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I actually see a few possible reasons Trevi was de charactered, assuming it was intended. First is so you can't take it as your sole HQ. Next is to allow OOE to actually use his Warlord trait and still have a synapse HQ. Third would be to prevent Challenges when in the Troop slot.

 Formosa wrote:
Well this seems like more raw nonsense, Sammy has a warlord trait thst still works if he is on his speeder, not allowed to be warlord means no warlord trait and the mention of his speeder would be moot.

This is correct. It's a flaw in the codex that has been discussed on and off since the codex dropped.



Yes, it's likely that Sam was intended to be still be the Warlord when in his speeder. It's also likely that as DA was one of the first 6th edition books, the guy who wrote it just overlooked the fact that putting him in the speeder stops him from being a character.

Whatever the intention was, the rules as they currently stand don't allow it. Some players choose to ignore that... others find it a better option to just play it as per the rules until GW get around to fixing it. They've certainly had ample time to do so if that was actually their intention.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Formosa, the standard on this forum is RAW.

No it isn't.

I would disagree with you full on that insaniak.
Most threads are about RAW on here making the standard or common discussion RAW.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
I would disagree with you full on that insaniak.
Most threads are about RAW on here making the standard or common discussion RAW.

Discussions here generally focus on RAW, yes... but quite often also touch on (or focus exclusively on) HIWPI, and neither is a more 'correct' topic within this forum.

Has someone got the page and general area where "Char only as Warlord" is?
Thanks

Page 111, right at the top. It doesn't say that non-characters can't be the warlord, but it gives no permission to make a non-character the warlord without some other special rules such as Iyanden does.

Chrysis wrote:
Page 111, right at the top. It doesn't say that non-characters can't be the warlord, but it gives no permission to make a non-character the warlord without some other special rules such as Iyanden does.

In my book it simply state "it must be your HQ choice with the highest Ld" . I can't find the Characters-only part, could you give me the reference?
Oh ,the next sentence about characters with the same Ld value? How is that part phrased in English?

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

Chrysis wrote:
Page 111, right at the top. It doesn't say that non-characters can't be the warlord, but it gives no permission to make a non-character the warlord without some other special rules such as Iyanden does.

In my book it simply state "it must be your HQ choice with the highest Ld" . I can't find the Characters-only part, could you give me the reference?

Mine says "HQ choice character with the..." (digital edition)

 grendel083 wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

Chrysis wrote:
Page 111, right at the top. It doesn't say that non-characters can't be the warlord, but it gives no permission to make a non-character the warlord without some other special rules such as Iyanden does.

In my book it simply state "it must be your HQ choice with the highest Ld" . I can't find the Characters-only part, could you give me the reference?

Mine says "HQ choice character with the..." (digital edition)

Keeping in mind that I've got the French translation and that I'm losing faith in the newer translation team, I still think they'd have translated such an important part if it was in the book at the beginning. I'll try to get an English rulebook to check that out.

Thanks:

Very top of Page 111:

When choosing your army, you must nominate one model to be your Warlord. This is always th HQ choice character with the highest Leadership. If several(...)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

Chrysis wrote:
Page 111, right at the top. It doesn't say that non-characters can't be the warlord, but it gives no permission to make a non-character the warlord without some other special rules such as Iyanden does.

In my book it simply state "it must be your HQ choice with the highest Ld" . I can't find the Characters-only part, could you give me the reference?

Mine says "HQ choice character with the..." (digital edition)

Keeping in mind that I've got the French translation and that I'm losing faith in the newer translation team, I still think they'd have translated such an important part if it was in the book at the beginning. I'll try to get an English rulebook to check that out.

See above

 BlackTalos wrote:
Thanks:

Very top of Page 111:

When choosing your army, you must nominate one model to be your Warlord. This is always th HQ choice character with the highest Leadership. If several(...)

The French one simply has "Il s'agit toujours du choix de QG avec la plus haute valeur de Commandement. ..." Which litteraly means
This is always the HQ choice with the highest Leadership value. ..."
The new French translation team GW got since 6th ha been butchering through previous work that sounded perfectly fine if it wasn't a litteral translation to give us awful sounding barely closer to the original translations .

That's no way to talk about Google translate
It tries it's best...

