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Ok, answering questions, I can show that fact I don't play it for the cheese I chose my army (and it's weapons) on what looked coolest, nothing more

When I started I pick CSM but Tau was my second choice.

They are teaming up, fluff wise, because in my army the chaos marines, miss the old imperial life, and try to leave all the chaos on the battlefield, and the tau are separatists with only a small force, are targeted by the rest of the tau, and needed the Chaos Marines help to survive. Bro-fist

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:

Yes... fluff... why would Chaos join Tau? Less history, CSM are just misunderstood?

I'm currently vaguely running with the idea that they are Tau mercenaries (the Riptide being a recent top secret device is a problem, though). My CSMs are a cell of Alpha Legionnaires on loan to a rogue (ex)Inquisitor named Lyxivia (who is actually a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch). She's extraordinarily charismatic and manipulative, she could make it happen. Although I do need to determine the specifics of these Tau mercenaries and how they came to this point, not to mention how they got their hands on a Riptide.

Not so difficult me-thinks. Just think of it like this, the Tau are a race that don't know the evils of Chaos... but the Farsight Enclaves are. Look no further then the Farsight Enclaves fluff where they fight against chaos. Who knows? Maybe your Alpha Legion sense a weakness in the resolve of the Tau they've found and exploit it to their own use. You don't think all falls from grace are without a push do you?

I know there are some that would cry a Tau would never fall to Chaos. I'm not saying they fell, but there is a reasonable sense that they may be 'coerced' into fighting with Chaos. Why destroy the Tau when you can use them? Chaos is bad... but they're not all crazed killers like those that serve Khorne. This sounds right up Tzeench's alley.

I'm starting a thread in purposed rules for the whole riptide/dreadknight monstrous creature problem. making a new unit classification.

thepowerfulwill wrote:
I play Chaos and and attempting to build tau allies, I want the heldrake and the riptide, but I'm not a power gamer, I just like the units, they are just cool, but I'm afraid people will hate me for using them. sometimes I feel that while certain units are far better, it doesn't grant you an instant win, and can easily be killed with the right weapons. what you people think about all the "unit hate" on certain models?

It's part of the game - play it and have fun.

 Matt1785 wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:

Yes... fluff... why would Chaos join Tau? Less history, CSM are just misunderstood?

I'm currently vaguely running with the idea that they are Tau mercenaries (the Riptide being a recent top secret device is a problem, though). My CSMs are a cell of Alpha Legionnaires on loan to a rogue (ex)Inquisitor named Lyxivia (who is actually a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch). She's extraordinarily charismatic and manipulative, she could make it happen. Although I do need to determine the specifics of these Tau mercenaries and how they came to this point, not to mention how they got their hands on a Riptide.

Not so difficult me-thinks. Just think of it like this, the Tau are a race that don't know the evils of Chaos... but the Farsight Enclaves are. Look no further then the Farsight Enclaves fluff where they fight against chaos. Who knows? Maybe your Alpha Legion sense a weakness in the resolve of the Tau they've found and exploit it to their own use. You don't think all falls from grace are without a push do you?

I know there are some that would cry a Tau would never fall to Chaos. I'm not saying they fell, but there is a reasonable sense that they may be 'coerced' into fighting with Chaos. Why destroy the Tau when you can use them? Chaos is bad... but they're not all crazed killers like those that serve Khorne. This sounds right up Tzeench's alley.

That's the idea. Although "falling" isn't on the table (is that a pun?), even for the Marines. The Alpha Legion, and all that. Lyxivia isn't a Chaos worshiper, but she, more than anything, loves power. She didn't have the subtle progression through 'radical' into 'more radical' until she went rogue - she's been using Chaos to further her own grand ambition ever since she could get away with it. I'm still not clear on the exact details of how she attained Daemonhood, but Tzeentch certainly appreciated her thirst for power and talent for weaving intricate plots to get her own way, and Daemonhood was among her ultimate goals (mostly for immortality). I have too many stories to devote time into this, so it's more a framework that I occasionally add to in my musings.

Whatever the case, the Alpha Legion cell (who I still need to name, although being the Alpha Legion their name may as well be "a cell" or "some Space Marines") deem the Tau to be acceptable allies to further Lyxivia's mysterious cause (which they seem to share), and the mercs/renegades/whatever seem to agree. Also, Khorne embodies honour and martial prowess too, remember. Not all who serve Khorne are crazed killers.

I really am excited to put the Riptide together (I haven't really had time). It is a lovely model, and having ball joints just makes me happy. I would have bought a Riptide for display purposes even if I had no interest in fielding it, but why wouldn't I?

EDIT: The issue is managing to create a "they left because Ethereals suck" that isn't just "My OC, Commander Longsight, original character don't steal".

