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Why did they even make FW to begin with?

So they could control the market for titan models instead of Armorcast doing it.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Iron_Captain wrote:
They are just two faces of the same company.
People who say that Forgeworld is not 'legal' because they are not GW are clearly mad. Forgeworld is as much part of GW as they could possibly be. Just because they sell through a different website, does not mean they are a different company.

Unfortunately there are people who will yell until they are blue in the face that they are not, and that FW is not legal, until it's basically all on one website and there's a gigantic FAQ on the main gw page saying so

Yes, just had a debate at the FLGS regarding whether to allow Escalation in the local league, and one player was adamant that if we did, only the lords of war printed in the escalation book would be legal, and no others. Despite the selection from Escalation being just an arbitrary selection from the Apoc book that give certain factions far superior superheavy choices than others. He kept insisting that the FW FAQ that lists what models are lords of war (including the ones from the GW Apoc book, that only the ones in the escalation book are approved by GW for escalation games.

 d-usa wrote:
I guess this will mean the end of:

-Proxies
-Unpainted armies
-non-based models
-Non-GW models.

And from now on everybody will play:

-strict WYSIWYG, for every weapon.
- Mandatory Movement trays if you have more than one model

Games Workshop has spoken. This is now the law....

Ummm... Way to misrepresent the argument?
I never said it makes FW legal because it says so, I'm saying because they are acknowledging FW as part of GW, the anti-FW crowd has less of a foot to stand on.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

Ummm... Way to misrepresent the argument?
I never said it makes FW legal because it says so, I'm saying because they are acknowledging FW as part of GW, the anti-FW crowd has less of a foot to stand on.

Sadly, that faction has never needed a foot to stand on - they're sitting on the evidence to try and hide it.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I guess this will mean the end of:

-Proxies
-Unpainted armies
-non-based models
-Non-GW models.

And from now on everybody will play:

-strict WYSIWYG, for every weapon.
- Mandatory Movement trays if you have more than one model

Games Workshop has spoken. This is now the law....

Ummm... Way to misrepresent the argument?
I never said it makes FW legal because it says so, I'm saying because they are acknowledging FW as part of GW, the anti-FW crowd has less of a foot to stand on.

Not really. Only the anti-FW crowd who are anti-FW for perceived legal/technical reasons, rather than a lack of familiarity or a perception of FW as being over-powered. The number of people who reject FW because they regard them as a different company from gw is tiny, but it's also the easiest catagory to find evidence that directly contradicts it.

Wasn't that just a declaration/errata of the rules they use at Warhammer World? In a sense, aren't those just "House Rules" for when you go and play at their store?

It's still a "meh" announcement. GW could have come out and said "you can only play 6th Edition Warhammer 40K at Warhammer World" and probably received the same reaction.

For me, I'll never play at Warhammer World unless I suddenly find myself very rich. They can come out with whatever house rules they want and it will affect me zero.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I guess this will mean the end of:

-Proxies
-Unpainted armies
-non-based models
-Non-GW models.

And from now on everybody will play:

-strict WYSIWYG, for every weapon.
- Mandatory Movement trays if you have more than one model

Games Workshop has spoken. This is now the law....

Ummm... Way to misrepresent the argument?
I never said it makes FW legal because it says so, I'm saying because they are acknowledging FW as part of GW, the anti-FW crowd has less of a foot to stand on.

It also acknowledges that you should never play with unpainted minis and that you should never proxy or use third-party parts. So the pro-proxy and pro-"I don't have time to paint I wanna play" crowds have less of a foot to stand on.

Doesn´t matter.

At the end of the day, it is the same as ever:

-> If you play with your friends or in casual games, talk with the other player. There is no "official 40k". You really need to talk before the game.
-> If you play in a tournament, ask the person running the tournament. He is the one in charge.

Easy. And it has always been this way.

 da001 wrote:
Doesn´t matter.

At the end of the day, it is the same as ever:

-> If you play with your friends or in casual games, talk with the other player. There is no "official 40k". You really need to talk before the game.
-> If you play in a tournament, ask the person running the tournament. He is the one in charge.