 BlackTalos wrote:
Has someone got the page and general area where "Char only as Warlord" is?
Thanks

The warlord rules state it in the list of restrictions on the warlord.

 grendel083 wrote:
That's no way to talk about Google translate
It tries it's best...

Oh poor old google wouldn't dare to do what these monsters did. They turned perfectly fine aspect warriors names into goofy, far from impressive clowns
(arguably for their enemies it always was the case)
Turned Genetealers into genovores (ugh) and turned the Hive Crone into a sexually dominating woman.
Before they move away from their HQ in France I might have to do a bombing run down there...

 Formosa wrote:
Well this seems like more raw nonsense, Sammy has a warlord trait thst still works if he is on his speeder, not allowed to be warlord means no warlord trait and the mention of his speeder would be moot.

While I understand this may be raw it is yet another reason why pure raw is idiotic as rai is very clear here, Sammy on speeder can be warlord any other conclusion feels like rule manipulations to gain advantage.
As always you guys do as you please

Looking at the DA Codex. Sammel's profile complete changes on his speeder and he loses the Warlord Trait completely and the Character status.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
Thanks:

Very top of Page 111:

When choosing your army, you must nominate one model to be your Warlord. This is always the HQ choice character with the highest Leadership. If several(...)

The French one simply has "Il s'agit toujours du choix de QG avec la plus haute valeur de Commandement. ..." Which litteraly means
This is always the HQ choice with the highest Leadership value. ..."
The new French translation team GW got since 6th ha been butchering through previous work that sounded perfectly fine if it wasn't a litteral translation to give us awful sounding barely closer to the original translations .

Not even the next part?
When choosing your army, you must nominate one model to be your Warlord. This is always the HQ choice character with the highest Leadership. If several characters are tied for highest Leadership, you choose among them which is your Warlord.

barnowl wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Well this seems like more raw nonsense, Sammy has a warlord trait thst still works if he is on his speeder, not allowed to be warlord means no warlord trait and the mention of his speeder would be moot.

While I understand this may be raw it is yet another reason why pure raw is idiotic as rai is very clear here, Sammy on speeder can be warlord any other conclusion feels like rule manipulations to gain advantage.
As always you guys do as you please

Looking at the DA Codex. Sammel's profile complete changes on his speeder and he loses the Warlord Trait completely and the Character status.

Actually it doesn't. He remains a Special Character and retains Independent Character status. Being a character has never been dependent on unit type.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

barnowl wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Well this seems like more raw nonsense, Sammy has a warlord trait thst still works if he is on his speeder, not allowed to be warlord means no warlord trait and the mention of his speeder would be moot.

While I understand this may be raw it is yet another reason why pure raw is idiotic as rai is very clear here, Sammy on speeder can be warlord any other conclusion feels like rule manipulations to gain advantage.
As always you guys do as you please

Looking at the DA Codex. Sammel's profile complete changes on his speeder and he loses the Warlord Trait completely and the Character status.

Actually it doesn't. He remains a Special Character and retains Independent Character status. Being a character has never been dependent on unit type.

Acutally now being a character is directly tied to a unit type X(character). I'm looking at the rules and the speeder doesn't list any such character reference and it says to replace his profile with the speeders, that's rules. It's a Vehicles (fast, skimmer) not a character. The rules for sammuel's speeder are more specific than the general special character rules as the specifically remove his character status.

Where does it state a character is defined only as unit type character? People used to argue Mephiston wasn't a character either. Special characters are by definition characters and again, nothing removes his independent character status by switching to a speeder.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Where does it state a character is defined only as unit type character? People used to argue Mephiston wasn't a character either. Special characters are by definition characters and again, nothing removes his independent character status by switching to a speeder.

It in fact does:
"Sableclaw: Should you choose to field Sammael
mounted on his Land Speeder instead of on his jetbike,
the following profile is used instead"

And
"SPECIAL RULES: Deep Strike."

The Sableclaw rules only give him the Special Rule Deep Strike. He loses Hit and Run, Inner Circle, Scouts, Skilled Rider and IC status.

barnowl wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Where does it state a character is defined only as unit type character? People used to argue Mephiston wasn't a character either. Special characters are by definition characters and again, nothing removes his independent character status by switching to a speeder.

It in fact does:
"Sableclaw: Should you choose to field Sammael
mounted on his Land Speeder instead of on his jetbike,
the following profile is used instead"

And
"SPECIAL RULES: Deep Strike."