EDIT2: I just realised that "Farsight" is basically the same as "Farseer". Interesting...

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Big Mek, Shokk Attack Gun, Double 6s. Is it reliable? No. But it is cheaper.

60" vs. 72".

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Big Mek, Shokk Attack Gun, Double 6s. Is it reliable? No. But it is cheaper.

60" vs. 72".

Out of curiosity, how often would this be an issue on a 6x4 table? I've never played on one, but I imagine that 60" would cover most of the board, terrain notwithstanding, if deployed roughly in the center of your table edge.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Big Mek, Shokk Attack Gun, Double 6s. Is it reliable? No. But it is cheaper.

60" vs. 72".

Your point? How many people will prioritize that Big Mekk over everything else? In terms of an Ork army he may have the highest damage potential (removes from play trumps pretty much anything shy of a D-Weapon) but is considered so weak overall that he gets ignored as long as he's not sitting in a unit like Lootas.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Your point?

What was yours? "Hurr durr take SAGs to beat Riptides"? That's helpful or relevant, how, exactly?

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Your point?

What was yours? "Hurr durr take SAGs to beat Riptides"? That's helpful or relevant, how, exactly?

It's relevant to the post I was replying to where it was said there was pretty much only one kind of model who could kill a Riptide and cost less than one. I never said it was the best thing ever, just that it was another model who could potentially kill a Riptide. I also pointed out the Vindicare as a potential choice to help do it because it can inflict multiple wounds, not to mention remove Invulnerable saves depending on which ammo you use.

Honestly I'd just shoot the thing with Lootas if I was running Orks and really wanted to try and make it gone, but a SAG isn't a bad option to try if you like running them.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Your point?

What was yours? "Hurr durr take SAGs to beat Riptides"? That's helpful or relevant, how, exactly?

Dude, dude, woah. Chill out man. You are obviously upset, so take a while to calm down. There is no need to get all aggressive at a friendly Dakkanaut for posting something that was a valid point to a prior post.

It is okay if your point does not seem as valid to some people as another, it is a part of life and their opinion. Just don't flip baskets about it.


Keep Calm and Don't Hate on Dakka

Cheers,
DaK

something about "The Greater Good" allying with the forces of supreme evil in the universe seems a little off to me, but hey, like everyone said they're your toys. Play with them however you like. Just don't be offended if your pals aren't too keen to play against your most powerful list every single game.

Eh, to be honest I just made up that explanation of the top of my head... I will think of something better in the future, and my army, as it stands now is minimal hq and troops choices, just troops. although my chaos guys are more renegade than demonic...

darkcloak wrote:
something about "The Greater Good" allying with the forces of supreme evil in the universe seems a little off to me, but hey, like everyone said they're your toys. Play with them however you like. Just don't be offended if your pals aren't too keen to play against your most powerful list every single game.

Well it might not help... but at a GW when I was new, we had an Eldar, DA, Tau, and myself (CSM). We had to play a 2v2 and so they made up some fluff for an ally of Eldar and DA versus Tau and CSM. The explanation was the CSM were hired not knowing the CSM's actual intentions.

Mutual deceit could easily work.
tau use the chaos as meat shields, chaos use tau for valuable resources. Even better because my marines are raiders/scavengers who take whatever gear they can get and just pretend to be working for the greater good. (I have a lot of converted normal marine units and a couple "beakies") Thanks for the idea!

darkcloak wrote:something about "The Greater Good" allying with the forces of supreme evil in the universe seems a little off to me,

thepowerfulwill wrote:although my chaos guys are more renegade than demonic...

Chaos is only "supreme evil" depending on your perspective. Chaos and Loyalist Marines have just as much capacity for evil as each other. Their shared "evil" is probably most often selfishness and arrogance. That, and Chaos Marines have an actual motivation to sacrifice people, while Loyalist Marines tend to just not care about them. There's also that all kinds of Marine vary; loyalists range from the Salamanders (nice guys) to the Flesh Tearers (not nice guys), Marines Malevolent, etc. I'm not saying that Chaos Marines are friendly or nice guys, but it is not a requirement for them to be 'objectively' evil. Daemons, on the other hand, tend to be a bit more so. The point is that there is plenty of variation. If your CSM warband were formed of murdering, torturing, enslaving psychopaths, I can see the Tau having problems with it.

Then again, not all Tau are "good" or believe in the "Greater Good". They're subject to the same range of personalities and moralities as anyone else, so a renegade Tau group that is free to act on its own could be good, evil, or neither. They could even worship Chaos if they wanted (not being subject to spiritual corruption does not mean they are unable to have faith, as real-world religions prove). They could be sadistic psychopaths who revel in the actions of a bloodthirsty Khorne warband, even.

^ Exalted!