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Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

 Ouze wrote:
You can't win the Lotto, Motyak - that's how I'm planning to retire! I've spent a lifetime not saying anything for my old age because I'm that confident



Ouze ouze ouze, there's nothing to worry about. Different countries, different lottos. We'll both be winners!

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

 motyak wrote:
Why would they (the Saudi's) even need to show up if it is a U.S. court? It was individuals/families/etc that would have financed them, not 'Saudi Arabia' as a whole, right?
That's a false distinction. The House of Saud "is" Saudi Arabia as a whole. Saudi Arabia is a Kingdom and the "family" that is giving money to Bin Ladin/Taliban/Others also happens to be the same family that rules the country.

Also, to the apologists who claim "we" trained Bin Ladin or the Taliban, that is complete fiction. Please stop believing it and spreading it around. What happened in Afghanistan is a matter of record and there is no conspiracy to accompany it. The saddest part is that it is all so easily searchable on the internet. In a nutshell, the CIA (under direction of the Reagan administration) trained the mujahideen in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation and provided money and arms (such as Stinger anti-air missiles). Once the Soviets gave up, the CIA pulled out and the we (the USA) ended our involvement. Defeating the Soviets was important to us, Afghanistan as a country wasn't. The mujahideen fractured and disbanded as a group and warlords began to fight each other for control. After a few years, a radical Islamist group calling themselves the Taliban were formed and received assistance from Pakistan. They took over, forced their governance on the warlords, and the power vacuum was finally filled. Bin Ladin and his Al Qaeda followers took up residence some time later.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/21 11:13:34


 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

 Breotan wrote:
 motyak wrote:
Why would they (the Saudi's) even need to show up if it is a U.S. court? It was individuals/families/etc that would have financed them, not 'Saudi Arabia' as a whole, right?
That's a false distinction. The House of Saud "is" Saudi Arabia as a whole. Saudi Arabia is a Kingdom and the "family" that is giving money to Bin Ladin/Taliban/Others also happens to be the same family that rules the country.



I wasn't aware that it was the royal family officially giving money to them. I still think they'd be better off just not showing up at any court hearing which comes from this, they won't suffer for it.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Saudi Arabia and the House of Saud are not a monolith, however. It's entirely possible that some members of the family sympathise with Al Qaeda while the ruling members do not.

There are rich Sauds who aren't part of the ruling family, too. The Bin Laden family itself is rich, though there isn't any evidence they gave money to Al Quaeda AFAIK.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

 motyak wrote:
 Breotan wrote:
 motyak wrote:
Why would they (the Saudi's) even need to show up if it is a U.S. court? It was individuals/families/etc that would have financed them, not 'Saudi Arabia' as a whole, right?
That's a false distinction. The House of Saud "is" Saudi Arabia as a whole. Saudi Arabia is a Kingdom and the "family" that is giving money to Bin Ladin/Taliban/Others also happens to be the same family that rules the country.

I wasn't aware that it was the royal family officially giving money to them. I still think they'd be better off just not showing up at any court hearing which comes from this, they won't suffer for it.
Nothing "official" about it. Still happening though. And they most likely won't show up to any court hearings.


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Breotan wrote:
Also, to the apologists* who claim "we" trained Bin Ladin or the Taliban, that is complete fiction. Please stop believing it and spreading it around. What happened in Afghanistan is a matter of record and there is no conspiracy to accompany it. The saddest part is that it is all so easily searchable on the internet. In a nutshell, the CIA (under direction of the Reagan administration) trained the mujahideen in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation and provided money and arms (such as Stinger anti-air missiles). Once the Soviets gave up, the CIA pulled out and the we (the USA) ended our involvement**. Defeating the Soviets was important to us, Afghanistan as a country wasn't. The mujahideen fractured and disbanded as a group*** and warlords began to fight each other for control. After a few years, a radical Islamist group calling themselves the Taliban were formed*** and received assistance from Pakistan****. They took over, forced their governance on the warlords, and the power vacuum was finally filled. Bin Ladin and his Al Qaeda followers took up residence some time later*****.


It is easily searchable, so you must know that you are omitting some elements from your abstract.

* Who apologized, exactly? And who was apologized to?

** The Soviets were gone in 1989, but we were still sending the Mujahideen money as late as 1992.

*** Where do you think these people went? We funded the training of nearly hundred thousand fighters. These people didn't just vanish a few years later.

**** They were receiving training from Pakistan, but it didn't start when you claim it did (it started in 1978) and you're omitting that we were financing the training, along with other nations.

***** Osama Bin Laden was fighting the Soviets as early as 1979.

Now to be clear - I did not say either then or now that we supported Bin Laden; but we most certainly financed and armed the groundwork he later inherited. I don't think that's really a matter of opinion.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/21 13:05:20


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Thats fantastic!

But will the families of the IRA's victims now be able to sue the USA for financing Irish terrorism?

If not, then this decision smacks of hypocrisy.

That depends whether the State funded the individuals, to what extent it enabled them/what their relationship was, and whether the terrorists were funded by private individuals.

Lets not forget the UK governments long history of collusion with Loyalist terrorists. As someone else said, people in glass houses.


On topic, this is certainly an interesting development. With the rumour that Saudi is aligning itself with Russia after they helped broker Assad's surrender of chemical weapons it might be interesting to see how this progresses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 motyak wrote:
 Breotan wrote:
 motyak wrote:
Why would they (the Saudi's) even need to show up if it is a U.S. court? It was individuals/families/etc that would have financed them, not 'Saudi Arabia' as a whole, right?
That's a false distinction. The House of Saud "is" Saudi Arabia as a whole. Saudi Arabia is a Kingdom and the "family" that is giving money to Bin Ladin/Taliban/Others also happens to be the same family that rules the country.

I wasn't aware that it was the royal family officially giving money to them. I still think they'd be better off just not showing up at any court hearing which comes from this, they won't suffer for it.


And, lest we forget, Bin Laden was not exactly in favour in Saudi Arabia and his offers of assistance with the defense of The Kingdom during the Gulf War were declined in favour of the Allies. A fact that caused some bad blood also.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/21 14:16:42


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Lets not forget the UK governments long history of collusion with Loyalist terrorists. As someone else said, people in glass houses.


