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They wear PA because if your tank gets wrecked and Chronus leaps out for a bit of fisticuffs, he has his armor on.

Whether that makes any sense is another matter entirely of course, because tanks are pretty tight inside.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Tower75 wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
IIRC they wear their armor, but not backpacks.

That would make sense, but isn't it the backpack that holds the power plant that powers the armour?

If you look at the accessory sure that comes with SM tanks, the marine in the turret lacks a backpack, but has a cable plugged into the tank. I would assume that all stations inside the tanks have similar plugs to let the marines' armor run off the tanks power plant. If they need to bail, they just need to grab their packs when they pick up their bolters.

If that's the case, it'd be so annoying if you left the headlights on overnight and came back to find the battery completely flat...

Lol ^^

Also, we already know GW stuff isn't to scale especially their tanks - the SM pilot model can't get his torso through the hatch...
Also various pieces of fluff and novels have showed that SM tanks are crewed by a full Astartes crew and we can see from IA 2 (I think) how the full squad plus pilot fit into a Rhino (in full power armour).
So seeing as that many guys fit into a Rhino I would imagine it would actually be pretty spacious inside a Pred w only the commander copilot and gunner in there

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
GW has actually published a very detailed breakdown of the Ultramarines Chapter at 999.M41.

Chapter Command: 29 incl. Honour Guard
Armoury: 28 Techmarines
Apothecarion: 13 Apothecaries
Librarius: 25 Librarians, 3 Acolytes
Reclusiam: 11 Chaplains
Battle Companies: 502
Reserves: 404
Scouts: 101? (estimate, exact number of Scouts not provided)
----
Total: ca. 1113 Astartes, including the Supernumaries that are not counted against the 1k warrior limit (but not counting Dreadnoughts and Chapter Serfs)

They are currently also selling the entire Chapter on their website. Feel free to count:

Spoiler:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod2160196a

.

Wait, if that's the whole Ultramarines Chapter, where are my 28 Techmarines, 25 librarians plus acolytes, and all of my vehicles (with crew, as the 3rd Ed Space Marine codex says)?

Wait, you mean what Games Workshop is selling isn't the entire Ultramarines Chapter? Even by your own numbers? It's just a gimmick product on a website? Those lying rat bastards.

The vehicles do come with the 1000+ marines, they just are not shown in that Image.

although they only give you 5 Librarians(including Tiggy)

It is also missing a few Techmarines.

But it really is a full Chapter otherwise.

Except it's far less vehicles than the list she provided, which is my point. And no Thunderhawks.

It's just a gimmick product. Like I said.

At no point should anyone ever be confused that anything having to do with the game rules or models is supposed to be an accurate depiction of the universe. They're just a product that is being sold, with the sole interest being profits.

Gimmick or no, it apparently represents or comes close to what GW is currently thinking a Marine Chapter looks like. And you can totally extrapolate an accurate depiction of the universe from the rules ... if you want.

The fact that this would make Space Marines a bit less awesome than the novels and legends say is probably what keeps a lot of people from seeing this option - but it does exist. That's just the nature of how this franchise has been set up by its creators.

Question: Do you also believe that Landspeeders are not piloted by Assault Marines? I mean, it's pretty much the same thing right there.

Foir a human, probably less cramped than a modern AFV/tank (which aren't designed for overly large people, but bodybuilders would find an SM vehicle roomy.
As for the armour, yes they do. Their armour links them through to the tank (just like marines can 'charge' their armour or whatever, from the rhino bench seats - those doowhackies line up with the rear torso projections that the packs slot into.). Also, should they need to disembark (in earlier editions, crew could disembark a dead vehicle).

 Tower75 wrote:
Hi, all.
Or, is this like, 'how can ten Astartes fit inside a Rhino APC?'

Melta + ashtray.

Now I have a mental image of marines being crammed into a rhino like tetrominoes. Also, I totally put shoulder pads on my chaos rhino's gunner without thinking about that, lol.

