as aggressive as I could be. The fear of getting shot up kinda held me back, even when I played a bike list. If you want to get into CC, you need to get there ASAP. Use your shooting to dent squads to lessen overwatch and get their units dead. Tau crumble in CC the vast majority of the time, barring extraordinary luck, so killing off units of Fire Warriors is not an issue. If you have a cc beats tick, landing blows that do significant damage shouldn't be be a problem. Also, keep in mind that you can always tie a riptide, or even a Wraithknight, up in cc with a weaker unit to give your main assault unit the to get there, or just keep it tied up all game.

 En Excelsis wrote:
I'm a little shocked that this sort of question is still being asked.

Riptides are not a particularly potent unit. They are countered by exactly the same things have been countering Monstrous Creatures in other armies. Poison weapons or snipers - any weapons that wound on a fixed roll rather than a figure against the T value.
Additionally, because the Tau are so inept at CC, you can safely kill it by simply being close enough to initiate an assault. Any unit or model will do.

Please do not take this the wrong way as I don't mean this to be insulting, but the Tau are among the easiest opponents in the game to defeat. If you find yourself struggling against them you may want to take some time and revisit the core rules and your codex. Or encourage your opponent to do so, he may be misunderstanding some of the rules and cheating you (whether knowingly or not).

Playing Necrons may also be a part of your problem. They are fine faction, don't get me wrong, but they are ... what the best way to say this ... unwieldy. The bulk of their unit choices are very situation-specific and they often represent a hard-counter to one or more units from another faction, but they are not particularly effective against general units. They also have an abundance of special rules that can be fun, but being so narrow in purpose, they can be hard to play effectively without a great deal of experience (And even then, other races just offer more tactical depth).

There is a reason that GW includes Space Marines in nearly every edition's starter set. They are the simplest army to learn the game with. You can get a solid understanding the basic game mechanics and rules while you gain experience by fighting more experienced players who are branching into other races.

Again, very sorry if that sounds unduly harsh, but sometimes the best place to start is well, the beginning.

I'd say marines are more unwieldy than necrons at this point. Marines are a *very* difficult army to use now. Smart Tau players will likely make you eat your words. They simply get to ignore a lot of the basic rules of the game through their special gear.

 En Excelsis wrote:
I'm a little shocked that this sort of question is still being asked.

Riptides are not a particularly potent unit. They are countered by exactly the same things have been countering Monstrous Creatures in other armies. Poison weapons or snipers - any weapons that wound on a fixed roll rather than a figure against the T value.

It takes about 50~ BS3 sniper shots on average to kill a Riptide. It takes about 91 BS4 poison shots to kill one, which is 7 DE Venoms. Both cases assume the Riptide doesn't have FNP.

So no, neither of those are a decent option, not even close. Any common S8 AP3 like ML's, Battle Cannons, etc are practically useless against them, even though they work fine against your other average MC's.

Additionally, because the Tau are so inept at CC, you can safely kill it by simply being close enough to initiate an assault. Any unit or model will do.

It can move 6'' a turn, jump 2D6, and can safely fire from 72'' away, ignoring night fighting. . Good luck with that.

Ways I have been able to down/beat up riptides using Necrons (kinda decending order):

-Wraiths with D Lord (get this unit into him and the riptide is dead)
-or troops unit with Lord or overlord +warscythe/MSS (the lord can force through 2-3 wounds a turn with MSS going off)
-decent size unit of wraiths (should carve him down to size over a few combats)

-death and despair squad(s) (can peal wounds off pretty fast, deathmarks seem to be an ideal way of killing monsters, but will be sitting ducks next turn

-CCB (although not as common, can get free str 7 ap1 hits on them, then get impact hits, more str 7 ap1 hits, and probably MSS hits)

-heralds of destruction (str 8 ap2 shot is ideal, but these guys aren't taken very much since 5th Ed, although a full unit of 5 in a ghost ark will definately make the riptide think twice)

-mass tesla destructor shooting (which seems the OP has, but its really only good for a wound or two)
-the backup's backup: tesla immortals

-Stalker is not a bad idea. I don't run one, but getting a wound in, and then twin-linking whatever other ap2 shots (deathmarks, heralds of destruction, heavy destroyers) could work pretty well

Some other honorable mentions, but they have some troubles:
-mass scarabs/Spyders. A big unit of scarabs could take on a riptide, but I find they evaporate pretty quickly against Tau, and Spyders are super slow
-warscythe lychguard. A good Tau commander won't let them live on the turn they jump out of a nightscythe, or at least turbo the riptide away
-THE DEATH RAY......if you want to take off a wound. If only we had some way to drop its T by 1......
-heavy destroyers, but again they will probably die pretty fast in a shootout against Tau, and the riptide is one of the better ways to kill them.....