Glass houses? Nonsense. If past UK Governments can be proven to have cooperated with and helped fund loyalist terror groups, then I think the UK should be sued too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/21 15:01:48


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




A pretty good article of a newsman's recollections during the Soviet occupation of Afghanastan:


http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=background.view&backgroundid=490

Some more about wherethe terrorists got funded:

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/sleeping-with-the-devil-how-u-s-and-saudi-backing-of-al-qaeda-led-to-911.html

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/21 15:10:55


 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 djones520 wrote:

The Taliban didn't even exist as an entity until 1994. So even that argument is really a non-starter.


Several sources claim that it did and, as such, it is not.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Taliba n timeline according to: Aljazeera:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2009/03/2009389217640837.html


This article seems to indicate the Taliban's existence prior to the 90's:


http://www-pub.naz.edu/~aamghar6/History%20of%20the%20Taliban.htm

Verdict: who the hell really knows these days?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/12/21 15:33:42


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

May 2003: Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, claims that most of Afghanistan is now secure and that US-led forces had moved from major combat operations to stabilisation and reconstruction projects.


This is great news!

Anyway, these articles Relapse is posting are really eye opening as to how tremendously gakky foreign policy really crosses party lines - how democrats and republican administrations both really worked together over the years making bad call after bad all.

I remember Hekmatyar, who received more covert U.S. funding than any insurgent leader, as being an intense, humorless man with a full beard, glowering eyes and an attitude that seemed surprisingly anti-American for someone so totally dependent on U.S. aid


Your tax dollars at work.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Ouze, there were articles in the press during the 80's that praised Bin Laden as a freedom fighter. Little did we know...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Maddermax wrote:
So... Does this mean all those affected by drone strikes in Pakistan can sue the US government?


A very good point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/21 15:45:12


 
   
Made in ie
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





So what's next?..the families from Nagaski and Hiroshima can sue the U.S for the atomic bombs while we are at it?.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 SneakyMek wrote:
So what's next?..the families from Nagaski and Hiroshima can sue the U.S for the atomic bombs while we are at it?.


Well, those bombings were directly ordered by the US Government, and were arguably war crimes so out of all the examples given in this thread this would be the strongest case for international compensation so I have to say yes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/21 17:35:57


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Da Boss wrote:
One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.


Indeed, as these news links to an article from about Bin Laden from the 90's prove:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2013/12/06/_1993_independent_article_about_osama_bin_laden.html

Full article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/antisoviet-warrior-puts-his-army-on-the-road-to-peace-the-saudi-businessman-who-recruited-mujahedin-now-uses-them-for-largescale-building-projects-in-sudan-robert-fisk-met-him-in-almatig-1465715.html
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Oh man, nice find on those articles. Fascinating reading.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Ouze wrote:
Oh man, nice find on those articles. Fascinating reading.


Thanks. I remember reading several positive articles during those times. It's just a bit of a dig nowadays to find them.
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 SneakyMek wrote:
So what's next?..the families from Nagaski and Hiroshima can sue the U.S for the atomic bombs while we are at it?.


What is legally significant about those two bombings, versus the rest of what we did in Japan? We killed almost 90,000 people in a single night in Toyko with napalm - almost as many as were directly killed in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. And we used napalm a hell of a lot more. We destroyed two cities with nuclear weapons, but we incinerated another 64 with conventional weapons and napalm.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Relapse wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
Oh man, nice find on those articles. Fascinating reading.


Thanks. I remember reading several positive articles during those times. It's just a bit of a dig nowadays to find them.


I was in college many years back and was doing one of my speech assignments on bin Laden. I was going to talk about the two different aspects of him, fighter and builder, and do the while "is he good or bad" thing.

Believe it or not, but my due date for the speech was actually 9/11/01. We didn't do anything except watch the TV that class, and I did manage to get an extension to do a different topic...
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 d-usa wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
Oh man, nice find on those articles. Fascinating reading.


Thanks. I remember reading several positive articles during those times. It's just a bit of a dig nowadays to find them.


I was in college many years back and was doing one of my speech assignments on bin Laden. I was going to talk about the two different aspects of him, fighter and builder, and do the while "is he good or bad" thing.

Believe it or not, but my due date for the speech was actually 9/11/01. We didn't do anything except watch the TV that class, and I did manage to get an extension to do a different topic...



Irony to the nth degree there.
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Lets not forget the UK governments long history of collusion with Loyalist terrorists. As someone else said, people in glass houses.


Glass houses? Nonsense. If past UK Governments can be proven to have cooperated with and helped fund loyalist terror groups, then I think the UK should be sued too.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/northern-irelands-police-colluded-with-loyalists-to-cover-up-catholic-murders-8899964.html
Compelling evidence of large scale collusion between police and loyalist assassins in Northern Ireland is detailed in a new book about the Troubles which claims that more than 100 murders of Catholics involved members of the security forces.

It describes a number of documented cases where police and local soldiers took part in shootings and bombings which claimed the lives of Catholics. In other cases, murders by loyalists in the 1970s were “inexplicably” not properly investigated.

The book, Lethal Allies, draws on unpublished official documents in which detectives revisited cases from the 1970s. The investigators repeatedly say they found strong evidence of collusion in killings.

In one damning passage, police investigators urge “honest disclosure about these shocking, shameful and disgraceful crimes”, declaring that “families have received no justice to date”. The book is written by Anne Cadwallader, a veteran journalist and researcher at the Pat Finucane Centre, an organisation heavily critical of behaviour by the security forces. It draws on state and security force documents declassified in recent times.

Its strongest evidence is drawn from the Centre’s access to dozens of detailed reports given to families by the Historical Enquiries Team (HET), a “cold case” unit of the Police Service of Northern Ireland.

The organisation was until recently headed by the former Metropolitan Police commander Dave Cox.

In a striking conclusion, the HET says: “It is difficult to believe that such widespread evidence of collusion was not a significant concern at the highest levels of the security forces and government. It may be that there was apprehension about confirming the suspicions of collusion and involvement, particularly of RUC personnel.”

One internal military document quoted estimates between 5 and 15 per cent of members of the Ulster Defence Regiment, a locally recruited force under army control, were also members of loyalist groups, some of which were involved in many murders.

The HET, which has employed hundreds of former police officers from Northern Ireland and Britain, has provided families with hundreds of reports into murders. Allegations of collusion in rural areas where both the IRA and loyalists were active were often made in the 1970s, most notably by the crusading Catholic priest Father Denis Faul, but his claims were largely officially denied. The book substantiates many of his claims.

A number of members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the Ulster Defence Regiment, both since disbanded, were convicted on murder and other charges in the 1970s. But the HET reports point to repeated instances when other members of the security forces were not prosecuted, and where opportunities to gather evidence were ignored. One murder investigation is described as “shambolic”, while many police actions are described as inexplicable.

