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My group has gotten in the habit of announcing what each vehicle is armed with as we deploy, and if its any sort of proxy, we make sure its understood.

OP, to answer your question: yes, you should inform your opponent if you're model repping. It's common courtesy, being a good sport, and simply put...not being a (insert bad word).

I like using a setup table or area next to the game table. Both players put their armies up on the table/area. It makes ease for deployment, allows you to store random gaming stuff (bags, books, etc.), and finally, allows both sides to do a quick run-down of each unit. It helps to clear up any rules also. It helps me, I can't remember every special/unique rule in the game.

Also while deploying, instead of simply placing the model, state what it is or should be.

IMO, your opponent has a very diluted win (nothing to brag about), since he tried to be sneaky by not informing proxies or previously being defensive with his army list disclosures.

Tau players.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Tau players.

?

 Banzaimash wrote:
I got in a bit of an argument not so long ago with a Tau player who had taken an Ion Cannon on his Hammerhead, but the model had a Railgun (which is what he's always used it as). It was only when we'd deployed and my marines were footslogging up a road and were unable to go any way except backwards or forwards did I find out that his tank was using an Ion cannon, and as a result lost over half my 20 marines.

Not only this, but to avoid what I thought would be a Str 10 AP1 solid shot, my Demolisher had deployed on a parallel street, and so was unable to bring its guns to bear for half the game, and because my marines had been blasted into small ineffectual squads of 4 and 3 they were no longer able to fulfill their goal of ousting the Fire Dragons hiding in an perpendicular street connecting to the street which the Russ was on, and so the tank couldn't advance without getting messed up.

Ultimately I lost, and was a bit miffed about him not telling me about the tank, which would have naturally made me deploy differently. What was worse was his bragging that he'd bested me because of a clear strategic supremacy, which I thought was not quite a fair assessment. All in all, was I wrong for not checking his list (he gets pissed when I do, he says I don't trust him) or was I right to feel a bit cheated of a fair chance. I understand he paid the points, I just wish he'd told me.

of course he had to say it....but also ask "anything not as modeled?" before every game against anyone to prevent these types of D-Bag moves..

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Tau players.

Bring it human scum!!!

one a more serious note; douchebags have no army allegiance.

 Krellnus wrote:

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Tau players.

?

That's quite the interesting answer to the question "Should you inform your opponent if you're model repping?"

davethepak wrote:

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Tau players.

Bring it human scum!!!

one a more serious note; douchebags have no army allegiance.

To be fair he's been collecting Tau since 4th edition (it was his first army). It's just he's begun playing like this ever since the new codex dropped; it's strange like that.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Tau players.

I take offense to that. I'm a tau player and I ALWAYS announce every tiny bit on my army, including the wargear pieces that got no model and therefor are "invisible"
Unless its a guy I play against alot and he knows the unit already (my necron buddy knows my hammerheads I bring against him are always packing ion cannons, drones and Dpods) so its redundant. and If I make any change from the norm, I tell him.

 Banzaimash wrote:

davethepak wrote:

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Tau players.

Bring it human scum!!!

one a more serious note; douchebags have no army allegiance.

To be fair he's been collecting Tau since 4th edition (it was his first army). It's just he's begun playing like this ever since the new codex dropped; it's strange like that.

The solution to this one isn't easy, but it is neccessary.

You need to borrow his codex overnight. You'll need some other supplies as well - a tub of salt, two candles (the dribblier the better), a small religious icon, some matches, a sterilised pin and a reading light. Oh, and a reference to this post so you can check back the instructions.

Once you're alone, use the salt to create a circle large enough for you to sit in with the candles set up in front of you either side of the codex. Switch the lights off, then sit in the circle and use the pin to prick your finger and let a drop of blood fall onto the salt while invoking your deity's name and willing it to close and seal. Light the candles, then extinguish the match by pressing it against the pinprick to seal it. Pick up the codex and inform it that is to become clean and untainted, again invoking your deity.

Open the codex, using the reading light to read the first page, and then inform it again that it is to become clean and untainted, invoking your deity. Turn the page, and do this again for each page thereafter.

When you reach the end of the codex, close it and inform it that it has become clean, invoking the name of your deity. Place it on the floor between the candles, switch off the reading light, and give obeisance to your deity, before breaking the circle by sweeping aside a portion of it with your hand. Finally, extinguish the candles whose flames now hold the "curse of douchebaggery" that you have removed from the Tau codex. The book should now be safe to read without turning everyone who does so into a complete tfg, but such curses are persistent - I recommend each person who reads it do so only while performing this purification ritual.

I also recommend not using the chaos gods during your ritual. They can purify things, but they're likely to find some way to screw you over in another way in exchange.