Well, I can illustrate a Whirlwind and a Baal Predator interior...

Whirlwind:


Baal Predator:

 Briancj wrote:
Well, I can illustrate a Whirlwind and a Baal Predator interior...

Whirlwind:


Baal Predator:

Now that is how to do your interiors. Nice!

I'm sorry I may be wrong but I thought the tanks were crewed by serfs and the tank commander was a marine? Must depend on the chapter.

 The Deathless Host wrote:
I'm sorry I may be wrong but I thought the tanks were crewed by serfs and the tank commander was a marine? Must depend on the chapter.

That would make too much sense.

Da krimson barun wrote:

 The Deathless Host wrote:
I'm sorry I may be wrong but I thought the tanks were crewed by serfs and the tank commander was a marine? Must depend on the chapter.

That would make too much sense.

Yeah... Way too practical for GW

Ever since I started playing (in the dark days, before the 90's) SM tanks were crewed by actual space marines.

Brother Payne wrote:Yeah... Way too practical for GWthe Imperium

Fixed that for you.

That being said, it may seem more sensible if you consider that the IoM is intentionally limiting the Marines' combat capabilities with the Codex Astartes ever since the Heresy. It'd be a pretty big loophole if they were to say "okay you only get 1k troops, but go ahead and just build as many tanks and fliers as you want"


Briancj: Very cool photos!

Lol 1 tank per marine!

 Lynata wrote:
That being said, it may seem more sensible if you consider that the IoM is intentionally limiting the Marines' combat capabilities with the Codex Astartes ever since the Heresy. It'd be a pretty big loophole if they were to say "okay you only get 1k troops, but go ahead and just build as many tanks and fliers as you want"

Except that the tank crews aren't a part of the 1000 marines so they basically can do that...

There is actually a picture of the inside of a Predator in one Index Astartes (I dont remember which). But I am not sure if they would wear PA inside, particularly the crew, as the seat of the pilot actually has a neuronal plug which conects to the back.

Brother Payne wrote:Except that the tank crews aren't a part of the 1000 marines so they basically can do that...

Except that we have some Codex and White Dwarf fluff saying they are. We also have a full list of the Ultramarines Chapter in the 5E Codex with no extra driver Marines accounted for anywhere.

As has been said earlier, you can always just go with your preferred interpretation, but that doesn't make the other printed stuff go away, or make other people's preferred interpretation any less valid.

Every one know that Space Marine Rhino's are built on the Forgeworld Tardis!

Lynata wrote:The fact that this would make Space Marines a bit less awesome than the novels and legends say is probably what keeps a lot of people from seeing this option - but it does exist.

You like to spew this garbage, but it's never been about it making the Space Marines less awesome.

People poke fun of it and criticize it because it doesn't make any sense. What's the difference if the Space Marines have 1,000 total Marines (which we know they don't, since we've accepted the minimum strength is well over 1100), or if the 1,000 is the line strength of the Battle Companies? It doesn't make any freaking difference to what's in the novels and legends. The fluff has them doing what they do regardless. That's such a non-point it's ridiculous.

In fact, it's such an ridiculous non-point, that technically if they're fighting with one arm tied behind their back, as you want to suggest, and still turning the tide in major campaigns, it makes them even more awesome. This seems to be a trend for you, being that you love being contrarian just for the sake of, but your idea is half thought out, at best. Those of us who point to the Chapter needing to be larger than just the 1,000 are saying that in order to accomplish their mission, Chapters need more Marines. Your argument is "Nah, they get all that stuff done with half as many dudes". You realize that right? The only one arguing that the Marines should be more awesome... is you.

The rest of us just look at the way the fluff has evolved to encapsulate an ever-growing number of vehicles, aircraft, etc, and said "Ya know, it makes more sense if 1,000 is a limit on the number of infantry a Chapter is allowed to employ, rather than a hard cap on the total number of Marines." And see, that's where you've been coming up short. You like to argue so much that it gets in the way of using common sense.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Your argument is "Nah, they get all that stuff done with half as many dudes". You realize that right? The only one arguing that the Marines should be more awesome... is you.