In one case a man convicted of killing a Catholic was described in court as a cheese processor. Police did not reveal that he was a serving member of the RUC reserve, and a reference to this fact was removed from court files. At his trial, police gave mitigating evidence on his behalf, saying he bitterly regretted the murder, which he had carried out together with other members of the security forces. Impressed by this, and unaware that the defendant had dual membership of the RUC and the UVF, the judge handed down a lighter sentence.

According to the HET: “The fact a defendant was working as a police officer while committing terrorist-related murders would undoubtedly have been a factor for consideration. Any decision to withhold this information from the court is an extraordinary matter.”

The HET did not examine the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings which killed 30 people in attacks where collusion has been alleged.

The critical HET reports will be cited by Sinn Fein and other critics of the security forces in support of their contention that the police and army employed “dirty tricks” during the Troubles. In recent years the PSNI has replaced the RUC, and things have changed so much that Sinn Fein formally supports the PSNI and appoints members to the Policing Board which supervises it.

Nonetheless, revelation of the HET’s conclusions that collusion was so widespread and so sinister will come as an embarrassment to the authorities, and to political figures who make a point of praising the role of the police and military during a time while the IRA was responsible for many killings.

According to Ms Cadwallader: “There was systemic collusion in the 1970s, and at different times it went to different levels. I think there must have been somebody trying to push Northern Ireland over the edge of the abyss. If there had been a virtual civil war I think that would have suited some people in London.”

Cold case: The killing that went uninvestigated

One of the many cases examined is that of Colm McCartney, a cousin of the Nobel laureate Seamus Heaney. He and a friend were shot dead by men in military uniform at a fake checkpoint in 1975, weeks after a similar shooting. The two were shot with weapons which were later used to kill three other Catholics.

The Historical Enquiries Team said the original police investigation into the killings “barely existed”, describing as “inexplicable” the police’s failure to interview eye-witnesses to the incident.

It added that because of this and other behaviour, it was unable to rebut or allay Catholic suspicions that investigations were not rigorously conducted in a deliberate effort to conceal security force involvement.

The report concluded: “The HET review has uncovered disturbing omissions and the lack of any structured investigative strategy. Indisputable evidence of security forces’ involvement with loyalist paramilitaries in one case, followed by significant evidence of further co-operation just weeks later, should have rung alarm bells all the way to the top of government. Nothing was done; the murderous cycle continued.”


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/12/12/uk-irish-britain-finucane-idUKBRE8BB0RT20121212
(Reuters) - British Prime Minister David Cameron said state collusion in the 1989 murder of a Northern Ireland lawyer had been "shocking" after a report on one of the province's most controversial killings condemned security services and government alike.

Pro-British paramilitaries shot Pat Finucane, who had acted for members of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) guerrilla group at the height of Northern Ireland's "Troubles", 14 times in front of his wife and three children at his Belfast home.

An independent report issued on Wednesday severely criticised members of the British intelligence services and army and the Northern Irish police for colluding in the killing and covering it up, although the author, top lawyer Desmond de Silva, found no evidence of an institutional conspiracy.

Protestant-dominated security forces were dogged by Catholic allegations of collusion with pro-British paramilitaries during the IRA's 30-year armed struggle to end British rule over the province and unite with largely Catholic Ireland. The accusations have already been borne out in previous reports.

"This report makes extremely difficult reading," Cameron, who commissioned the report and had previously accepted that there had been a degree of collusion and apologised to Finucane's family, told parliament.

"Sir Desmond is satisfied that there was not an 'over-arching state conspiracy to murder Patrick Finucane' but, while he rejects any state conspiracy, he does find shocking levels of state collusion."

"The collusion demonstrated beyond any doubt by Sir Desmond - which included the involvement of state agents in murder - is totally unacceptable ... Collusion should never, ever happen."


Quoting from the report, Cameron said the killers had received active help from members of the police, army or intelligence services to find Finucane, obtain a gun, dispose of it, and then avoid justice as investigations were obstructed.

De Silva, who was given access to secret documents, said two men involved in facilitating the killing had been in the pay of security services at the time of Finucane's death, and a third who was later convicted of the murder had become an agent once his involvement became known.

TRIALS

One of the agents, Brian Nelson, was jailed for 10 years in 1992 while a case against the other, William Stobie, collapsed in 2001. He was shot dead two months later.

Ken Barrett, who like Nelson and Stobie had been recruited from within Protestant paramilitary ranks, was tried and convicted of the murder in 2004.

De Silva came down heavily on the Protestant-dominated Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), since replaced by a new force under the terms of a peace agreement, and the army's Force Research Unit, as well as British politicians of the time.

"My overall conclusion is that there was a wilful and abject failure by successive Governments to provide the clear policy and legal framework necessary for agent-handling operations to take place effectively and within the law," he wrote.

A report in 2007 found that during the 1990s top officers in the RUC allowed Protestant paramilitary informers to carry out murders for more than a decade.

Finucane's widow Geraldine maintained her demand for an independent public inquiry, one that has been backed by the Irish government, and said yet another British government had "engineered a suppression of truth" about her husband's death.

"This report is a sham, this report is a whitewash, this report is a confidence trick dressed up as independent scrutiny. But most of all, most hurtful and insulting of all, this report is not the truth," she said in London.

"The dirt has been swept under the carpet without any serious attempt to lift the lid on what really happened to Pat and so many others."

Cameron repeated his apology to Finucane's relatives but, mindful of the 200 million pound cost of the public inquiry into Bloody Sunday - the shooting dead of 13 civil rights marchers in Londonderry by British troops in 1972 - he said he would not order a full public inquiry.

He said policing and security in Northern Ireland had been transformed in recent years, but that 10 days of street violence in Belfast showed that progress since a 1998 peace deal could not be taken for granted.

"We will not allow Northern Ireland to slip back to its bitter and bloody past," he said.



http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/collusion/chron.htm
Some profanity in spoiler
Spoiler:
Early 1987
The Force Research Unit (FRU) identified Brian Nelson, a former member of the Ulster Defence Association (UDA), as a potenital recruit. FRU persuaded Nelson to return to Northern Ireland and rejoin the UDA. The FRU initially paid him £200 a week to supply information. [The FRU was a special unit of Military (Army) Intelligence that was probably set up during 1979. FRU was a highly secret unit which sought to identify and recruit members of Republican and Loyalist paramilitary groups who could be persuaded to work as double agents on behalf of Military Intelligence.]