 Banzaimash wrote:


To be fair he's been collecting Tau since 4th edition (it was his first army). It's just he's begun playing like this ever since the new codex dropped; it's strange like that.

To the underlined: Don't let him. If he continues this behavior, don't play him.

Before every game, I usually ask politely my opponent about his army. If there's something unclear, such as proxying or weapon/unit I'm not familiar with, asking is the best solution to avoid diagreements.

If he gets annoyed, that's a shame. As a player you have full right to know his list (providing you let him know of yours as well, of course).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Banzaimash wrote:

davethepak wrote:

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Tau players.

Bring it human scum!!!

one a more serious note; douchebags have no army allegiance.

To be fair he's been collecting Tau since 4th edition (it was his first army). It's just he's begun playing like this ever since the new codex dropped; it's strange like that.

The solution to this one isn't easy, but it is neccessary.

You need to borrow his codex overnight. You'll need some other supplies as well - a tub of salt, two candles (the dribblier the better), a small religious icon, some matches, a sterilised pin and a reading light. Oh, and a reference to this post so you can check back the instructions.

Once you're alone, use the salt to create a circle large enough for you to sit in with the candles set up in front of you either side of the codex. Switch the lights off, then sit in the circle and use the pin to prick your finger and let a drop of blood fall onto the salt while invoking your deity's name and willing it to close and seal. Light the candles, then extinguish the match by pressing it against the pinprick to seal it. Pick up the codex and inform it that is to become clean and untainted, again invoking your deity.

Open the codex, using the reading light to read the first page, and then inform it again that it is to become clean and untainted, invoking your deity. Turn the page, and do this again for each page thereafter.

When you reach the end of the codex, close it and inform it that it has become clean, invoking the name of your deity. Place it on the floor between the candles, switch off the reading light, and give obeisance to your deity, before breaking the circle by sweeping aside a portion of it with your hand. Finally, extinguish the candles whose flames now hold the "curse of douchebaggery" that you have removed from the Tau codex. The book should now be safe to read without turning everyone who does so into a complete tfg, but such curses are persistent - I recommend each person who reads it do so only while performing this purification ritual.

I also recommend not using the chaos gods during your ritual. They can purify things, but they're likely to find some way to screw you over in another way in exchange.

The instructions weren't clear enough. I got my hand stuck in a ceiling fan.
Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if this is necessary after all... Well I don't know, could be

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Banzaimash wrote:

davethepak wrote:

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Tau players.

Bring it human scum!!!

one a more serious note; douchebags have no army allegiance.

To be fair he's been collecting Tau since 4th edition (it was his first army). It's just he's begun playing like this ever since the new codex dropped; it's strange like that.

The solution to this one isn't easy, but it is neccessary.

You need to borrow his codex overnight. You'll need some other supplies as well - a tub of salt, two candles (the dribblier the better), a small religious icon, some matches, a sterilised pin and a reading light. Oh, and a reference to this post so you can check back the instructions.

Once you're alone, use the salt to create a circle large enough for you to sit in with the candles set up in front of you either side of the codex. Switch the lights off, then sit in the circle and use the pin to prick your finger and let a drop of blood fall onto the salt while invoking your deity's name and willing it to close and seal. Light the candles, then extinguish the match by pressing it against the pinprick to seal it. Pick up the codex and inform it that is to become clean and untainted, again invoking your deity.

Open the codex, using the reading light to read the first page, and then inform it again that it is to become clean and untainted, invoking your deity. Turn the page, and do this again for each page thereafter.

When you reach the end of the codex, close it and inform it that it has become clean, invoking the name of your deity. Place it on the floor between the candles, switch off the reading light, and give obeisance to your deity, before breaking the circle by sweeping aside a portion of it with your hand. Finally, extinguish the candles whose flames now hold the "curse of douchebaggery" that you have removed from the Tau codex. The book should now be safe to read without turning everyone who does so into a complete tfg, but such curses are persistent - I recommend each person who reads it do so only while performing this purification ritual.

I also recommend not using the chaos gods during your ritual. They can purify things, but they're likely to find some way to screw you over in another way in exchange.

Do not forget to invoke the Flying Spaghetti Monster as your deity

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Banzaimash wrote:

davethepak wrote:

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Tau players.

Bring it human scum!!!

one a more serious note; douchebags have no army allegiance.

To be fair he's been collecting Tau since 4th edition (it was his first army). It's just he's begun playing like this ever since the new codex dropped; it's strange like that.

The solution to this one isn't easy, but it is neccessary.

You need to borrow his codex overnight. You'll need some other supplies as well - a tub of salt, two candles (the dribblier the better), a small religious icon, some matches, a sterilised pin and a reading light. Oh, and a reference to this post so you can check back the instructions.