Easy. And it has always been this way.

That pretty much sums it up. As I said in one of the other threads on this very topic, these are the rules for warhammer world and no where else. Decide amongst yourselves what your group wants to go with and don't worry about what's going on elsewhere.

 d-usa wrote:
I guess this will mean the end of:

-Proxies
-Unpainted armies
-non-based models
-Non-GW models.

And from now on everybody will play:

-strict WYSIWYG, for every weapon.
- Mandatory Movement trays if you have more than one model

Games Workshop has spoken. This is now the law....

Exalted for awesomeness.

 d-usa wrote:


It also acknowledges that you should never play with unpainted minis and that you should never proxy or use third-party parts. So the pro-proxy and pro-"I don't have time to paint I wanna play" crowds have less of a foot to stand on.

It doesn't mention the punishment for attempting to play with unpainted minis, though. It should be severe.

Mutilation, I guess.

Sounds fair to me.

 kronk wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I guess this will mean the end of:

-Proxies
-Unpainted armies
-non-based models
-Non-GW models.

And from now on everybody will play:

-strict WYSIWYG, for every weapon.
- Mandatory Movement trays if you have more than one model

Games Workshop has spoken. This is now the law....

Exalted for awesomeness.

 d-usa wrote:


It also acknowledges that you should never play with unpainted minis and that you should never proxy or use third-party parts. So the pro-proxy and pro-"I don't have time to paint I wanna play" crowds have less of a foot to stand on.

It doesn't mention the punishment for attempting to play with unpainted minis, though. It should be severe.

I still think you've missed what my argument is. I couldn't care less what they allow at their events; what my point was the fact that they have put FW in brackets after GW.
Which is what many anti-FW players were searching for before they would accept FW: open admission by GW that FW was part of GW.
(maybe I should use fewer acronyms... )

Tactical_Genius wrote:

I still think you've missed what my argument is. I couldn't care less what they allow at their events; what my point was the fact that they have put FW in brackets after GW.
Which is what many anti-FW players were searching for before they would accept FW: open admission by GW that FW was part of GW.
(maybe I should use fewer acronyms... )

The problem is, that was only ever the straw argument of the "you-must-play-FW-at-all-costs" crowd.

Nobody ever denied the FW is the same business as GW. Nobody ever denied that Forge World is "legal" (other than that the term of legal is utterly meaningless for a voluntary game).

Nothing, however, changes the fact that you have the right to turn down any game that doesn't look enjoyable (outside tournaments, where you sort-of "opt-in" to multiple games at once by choosing to play the tournament) and that people bringing Forge World rules (or unpainted armies, or hard-core-compt.-lists, etc..) to a "stranger's table" should have the cutesy to ask if their opponent is happy with it.

Anything stamped '40k approved' is approved to play in 40k. That's why it's stamped '40k approved', FW design team don't work in a bubble of imagination somewhere, they sit down and chat at great length with the GW design team, these are two teams of the same company's staff, these things don't occur in a void.

Anything on the Escalation list from forgeworld is approved to play in 40k whereever escalation is accepted as new fully integrated 40k rules. This has the same legitimacy and strength as the ruling that Escalation is a whole addition to the rules rather than an optional upgrade, if you accept escalation into your hearts and minds, the forgeworld list of things to use in it is as valid and equal.

If you're allowing a Stompa, you're allowing a Manta, welcome to the new rules.

The entire ethos behind GW's decisions recently is one of total inclusion, with the onus on individual players and their gaming groups to create any exclusion. Forge World army lists for 40k are, guess what, that's right, fully incorporated into 40k unless your group excludes them, on a personal choice basis.

If you have the models, they want you to be able to field them on a regular table for a regular game of 40k, if you decide that D class weaponry is too powerful, until they change their own minds and FAQ/amend them, they want you to make the choice in your group to either ban them or change them as you see fit.

Hmmm. Considering the aim of gw run events is to have fun. Personally I'm not sure allowing forge world minis will detract from this.
There are many Indy tournaments out there if competitive play is your thing

 d-usa wrote:
I guess this will mean the end of:

-Proxies
-Unpainted armies
-non-based models
-Non-GW models.