Autumn 1987
Brian Nelson, codenamed 6137, began supplying Army Intelligence with the Ulster Defence Association's (UDA) list of possible targets. Nelson also became the head of the UDA's intelligence gathering activities.

Sunday 12 February 1989
Finucane Killing
Patrick Finucane (38), a Catholic civilian, was shot dead by members of the Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF), a cover name (pseudonym) used by the Ulster Defence Association (UDA). Finucane was a Belfast solicitor who had represented a number of Republicans. He was killed at his home, Fortwilliam Drive, off Antrim Road, Belfast, in front of the members of his family. The shooting followed comments made (on 17 January 1989) by Douglas Hogg, then a British Home Office Minister, about a "number of solicitors in Northern Ireland who are unduly sympathetic to the cause of the IRA". [There were a number of accusations that there had been collusion between Loyalist paramilitaries and the security forces in the killing of Finucane. There were futher claims of collusion on 29 August 1989. On 17 April 1999 John Stevens, then deputy commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, returned to Northern Ireland to launch a third Inquiry specifically into the killing of Finucane. He also began to investigate allegations raised by campaign group British-Irish Rights Watch and the United Nations. Stevens' third report was presented to the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) on 17 April 2003. The report concluded that there had been collusion in the killing of Finucane between members of the security forces, especially the Force Research Unit (FRU), and Loyalists. See: Stevens summary report.]

Friday 25 August 1989
Loughlin Maginn was shot and killed by the Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF). [Claims were made on 29 August 1989 that the UFF had received security force details on Loughlin Maginn.]

Tuesday 29 August 1989 (?)
Claims of Collusion between Loyalists and Security Forces
The Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF) claimed that they had received security force files on Irish Republican Army (IRA) suspects. It was claimed that the death of Loughlin Maginn on 25 August 1989 was due to information supplied to the UFF by members of the security forces. [These claims revived accusations of security force collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries.]

Wednesday 10 January 1990
Stevens Inquiry Fire
The room being used by the Stevens Inquiry, into allegations of collusion between Loyalist paramilitaries and the security forces, was destroyed by a fire. The room was in a Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) station in Belfast. [A later RUC investigation concluded that the fire was an accident. Many commentators felt it unlikely that the fire was simply a coincidence. On 17 April 2003 Stevens wrote in the summary report of his third inquiry: "This incident, in my opinion, has never been adequately investigated and I believe it was a deliberate act of arson." (paragraph: 3.4).]

Thursday 17 May 1990
Summary of Stevens Report Published
A summary of the report of the Stevens Inquiry was published (first inquiry). The main finding of the report was that there had been evidence of collusion between members of the security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries. However it was the view of the inquiry that any collusion was "restricted to a small number of members of the security forces and is neither widespread nor institutionalised".
Wednesday 22 January 1992
Nelson Pleaded Guilty
Brian Nelson, who had operated as a British Army agent and a Ulster Defence Association (UDA) intelligence officer, pleaded guilty to five charges of conspiracy to murder and 14 charges of possessing information useful to terrorists. [Nelson was sentenced to 10 years' imprisonment. His decision to plead guilty meant that the security services did not have to justify their actions in court.]
Monday 8 June 1992
A British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) programme made a number of claims about Brian Nelson, who had operated as a British Army (BA) agent and a Ulster Defence Association (UDA) intelligence officer. The programme claimed that Nelson had been involved in 10 murders, attempted murders, or conspiracies to murder, and that his BA controllers had know of the events. The programme further claimed that in some instances BA intelligence had failed to pass on information about planned attacks to the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC).

Wednesday 3 March 1993
Six Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) soldiers were awarded undisclosed damages against Hugh Annesley, then Chief Constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), as a result of their arrest on 8 October 1989. The men had been arrested on the orders of the Stevens inquiry into allegations of collusion between the security forces and Loyalist paramilitary groups.

Wednesday 9 February 1994
Amnesty International published a report which claimed that there was "mounting evidence" of collusion between the security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries. The RUC said that the claims were "utter nonsense".

Sunday 8 May 1994
Rose Anne Mallon (76), a Catholic civilian, was shot dead by the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) at her relatives home, Cullenramer Road, Greystone, near Dungannon, County Tyrone. [On 27 July 1994 a neighbour discovered in a nearby field two security force surveillance cameras pointing at the house where the shooting took place. There were subsequent claims of collusion between the security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries.]

Wednesday 18 February 1998
The Committee on the Administration of Justice (CAJ) published a video entitled Policing the Police which highlighted a number of complaints against the RUC in relation to their policing of controversial parades in Nationalist areas. One clip showed Rosemary Nelson, then a solicitor based in Lurgan, County Armagh, who alleged she was physically and verbally abused by RUC officers when she tried to speak to them about their handling of a Nationalist demonstration against an Orange Order parade down the Garvaghy Road, Portadown. Nelson claimed that the RUC officers had called her a "Fenian fether" and had told her to "feth off" when she had asked for an officer's number. [Rosemary Nelson was killed by Loyalist paramilitaries on 15 March 1999 amid claims of security force collusion in her death.]

Thursday 11 February 1999
A new report on the death of Patrick Finucane, a Belfast solicitor who had represented a number of Republicans, claimed that there was collusion between Loyalist paramilitaries and British security forces in his death on 12 February 1989. More than 1,100 lawyers signed a petition calling for a independent judicial inquiry into the killing. The appeal for the inquiry was also supported by Amnesty International.

Monday 12 April 1999
UN Report on RUC
Param Cumaraswamy, then United Nations (UN) Special Rapporteur, published a report that criticised Ronnie Flanagan, then Chief Constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), over the alleged harassment of defence solicitors. Cumaraswamy also called for an independent inquiry into the killing of Pat Finucane because there was evidence of collusion between members of the security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries. Flanagan rejected an accusation of indifference over the matter. Marjorie (Mo) Mowlam, then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, said she would have talks with Cumaraswamy, about his report.

Wednesday 28 April 1999
John Stevens, then Deputy Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, stated that during one of his earlier investigations of collusion between Loyalists paramilitaries and the security forces had found a connection to the killing of Pat Finucane that had caused him "concern".

Tuesday 4 May 1999
Marjorie (Mo) Mowlam, then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, announced that there would be a new police investigation into allegations of collusion between the security services and Loyalist paramilitaries in the killing of Pat Finucane, a Belfast solicitor, on 12 February 1989. The Independent (a newspaper published in London) published details of an Irish government document that alleged collusion in the killing of Finucane.