Once you're alone, use the salt to create a circle large enough for you to sit in with the candles set up in front of you either side of the codex. Switch the lights off, then sit in the circle and use the pin to prick your finger and let a drop of blood fall onto the salt while invoking your deity's name and willing it to close and seal. Light the candles, then extinguish the match by pressing it against the pinprick to seal it. Pick up the codex and inform it that is to become clean and untainted, again invoking your deity.

Open the codex, using the reading light to read the first page, and then inform it again that it is to become clean and untainted, invoking your deity. Turn the page, and do this again for each page thereafter.

When you reach the end of the codex, close it and inform it that it has become clean, invoking the name of your deity. Place it on the floor between the candles, switch off the reading light, and give obeisance to your deity, before breaking the circle by sweeping aside a portion of it with your hand. Finally, extinguish the candles whose flames now hold the "curse of douchebaggery" that you have removed from the Tau codex. The book should now be safe to read without turning everyone who does so into a complete tfg, but such curses are persistent - I recommend each person who reads it do so only while performing this purification ritual.

I also recommend not using the chaos gods during your ritual. They can purify things, but they're likely to find some way to screw you over in another way in exchange.

Do not forget to invoke the Flying Spaghetti Monster as your deity

thread /done

Yes. Always. Not doing so is tantamount to cheating... "But what do you mean that tactical squad is a unit of assault terminators??? If I had known that I wouldn't have let them get so close!"

Next game, field only plain bases, don't explain what anything is and tell him he doesn't trust you if you start looking at the army sheet.

First: why the hell would anyone misrepresent a cannon and not make that clear? that's skirting the grey zone of cheating already there. You can't be expected to stand there and go "ok, and that bolter, is that actually a bolter? Yes? Ok. What about that one?"

second, the only people that would get miffed about looking at their army are people that tend to do a little bit of cheating with points or such and are afraid of getting caught.

I've little to add to what's already been said on the subject. WYSIWYG for 40K should apply to the weapons that a warrior/tank is equipped with pretty much all the time. Upgrades really don't require it* in most practical games.

There are some measures you can do to help counter this kind of behaviour:

1) Have a club rule for written army lists. An army list does not take long to write and often as not when you don't write a list its easy to add up the army wrong (you might end up over or under costed).
This helps since it prevents people putting down stuff that they shouldn't and clears the air on upgrades being used; especially when thing are not WYSIWYG. It also prevents people using or forgetting to use upgrades mid-game. This isn't always by intent to cheat and can often simply be that they forgot - or that they've started playing the army in a new way.

2) Do not play cheaters - anyone who clearly is trying to pull the wool over your eyes or sneak things in for a win shouldn't be played. If they can't play fair then don't play - they generally get the message when no one at the club wants to play them and start cleaning up their act. If not they'll either leave or find a segment of the group that don't care (if the group is big enough).

3) Tutorials/modelling sessions - WYSIWYG even on just weapons can be expensive - tanks, big nid monsters - even thing like tactical groups with different weapon configurations can be very expensive if a person wants to use different weapon options.
Thus running teaching classes during the club times to teach others how to magnetize can be a very worthwhile activity. It can show them how to save a lot in money whilst being able to field a variable list on the table.




*upgrades are often tiny details on models and very easily overlooked or often invisible to casual viewing. Grenades on most marines or guardsmen are just going to be part of the detail of the model whilst seals or marks on marines won't be recognised for specific upgrades. As such whilst you can certainly model with upgrades if you wish, most people practically don't expect it. They expect a clear army list and a clear indication of what units are in what squad on the table; but otherwise I've yet to meet any game that insisted upon upgrades being modelled.

I always ask at the start of a games if anything is not wysiwyg and if so I ask to see the list.

Doesn't matter if the opponent gets annoyed, it's a game.

I have all my lists in a folder printed out and I always hand it over at the start of the game out of respect for the other player.

This is like, 80% his fault and 20% your fault, IMO.

The fact you seem to have a history with him - "he doesn't like you checking his army lists" makes that a little suspect though, but I'm presuming good faith.

If you play a weapon as something other than what is modelled, the onus is on you to make sure your opponent is clear on what is actually equipped. It's best to address this before the game starts.

I had a situation like this once, where I was that guy, and was using a Land Raider Redeemer (and not a Crusader as my friend thought, even though it was in my army list and I mentioned it briefly). There was no TFG intent - we're good friends and neither one of us really cares who wins - and I've since learned that you need to really reiterate it. So I'm willing to allow for that it was perhaps a misunderstanding.

Imo, it makes sense to always go through with your opponent what you've brought to the table.

I always list like this:

"Okay, I've got a DP w/Black Mace, a PM squad with 2 plasmaguns... etc"

And them at the end point out any proxies/counts-as, even if I and my opponent always use them that way.

Just makes sense...