It appears that in your usual attempt to come across as the omniscient yet impudent well of knowledge, hijacking the rest of dakka as if you'd truly be capable of speaking for everyone else, you seem to have mixed up two arguments I made, or perhaps not even realised that they were two.

Yes, in fact I do realise that this is exactly what the Space Marines are about - I mean, that's kind of what I'm saying all the time.
The nature of a Chapter's deployment does in no way affect the game rules, however, so I and other fans can easily continue to extrapolate based on that. So, the suggestion that some of the stories and myths we read about in novels and Codex fluff are exaggerated is in no way contradictory to the idea that the Marines, by nature of their current organisational structure, are more awesome than they would be if they had two or three times the manpower whilst maintaining the same efficiency. Or, in other words, to prevent further misunderstanding: they're more awesome than that, but they're not that awesome.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:You like to argue so much that it gets in the way of using common sense.

Not really. I just don't see the Imperium as being all that big on common sense. I thought I had already clarified this.

One of these days, when game, set, match has so obviously occurred, you'll have the dignity to wander off and at least pretend you forgot about the thread or something.

But I am impressed with your ability to try to recover from saying that the argument that there aren't enough Space Marines means that Space Marines would be less awesome, even though it actually means they would be more awesome, but that was [i]totally[i/] what you were saying whole time. There's no two arguments here. You said that people argue that the 1,000 Marine limit is silly because that makes the Marines less awesome. There's no second point to be made anywhere in that statement, or that post, for that matter. I don't have to speak for you or anyone else. You spoke for yourself, and you were hilariously wrong.

You can call me impudent, but you were the one tossing out veiled insults suggesting the argument was based on fanboism and not simply just on a legitimate question of math and logistics. All I did was pull your card. I know it stings, but hey, you've bounced back from worse. I have faith you can shrug this one off too.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
GW has actually published a very detailed breakdown of the Ultramarines Chapter at 999.M41.

Chapter Command: 29 incl. Honour Guard
Armoury: 28 Techmarines
Apothecarion: 13 Apothecaries
Librarius: 25 Librarians, 3 Acolytes
Reclusiam: 11 Chaplains
Battle Companies: 502
Reserves: 404
Scouts: 101? (estimate, exact number of Scouts not provided)
----
Total: ca. 1113 Astartes, including the Supernumaries that are not counted against the 1k warrior limit (but not counting Dreadnoughts and Chapter Serfs)

They are currently also selling the entire Chapter on their website. Feel free to count:

Spoiler:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod2160196a

.

Wait, if that's the whole Ultramarines Chapter, where are my 28 Techmarines, 25 librarians plus acolytes, and all of my vehicles (with crew, as the 3rd Ed Space Marine codex says)?

Wait, you mean what Games Workshop is selling isn't the entire Ultramarines Chapter? Even by your own numbers? It's just a gimmick product on a website? Those lying rat bastards.

The vehicles do come with the 1000+ marines, they just are not shown in that Image.

although they only give you 5 Librarians(including Tiggy)

It is also missing a few Techmarines.

But it really is a full Chapter otherwise.

Rememberits the full chapter as deployed at the battle for Armeggedon so there will be a few techmarines/trainers/ other assorted marines who either got stuck on macragge training recruits/ manning the fortress or stayed with the fleet manning the armoury.

I think it is pretty small and even a leman Russ tank is larger

Welp, clearly this thread has devolved into yet another fight between people. So, thusly, I offer to end it:

"Is is cramped in a Predator?"

Yes.

Yes it is.

Thread finished!

I can answer the OP's query with a syllogism.

A predator is a tank.

It is cramped in tanks.

Ergo, it is cramped in a predator.