Thursday 23 August 2001
Three men were charged with the possession of documents, between 1987 and 1990, that would have been useful to anyone planning or carrying out acts of terrorism. The charges were brought about as a result of the work of the Stevens Inquiry which is investigating allegations of collusion between the security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland. The documents contained details of "suspect" Republican paramilitary members in Newry, County Down, and Dundalk, Republic of Ireland. [The men appeared before Belfast High Court on 24 August 2001 and were released on bail.]

Monday 26 November 2001
The trial of William Stobie (51) collapsed when a central witness was considered incapable of giving evidence. Stobie had been accused of aiding and abetting in the murder of Pat Finucane, a Belfast solicitor killed on 12 February 1989. The Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) had decided that Neil Mulholland, a former journalist, was no longer a credible witness due to his mental state. In the absence of evidence the judge, Lord Chief Justice Sir Robert Carswell, returned a verdict of not guilty. [Stobie was a self-confessed Ulster Defence Association (UDA) quartermaster and Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) informer. He was also accused of aiding and abetting in the murder of Adam Lambert (19), a Protestant civilian, who was shot dead on 9 November 1987 because he was mistaken for a Catholic. Stobie had been arrested as a result of investigations by the Stevens (III) Inquiry.] Following the collapse of the Stobie trial the British government announced that it would appoint a judge of international standing to begin a fresh investigation into the Finucance killing and several other killings. There had been agreement during the Weston Park talks, which began on 9 July 2001, that such a judge would be appointed to investigate a series of killings where there were allegations that the security forces in Northern Ireland had colluded with Loyalist paramilitaries in the killings.

Wednesday 12 December 2001
Loyalists Kill William Stobie
William Stobie (51) was shot dead by Loyalist paramilitaries as he left his home, at approximately 6.15am (0615GMT), in Forthriver Road, in the Glencairn area of Belfast. Stobie was a self-confessed former Ulster Defence Association (UDA) quartermaster and a Loyalist police agent. The Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF), a cover name (pseudonym) used by the UDA, claimed responsibility, however some nationalists alleged that there had been security force collusion in the killing. [Stobie had been accused of aiding and abetting in the murder of Pat Finucane, a Belfast solicitor killed on 12 February 1989, but the case against him collapsed on 26 November 2001.]

Tuesday 12 February 2002
The Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, a group based in the United States of America (USA), published a report in to the death of Pat Finucane, a Belfast solicitor killed on 12 February 1989. The report was entitled: 'Beyond Collusion: The UK Security Forces and the Murder of Pat Finucane' [PDF FILE 324KB]. The report repeated earlier allegations of collusion between security forces and Loyalist paramilitary groups and also claimed to have found new evidence to support the claims.

Monday 27 May 2002
The family of Pat Finucane, killed on 12 February 1989, held talks with John Reid, then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. Following the meeting the family said they believed the appointment of an independent judge to review the case was a delaying tactic.

Monday 10 June 2002
Mr Justice Peter Cory, the former Canadian Supreme Court Judge, said that his investigation into six controversial killings in Northern Ireland could take two years. Cory was asked to look at six deaths including those of Pat Finucane, Rosemary Nelson and Billy Wright, and decide whether or not a public Inquiry should be undertaken.

Wednesday 19 June 2002
The BBC screened a 'Panorama' programme which looked at the evidence of collusion between the security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries. Following the screening there were calls for a full international independent judicial inquiry into the allegations. [See transcript of programme.]

Thursday 20 June 2002
Tony Blair, then British Prime Minister, said that details of any alleged collusion between the Northern Ireland security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries will be fully uncovered.

Tuesday 25 June 2002
It was announced that the report by Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir John Stevens into allegations of collusion between the security forces and loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland would be delayed until the autumn. Scotland Yard said the delay was because Sir John was determined that the report would be what it called "absolutely thorough".

Monday 2 September 2002
Hugh Orde began his first day as Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI). Orde had stepped down as the dective in charge of the day-to-day running of the Stevens Inquiry.
Wednesday 23 October 2002
It was announced that the publication of the report by Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir John Stevens into allegations of collusion between the security forces and loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland would be delayed for a second time.

Thursday 13 February 2003
The Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir John Stevens confirmed that he was preparing papers for the Director of Public Prosecutions in relation to Gordon Kerr, former head of Force Research Unit (FRU). Kerr had been promoted to Brigadier and made the British military attache in Beijing.

Friday 11 April 2003
Brian Nelson died in Canada.
Thrusday 17 April 2003
The Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir John Stevens published a summary of his (third) inquiry. [Stevens Enquiry: Overview and Recommendations, 17 April 2003. By Sir John Stevens QPM, DL, Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Service. This summary report was also made available as a PDF File; 243kb]

 
   
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Spoiler:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Lets not forget the UK governments long history of collusion with Loyalist terrorists. As someone else said, people in glass houses.


Glass houses? Nonsense. If past UK Governments can be proven to have cooperated with and helped fund loyalist terror groups, then I think the UK should be sued too.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/northern-irelands-police-colluded-with-loyalists-to-cover-up-catholic-murders-8899964.html
Compelling evidence of large scale collusion between police and loyalist assassins in Northern Ireland is detailed in a new book about the Troubles which claims that more than 100 murders of Catholics involved members of the security forces.

It describes a number of documented cases where police and local soldiers took part in shootings and bombings which claimed the lives of Catholics. In other cases, murders by loyalists in the 1970s were “inexplicably” not properly investigated.

The book, Lethal Allies, draws on unpublished official documents in which detectives revisited cases from the 1970s. The investigators repeatedly say they found strong evidence of collusion in killings.

In one damning passage, police investigators urge “honest disclosure about these shocking, shameful and disgraceful crimes”, declaring that “families have received no justice to date”. The book is written by Anne Cadwallader, a veteran journalist and researcher at the Pat Finucane Centre, an organisation heavily critical of behaviour by the security forces. It draws on state and security force documents declassified in recent times.

Its strongest evidence is drawn from the Centre’s access to dozens of detailed reports given to families by the Historical Enquiries Team (HET), a “cold case” unit of the Police Service of Northern Ireland.

The organisation was until recently headed by the former Metropolitan Police commander Dave Cox.

In a striking conclusion, the HET says: “It is difficult to believe that such widespread evidence of collusion was not a significant concern at the highest levels of the security forces and government. It may be that there was apprehension about confirming the suspicions of collusion and involvement, particularly of RUC personnel.”