So ya, Necrons have some tools to kill a riptide, but with the lack of access to ap 2 shots makes it harder. It will tend to take a Hodge-podge of the above to actually down one quickly (unless you take the DLord+wraiths).

Best way to kill a riptide? Get its wounds down to zero.


Otherwise either have something strong enough to kill it or wack the support units until they die, at least that will lower its damage output

You know, I don't know why everyone assumes that a riptide is supported, or that it needs some sort of support in order to function properly. Unsupported riptide are perfectly capable of killing your land raider or shooting stuff out of the sky.

You know what is ridiculously amusing?

Puppet Master...

Lots and lots of Puppet Master...

Where is your fish-god now Tau?!

welshhoppo wrote:
Best way to kill a riptide? Get its wounds down to zero.


Otherwise either have something strong enough to kill it or wack the support units until they die, at least that will lower its damage output

Disagree.

Simply get it into CC and stop it shooting. Do so with a cheaper unit, you've effectively done the same thing as killing it.

GoliothOnline wrote:
You know what is ridiculously amusing?

Puppet Master...

Lots and lots of Puppet Master...

Where is your fish-god now Tau?!

Had much luck? I always go for Biomancy, but have wanted to try for puppet master as well. Worth not getting Iron Arm?

Mr.Omega wrote:

 En Excelsis wrote:
I'm a little shocked that this sort of question is still being asked.

Riptides are not a particularly potent unit. They are countered by exactly the same things have been countering Monstrous Creatures in other armies. Poison weapons or snipers - any weapons that wound on a fixed roll rather than a figure against the T value.

It takes about 50~ BS3 sniper shots on average to kill a Riptide. It takes about 91 BS4 poison shots to kill one, which is 7 DE Venoms. Both cases assume the Riptide doesn't have FNP.

So no, neither of those are a decent option, not even close. Any common S8 AP3 like ML's, Battle Cannons, etc are practically useless against them, even though they work fine against your other average MC's.

Additionally, because the Tau are so inept at CC, you can safely kill it by simply being close enough to initiate an assault. Any unit or model will do.

It can move 6'' a turn, jump 2D6, and can safely fire from 72'' away, ignoring night fighting. . Good luck with that.

Yeah. But Riptides "aren't particularly effective." Tell that one again, Chuck! That was a riot! rofl

welshhoppo wrote:Best way to kill a riptide? Get its wounds down to zero.


Otherwise either have something strong enough to kill it or wack the support units until they die, at least that will lower its damage output

I heard you can get those wounds down to 0 by shooting it with guns or hitting it with stuff. And then when it's dead, it's damage output will be lower. Is that true?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Razerous wrote:

welshhoppo wrote:
Best way to kill a riptide? Get its wounds down to zero.


Otherwise either have something strong enough to kill it or wack the support units until they die, at least that will lower its damage output

Disagree.

Simply get it into CC and stop it shooting. Do so with a cheaper unit, you've effectively done the same thing as killing it.

Thiiiiis doesn't quiet work when we're talking about Cultists. All he's gotta do is kill something and he'll likely win combat, and then send your squishies running in the breeze, to which let's hope he doesn't Sweeping Advance and eat your lunch. 100+ pts down the crapper. @.@ You need to be at least somewhat combat effective to kill him in CC, otherwise you're suicide-ing your guys.

SBG wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
You know what is ridiculously amusing?

Puppet Master...

Lots and lots of Puppet Master...

Where is your fish-god now Tau?!

Had much luck? I always go for Biomancy, but have wanted to try for puppet master as well. Worth not getting Iron Arm?

I've had days where i've killed 1 out of 2 of my friends Riptides with his other one, other days I simply take them and large blast his own troops XD

I second the puppet master, I use 6 zoans with telepathy and make sure to take the primaris shriek and pod them, normally I will lose a couple but then he isn't shooting my trygons or mawloc, shriek from 2/3 zoans on riptides will Kill them very quickly.

I also had an odd thing happen the other day, my opponent tooko ovessa and for some reason I took deathleaper that game, knocked it down to ld6, my flyrant then swooped in (it had intimidating presence) shot at the unit with brainleach worms, did a wound to his commander with the chip and watched them run off the board on ld 5, very odd chain of circumstances but.seething to consider if you encounter something similar.