The Sableclaw rules only give him the Special Rule Deep Strike. He loses Hit and Run, Inner Circle, Scouts, Skilled Rider and IC status.

Yes just to add to this for completeness in NL's understanding, 'Independant character' is a special rule, not a Unit type. Character is a unit type, which is usually proceeded by Infantry type etc.

barnowl wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Where does it state a character is defined only as unit type character? People used to argue Mephiston wasn't a character either. Special characters are by definition characters and again, nothing removes his independent character status by switching to a speeder.

It in fact does:
"Sableclaw: Should you choose to field Sammael
mounted on his Land Speeder instead of on his jetbike,
the following profile is used instead"

And
"SPECIAL RULES: Deep Strike."

The Sableclaw rules only give him the Special Rule Deep Strike. He loses Hit and Run, Inner Circle, Scouts, Skilled Rider and IC status.

BS. It in no way says the SabeClaw replaces anything but unit type. Those rules you gave are just for his Landspeeder, and regardless he remains a special character vehicle, of which the Warlord chart specifically makes allowances for.

It says it replaces his profile, you know the thing that lists everything about the model....
If your assertion was true he'd still have a plasma cannon and storm bolter from corax since they "weren't replaced".

 NecronLord3 wrote:

barnowl wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Where does it state a character is defined only as unit type character? People used to argue Mephiston wasn't a character either. Special characters are by definition characters and again, nothing removes his independent character status by switching to a speeder.

It in fact does:
"Sableclaw: Should you choose to field Sammael
mounted on his Land Speeder instead of on his jetbike,
the following profile is used instead"

And
"SPECIAL RULES: Deep Strike."

The Sableclaw rules only give him the Special Rule Deep Strike. He loses Hit and Run, Inner Circle, Scouts, Skilled Rider and IC status.

BS. It in no way says the SabeClaw replaces anything but unit type. Those rules you gave are just for his Landspeeder, and regardless he remains a special character vehicle, of which the Warlord chart specifically makes allowances for.

No going to post the full rules, but yes it does, Take a second and go read them with out assuming anything. The Corvax has one set of rules and the Sableclaw has a different set.

If I had to guess, I would bet when they copy/pasted from the last dex, they forgot to add Character to the terv's type and, whenever they get around to the FAQ, this will get corrected. Just another example of how much effort was actually put into writing this book.

 Battlesong wrote:
If I had to guess, I would bet when they copy/pasted from the last dex, they forgot to add Character to the terv's type and, whenever they get around to the FAQ, this will get corrected. Just another example of how much effort was actually put into writing this book.

I am pretty much thinking this will be the case.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

barnowl wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Where does it state a character is defined only as unit type character? People used to argue Mephiston wasn't a character either. Special characters are by definition characters and again, nothing removes his independent character status by switching to a speeder.

It in fact does:
"Sableclaw: Should you choose to field Sammael
mounted on his Land Speeder instead of on his jetbike,
the following profile is used instead"

And
"SPECIAL RULES: Deep Strike."

The Sableclaw rules only give him the Special Rule Deep Strike. He loses Hit and Run, Inner Circle, Scouts, Skilled Rider and IC status.

BS. It in no way says the SabeClaw replaces anything but unit type. Those rules you gave are just for his Landspeeder, and regardless he remains a special character vehicle, of which the Warlord chart specifically makes allowances for.

No, he's not a special character when he's a vehicle.

sorry rigel you are totally wrong there, he is a special character regardless of speeder or bike, if you were correct all i would have to do is take him on his speeder and suddenly he would no longer take up a HQ as he is no longer a special character or anything really. it dunny make sense homes

 Formosa wrote:
sorry rigel you are totally wrong there, he is a special character regardless of speeder or bike, if you were correct all i would have to do is take him on his speeder and suddenly he would no longer take up a HQ as he is no longer a special character or anything really. it dunny make sense homes

That has no basis in fact.
My stance has basis in rules:

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: Do models classified as unique count as characters? (p63)
A: Yes, but not in the case of vehicles (with the exception of Bjorn the Fell-handed).

Sammy in his speeder is not a character. Full stop.

I understand all of the RAW, but this is just one of the probable typos/omissions in this book.