One internal military document quoted estimates between 5 and 15 per cent of members of the Ulster Defence Regiment, a locally recruited force under army control, were also members of loyalist groups, some of which were involved in many murders.

The HET, which has employed hundreds of former police officers from Northern Ireland and Britain, has provided families with hundreds of reports into murders. Allegations of collusion in rural areas where both the IRA and loyalists were active were often made in the 1970s, most notably by the crusading Catholic priest Father Denis Faul, but his claims were largely officially denied. The book substantiates many of his claims.

A number of members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the Ulster Defence Regiment, both since disbanded, were convicted on murder and other charges in the 1970s. But the HET reports point to repeated instances when other members of the security forces were not prosecuted, and where opportunities to gather evidence were ignored. One murder investigation is described as “shambolic”, while many police actions are described as inexplicable.

In one case a man convicted of killing a Catholic was described in court as a cheese processor. Police did not reveal that he was a serving member of the RUC reserve, and a reference to this fact was removed from court files. At his trial, police gave mitigating evidence on his behalf, saying he bitterly regretted the murder, which he had carried out together with other members of the security forces. Impressed by this, and unaware that the defendant had dual membership of the RUC and the UVF, the judge handed down a lighter sentence.

According to the HET: “The fact a defendant was working as a police officer while committing terrorist-related murders would undoubtedly have been a factor for consideration. Any decision to withhold this information from the court is an extraordinary matter.”

The HET did not examine the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings which killed 30 people in attacks where collusion has been alleged.

The critical HET reports will be cited by Sinn Fein and other critics of the security forces in support of their contention that the police and army employed “dirty tricks” during the Troubles. In recent years the PSNI has replaced the RUC, and things have changed so much that Sinn Fein formally supports the PSNI and appoints members to the Policing Board which supervises it.

Nonetheless, revelation of the HET’s conclusions that collusion was so widespread and so sinister will come as an embarrassment to the authorities, and to political figures who make a point of praising the role of the police and military during a time while the IRA was responsible for many killings.

According to Ms Cadwallader: “There was systemic collusion in the 1970s, and at different times it went to different levels. I think there must have been somebody trying to push Northern Ireland over the edge of the abyss. If there had been a virtual civil war I think that would have suited some people in London.”

Cold case: The killing that went uninvestigated

One of the many cases examined is that of Colm McCartney, a cousin of the Nobel laureate Seamus Heaney. He and a friend were shot dead by men in military uniform at a fake checkpoint in 1975, weeks after a similar shooting. The two were shot with weapons which were later used to kill three other Catholics.

The Historical Enquiries Team said the original police investigation into the killings “barely existed”, describing as “inexplicable” the police’s failure to interview eye-witnesses to the incident.

It added that because of this and other behaviour, it was unable to rebut or allay Catholic suspicions that investigations were not rigorously conducted in a deliberate effort to conceal security force involvement.

The report concluded: “The HET review has uncovered disturbing omissions and the lack of any structured investigative strategy. Indisputable evidence of security forces’ involvement with loyalist paramilitaries in one case, followed by significant evidence of further co-operation just weeks later, should have rung alarm bells all the way to the top of government. Nothing was done; the murderous cycle continued.”


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/12/12/uk-irish-britain-finucane-idUKBRE8BB0RT20121212
(Reuters) - British Prime Minister David Cameron said state collusion in the 1989 murder of a Northern Ireland lawyer had been "shocking" after a report on one of the province's most controversial killings condemned security services and government alike.

Pro-British paramilitaries shot Pat Finucane, who had acted for members of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) guerrilla group at the height of Northern Ireland's "Troubles", 14 times in front of his wife and three children at his Belfast home.

An independent report issued on Wednesday severely criticised members of the British intelligence services and army and the Northern Irish police for colluding in the killing and covering it up, although the author, top lawyer Desmond de Silva, found no evidence of an institutional conspiracy.

Protestant-dominated security forces were dogged by Catholic allegations of collusion with pro-British paramilitaries during the IRA's 30-year armed struggle to end British rule over the province and unite with largely Catholic Ireland. The accusations have already been borne out in previous reports.

"This report makes extremely difficult reading," Cameron, who commissioned the report and had previously accepted that there had been a degree of collusion and apologised to Finucane's family, told parliament.

"Sir Desmond is satisfied that there was not an 'over-arching state conspiracy to murder Patrick Finucane' but, while he rejects any state conspiracy, he does find shocking levels of state collusion."

"The collusion demonstrated beyond any doubt by Sir Desmond - which included the involvement of state agents in murder - is totally unacceptable ... Collusion should never, ever happen."


Quoting from the report, Cameron said the killers had received active help from members of the police, army or intelligence services to find Finucane, obtain a gun, dispose of it, and then avoid justice as investigations were obstructed.

De Silva, who was given access to secret documents, said two men involved in facilitating the killing had been in the pay of security services at the time of Finucane's death, and a third who was later convicted of the murder had become an agent once his involvement became known.

TRIALS

One of the agents, Brian Nelson, was jailed for 10 years in 1992 while a case against the other, William Stobie, collapsed in 2001. He was shot dead two months later.

Ken Barrett, who like Nelson and Stobie had been recruited from within Protestant paramilitary ranks, was tried and convicted of the murder in 2004.

De Silva came down heavily on the Protestant-dominated Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), since replaced by a new force under the terms of a peace agreement, and the army's Force Research Unit, as well as British politicians of the time.

"My overall conclusion is that there was a wilful and abject failure by successive Governments to provide the clear policy and legal framework necessary for agent-handling operations to take place effectively and within the law," he wrote.

A report in 2007 found that during the 1990s top officers in the RUC allowed Protestant paramilitary informers to carry out murders for more than a decade.

Finucane's widow Geraldine maintained her demand for an independent public inquiry, one that has been backed by the Irish government, and said yet another British government had "engineered a suppression of truth" about her husband's death.

"This report is a sham, this report is a whitewash, this report is a confidence trick dressed up as independent scrutiny. But most of all, most hurtful and insulting of all, this report is not the truth," she said in London.

"The dirt has been swept under the carpet without any serious attempt to lift the lid on what really happened to Pat and so many others."

Cameron repeated his apology to Finucane's relatives but, mindful of the 200 million pound cost of the public inquiry into Bloody Sunday - the shooting dead of 13 civil rights marchers in Londonderry by British troops in 1972 - he said he would not order a full public inquiry.

He said policing and security in Northern Ireland had been transformed in recent years, but that 10 days of street violence in Belfast showed that progress since a 1998 peace deal could not be taken for granted.