And from now on everybody will play:

-strict WYSIWYG, for every weapon.
- Mandatory Movement trays if you have more than one model

Games Workshop has spoken. This is now the law....

Whelp guys I guess I need to go out and buy 80 or so of every chaos daemon HQ because you have to roll a d6 to find out what weapons/items they get. Who knows!?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Why did they even make FW to begin with?

More money and avoiding extra taxes.

 Zweischneid wrote:
people bringing Forge World rules (or unpainted armies, or hard-core-compt.-lists, etc..) to a "stranger's table" should have the cutesy to ask if their opponent is happy with it.

Only if people bringing well-painted armies, "casual" or "fluffy" lists, codex rules, etc also have the courtesy to ask if their opponent is happy with it. FW is no different from anything else GW produces, so please stop acting like it requires some special permission/courtesy/whatever that other things don't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Which is what many anti-FW players were searching for before they would accept FW: open admission by GW that FW was part of GW.

This. Of course we all know what's going to happen, after insisting that any official word from GW would get them to admit it, the anti-FW crowd will find some other "proof" to demand. It's not about getting an answer from GW, it's about making excuses to justify their FW bans.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
people bringing Forge World rules (or unpainted armies, or hard-core-compt.-lists, etc..) to a "stranger's table" should have the cutesy to ask if their opponent is happy with it.

Only if people bringing well-painted armies, "casual" or "fluffy" lists, codex rules, etc also have the courtesy to ask if their opponent is happy with it. FW is no different from anything else GW produces (...)

Well said.

This is a social game, it implies talking with other people.

Let me say that FW is better than people making paper printouts (2D) and fielding them (seen this, no lie). I pretty much accept anything after that. It is a niche for getting the full 40k experience. It remains to be seen how much comes out OP and then exploited (then hopefully fixed). FW still seems to be the hippie part of GW family so there is some hope.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
people bringing Forge World rules (or unpainted armies, or hard-core-compt.-lists, etc..) to a "stranger's table" should have the cutesy to ask if their opponent is happy with it.

Only if people bringing well-painted armies, "casual" or "fluffy" lists, codex rules, etc also have the courtesy to ask if their opponent is happy with it. FW is no different from anything else GW produces, so please stop acting like it requires some special permission/courtesy/whatever that other things don't.

Agreed. Everything is subject to pre-game talk. Stop acting like Forge World stuff is getting some special-snow-flake free auto-include pass. It doesn't.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
people bringing Forge World rules (or unpainted armies, or hard-core-compt.-lists, etc..) to a "stranger's table" should have the cutesy to ask if their opponent is happy with it.

Only if people bringing well-painted armies, "casual" or "fluffy" lists, codex rules, etc also have the courtesy to ask if their opponent is happy with it. FW is no different from anything else GW produces, so please stop acting like it requires some special permission/courtesy/whatever that other things don't.

Agreed. Everything is subject to pre-game talk. Stop acting like Forge World stuff is getting some special-snow-flake free auto-include pass. It doesn't.

Okay good. Now that it seems that we all agree that FW stuff is no different from GW stuff, can we sit down and have nice tea? With biscuits. There have to be biscuits.

And gin. Lots of gin.

This "Warrior's Code" applies to Warhammer World, not to other venues.

I think 80% of my Tyranid army would fail the Warrior's Code. Most of it is converted and uses non-standard weapons or non-GW parts.

How about ending the debate over playing with unpainted models?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
This "Warrior's Code" applies to Warhammer World, not to other venues.

I think 80% of my Tyranid army would fail the Warrior's Code. Most of it is converted and uses non-standard weapons or non-GW parts.

How about ending the debate over playing with unpainted models?

Again, that isn't the argument here.

And this argument is had on the other threads where this document is brought up.

This document does not reflect corporate policy of GW. It is just for one location.

I am frankly they allow experimental rules for regular play at Warhammer World. Time for every Tau player to bring two R'Varna Battlesuits and laugh at their indestructible units.*

*unless someone managed to bring overwhelming amounts of Grav or poison weaponry