"We will not allow Northern Ireland to slip back to its bitter and bloody past," he said.



http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/collusion/chron.htm
Some profanity in spoiler
[spoiler]
Early 1987
The Force Research Unit (FRU) identified Brian Nelson, a former member of the Ulster Defence Association (UDA), as a potenital recruit. FRU persuaded Nelson to return to Northern Ireland and rejoin the UDA. The FRU initially paid him £200 a week to supply information. [The FRU was a special unit of Military (Army) Intelligence that was probably set up during 1979. FRU was a highly secret unit which sought to identify and recruit members of Republican and Loyalist paramilitary groups who could be persuaded to work as double agents on behalf of Military Intelligence.]

Autumn 1987
Brian Nelson, codenamed 6137, began supplying Army Intelligence with the Ulster Defence Association's (UDA) list of possible targets. Nelson also became the head of the UDA's intelligence gathering activities.

Sunday 12 February 1989
Finucane Killing
Patrick Finucane (38), a Catholic civilian, was shot dead by members of the Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF), a cover name (pseudonym) used by the Ulster Defence Association (UDA). Finucane was a Belfast solicitor who had represented a number of Republicans. He was killed at his home, Fortwilliam Drive, off Antrim Road, Belfast, in front of the members of his family. The shooting followed comments made (on 17 January 1989) by Douglas Hogg, then a British Home Office Minister, about a "number of solicitors in Northern Ireland who are unduly sympathetic to the cause of the IRA". [There were a number of accusations that there had been collusion between Loyalist paramilitaries and the security forces in the killing of Finucane. There were futher claims of collusion on 29 August 1989. On 17 April 1999 John Stevens, then deputy commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, returned to Northern Ireland to launch a third Inquiry specifically into the killing of Finucane. He also began to investigate allegations raised by campaign group British-Irish Rights Watch and the United Nations. Stevens' third report was presented to the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) on 17 April 2003. The report concluded that there had been collusion in the killing of Finucane between members of the security forces, especially the Force Research Unit (FRU), and Loyalists. See: Stevens summary report.]

Friday 25 August 1989
Loughlin Maginn was shot and killed by the Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF). [Claims were made on 29 August 1989 that the UFF had received security force details on Loughlin Maginn.]

Tuesday 29 August 1989 (?)
Claims of Collusion between Loyalists and Security Forces
The Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF) claimed that they had received security force files on Irish Republican Army (IRA) suspects. It was claimed that the death of Loughlin Maginn on 25 August 1989 was due to information supplied to the UFF by members of the security forces. [These claims revived accusations of security force collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries.]

Wednesday 10 January 1990
Stevens Inquiry Fire
The room being used by the Stevens Inquiry, into allegations of collusion between Loyalist paramilitaries and the security forces, was destroyed by a fire. The room was in a Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) station in Belfast. [A later RUC investigation concluded that the fire was an accident. Many commentators felt it unlikely that the fire was simply a coincidence. On 17 April 2003 Stevens wrote in the summary report of his third inquiry: "This incident, in my opinion, has never been adequately investigated and I believe it was a deliberate act of arson." (paragraph: 3.4).]

Thursday 17 May 1990
Summary of Stevens Report Published
A summary of the report of the Stevens Inquiry was published (first inquiry). The main finding of the report was that there had been evidence of collusion between members of the security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries. However it was the view of the inquiry that any collusion was "restricted to a small number of members of the security forces and is neither widespread nor institutionalised".
Wednesday 22 January 1992
Nelson Pleaded Guilty
Brian Nelson, who had operated as a British Army agent and a Ulster Defence Association (UDA) intelligence officer, pleaded guilty to five charges of conspiracy to murder and 14 charges of possessing information useful to terrorists. [Nelson was sentenced to 10 years' imprisonment. His decision to plead guilty meant that the security services did not have to justify their actions in court.]
Monday 8 June 1992
A British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) programme made a number of claims about Brian Nelson, who had operated as a British Army (BA) agent and a Ulster Defence Association (UDA) intelligence officer. The programme claimed that Nelson had been involved in 10 murders, attempted murders, or conspiracies to murder, and that his BA controllers had know of the events. The programme further claimed that in some instances BA intelligence had failed to pass on information about planned attacks to the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC).

Wednesday 3 March 1993
Six Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) soldiers were awarded undisclosed damages against Hugh Annesley, then Chief Constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), as a result of their arrest on 8 October 1989. The men had been arrested on the orders of the Stevens inquiry into allegations of collusion between the security forces and Loyalist paramilitary groups.

Wednesday 9 February 1994
Amnesty International published a report which claimed that there was "mounting evidence" of collusion between the security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries. The RUC said that the claims were "utter nonsense".

Sunday 8 May 1994
Rose Anne Mallon (76), a Catholic civilian, was shot dead by the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) at her relatives home, Cullenramer Road, Greystone, near Dungannon, County Tyrone. [On 27 July 1994 a neighbour discovered in a nearby field two security force surveillance cameras pointing at the house where the shooting took place. There were subsequent claims of collusion between the security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries.]

Wednesday 18 February 1998
The Committee on the Administration of Justice (CAJ) published a video entitled Policing the Police which highlighted a number of complaints against the RUC in relation to their policing of controversial parades in Nationalist areas. One clip showed Rosemary Nelson, then a solicitor based in Lurgan, County Armagh, who alleged she was physically and verbally abused by RUC officers when she tried to speak to them about their handling of a Nationalist demonstration against an Orange Order parade down the Garvaghy Road, Portadown. Nelson claimed that the RUC officers had called her a "Fenian fether" and had told her to "feth off" when she had asked for an officer's number. [Rosemary Nelson was killed by Loyalist paramilitaries on 15 March 1999 amid claims of security force collusion in her death.]

Thursday 11 February 1999
A new report on the death of Patrick Finucane, a Belfast solicitor who had represented a number of Republicans, claimed that there was collusion between Loyalist paramilitaries and British security forces in his death on 12 February 1989. More than 1,100 lawyers signed a petition calling for a independent judicial inquiry into the killing. The appeal for the inquiry was also supported by Amnesty International.

Monday 12 April 1999
UN Report on RUC
Param Cumaraswamy, then United Nations (UN) Special Rapporteur, published a report that criticised Ronnie Flanagan, then Chief Constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), over the alleged harassment of defence solicitors. Cumaraswamy also called for an independent inquiry into the killing of Pat Finucane because there was evidence of collusion between members of the security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries. Flanagan rejected an accusation of indifference over the matter. Marjorie (Mo) Mowlam, then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, said she would have talks with Cumaraswamy, about his report.

Wednesday 28 April 1999
John Stevens, then Deputy Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, stated that during one of his earlier investigations of collusion between Loyalists paramilitaries and the security forces had found a connection to the killing of Pat Finucane that had caused him "concern".

Tuesday 4 May 1999
Marjorie (Mo) Mowlam, then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, announced that there would be a new police investigation into allegations of collusion between the security services and Loyalist paramilitaries in the killing of Pat Finucane, a Belfast solicitor, on 12 February 1989. The Independent (a newspaper published in London) published details of an Irish government document that alleged collusion in the killing of Finucane.

Thursday 23 August 2001
Three men were charged with the possession of documents, between 1987 and 1990, that would have been useful to anyone planning or carrying out acts of terrorism. The charges were brought about as a result of the work of the Stevens Inquiry which is investigating allegations of collusion between the security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland. The documents contained details of "suspect" Republican paramilitary members in Newry, County Down, and Dundalk, Republic of Ireland. [The men appeared before Belfast High Court on 24 August 2001 and were released on bail.]

Monday 26 November 2001
The trial of William Stobie (51) collapsed when a central witness was considered incapable of giving evidence. Stobie had been accused of aiding and abetting in the murder of Pat Finucane, a Belfast solicitor killed on 12 February 1989. The Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) had decided that Neil Mulholland, a former journalist, was no longer a credible witness due to his mental state. In the absence of evidence the judge, Lord Chief Justice Sir Robert Carswell, returned a verdict of not guilty. [Stobie was a self-confessed Ulster Defence Association (UDA) quartermaster and Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) informer. He was also accused of aiding and abetting in the murder of Adam Lambert (19), a Protestant civilian, who was shot dead on 9 November 1987 because he was mistaken for a Catholic. Stobie had been arrested as a result of investigations by the Stevens (III) Inquiry.] Following the collapse of the Stobie trial the British government announced that it would appoint a judge of international standing to begin a fresh investigation into the Finucance killing and several other killings. There had been agreement during the Weston Park talks, which began on 9 July 2001, that such a judge would be appointed to investigate a series of killings where there were allegations that the security forces in Northern Ireland had colluded with Loyalist paramilitaries in the killings.

Wednesday 12 December 2001
Loyalists Kill William Stobie
William Stobie (51) was shot dead by Loyalist paramilitaries as he left his home, at approximately 6.15am (0615GMT), in Forthriver Road, in the Glencairn area of Belfast. Stobie was a self-confessed former Ulster Defence Association (UDA) quartermaster and a Loyalist police agent. The Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF), a cover name (pseudonym) used by the UDA, claimed responsibility, however some nationalists alleged that there had been security force collusion in the killing. [Stobie had been accused of aiding and abetting in the murder of Pat Finucane, a Belfast solicitor killed on 12 February 1989, but the case against him collapsed on 26 November 2001.]

Tuesday 12 February 2002
The Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, a group based in the United States of America (USA), published a report in to the death of Pat Finucane, a Belfast solicitor killed on 12 February 1989. The report was entitled: 'Beyond Collusion: The UK Security Forces and the Murder of Pat Finucane' [PDF FILE 324KB]. The report repeated earlier allegations of collusion between security forces and Loyalist paramilitary groups and also claimed to have found new evidence to support the claims.

Monday 27 May 2002
The family of Pat Finucane, killed on 12 February 1989, held talks with John Reid, then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. Following the meeting the family said they believed the appointment of an independent judge to review the case was a delaying tactic.

Monday 10 June 2002
Mr Justice Peter Cory, the former Canadian Supreme Court Judge, said that his investigation into six controversial killings in Northern Ireland could take two years. Cory was asked to look at six deaths including those of Pat Finucane, Rosemary Nelson and Billy Wright, and decide whether or not a public Inquiry should be undertaken.

Wednesday 19 June 2002
The BBC screened a 'Panorama' programme which looked at the evidence of collusion between the security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries. Following the screening there were calls for a full international independent judicial inquiry into the allegations. [See transcript of programme.]

Thursday 20 June 2002
Tony Blair, then British Prime Minister, said that details of any alleged collusion between the Northern Ireland security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries will be fully uncovered.

Tuesday 25 June 2002
It was announced that the report by Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir John Stevens into allegations of collusion between the security forces and loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland would be delayed until the autumn. Scotland Yard said the delay was because Sir John was determined that the report would be what it called "absolutely thorough".

Monday 2 September 2002
Hugh Orde began his first day as Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI). Orde had stepped down as the dective in charge of the day-to-day running of the Stevens Inquiry.
Wednesday 23 October 2002
It was announced that the publication of the report by Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir John Stevens into allegations of collusion between the security forces and loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland would be delayed for a second time.

Thursday 13 February 2003
The Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir John Stevens confirmed that he was preparing papers for the Director of Public Prosecutions in relation to Gordon Kerr, former head of Force Research Unit (FRU). Kerr had been promoted to Brigadier and made the British military attache in Beijing.

Friday 11 April 2003
Brian Nelson died in Canada.
Thrusday 17 April 2003
The Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir John Stevens published a summary of his (third) inquiry. [Stevens Enquiry: Overview and Recommendations, 17 April 2003. By Sir John Stevens QPM, DL, Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Service. This summary report was also made available as a PDF File; 243kb]
[/spoiler]

In that case, lets bring criminal charges and lawsuits. I want all corrupt governments, politicians and officials to be held to account no matter who they are and what their nationality is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/22 14:24:36


 
   
Made in ca
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife





Toronto, Canada

So who exactly will go to Saudi to collect ......lol

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Dundee, Scotland/Dharahn, Saudi Arabia

I'm there already, I can just pop up to Riyadh to collect.
The money can "rest" in my accounts

If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it.
item 87, skippys list
DC:70S+++G+++M+++B+++I++Pw40k86/f#-D+++++A++++/cWD86R+++++T(D)DM++ 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Today is a good day.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.

Seems a bit racist.

Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate. 
   
Made in ie
Screaming Shining Spear






 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Thats fantastic!

But will the families of the IRA's victims now be able to sue the USA for financing Irish terrorism?

If not, then this decision smacks of hypocrisy.


please do id love to see America see themselves bitten in the ass also slightly off topic, but I know its what they want to be called but I never give them the honour of calling the IRA in irish history the IRA were heroes who fought for our independence, its sickening to see their name dirtied

 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Wut? The USA funded the IRA?
o.O

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
 
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