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 Formosa wrote:
sorry rigel you are totally wrong there, he is a special character regardless of speeder or bike, if you were correct all i would have to do is take him on his speeder and suddenly he would no longer take up a HQ as he is no longer a special character or anything really. it dunny make sense homes

Why would the unit no longer take up an HQ slot? The unit no longer has sammy in it and instead has the speeder. The speeder is not a special character and has a unit type of Vehicle.

What does a HQ slot have to do with character status?

Just for a bit of a giggle... when was the last time a tervigon was mentioned in this thread? :-p

 DJGietzen wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
sorry rigel you are totally wrong there, he is a special character regardless of speeder or bike, if you were correct all i would have to do is take him on his speeder and suddenly he would no longer take up a HQ as he is no longer a special character or anything really. it dunny make sense homes

Why would the unit no longer take up an HQ slot? The unit no longer has sammy in it and instead has the speeder. The speeder is not a special character and has a unit type of Vehicle.

He a hq and a special character that takes up the hq slot, if he isn't a special character then what is he ?

If something isn't what it says it is then what is it, it doesn't make sense to me following the logic that rigel is putting forward, why isn't a special character a character is basically what I'm asking?

Because the brb FAQ limits vehicles and the specific entry in the codex lists the vehicle as not being a character. The entry specifically says what it is.

As for the not taking up a slot, where does it say that it doesn't take up a slot when he's in the speeder. Without those words then it's just a baseless assertion.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Formosa, the standard on this forum is RAW. If you don't like it then stop engaging.

In that case, how do you feel about the Pyrovore nuke? Killing him hits EVERY UNIT ON THE BOARD. We all know that is not RAI, but it is RAW.

Whenever intent is even in any reasonable doubt, we fall back on RAW. But in the case of arguing that a character with a Warlord trait can never be a warlord? That's a bit... illogical. I understand that the Tervigon can not be a Warlord. The question is, however, does a list with only a Tervi HQ have no warlord, or must they change their list?

Technically, they must change their list. Same as a dark angels list with only Sammy in his speeder. In friendly games there generally won't be a problem. In a tournament, check with the TO.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Because the brb FAQ limits vehicles and the specific entry in the codex lists the vehicle as not being a character. The entry specifically says what it is.

As for the not taking up a slot, where does it say that it doesn't take up a slot when he's in the speeder. Without those words then it's just a baseless assertion.

I agree it's baseless but that is the logic I'm seeing, Sammy is bought as a special character in the hq slot, so if his speeder isn't a special character what is it, why does he suddenly stop being a special character?
I'd argue that the special character is alone enough to indicate he is a character but this all whiffs of loopholing and trying to find ways of stopping your opponent from useing him as a character to me.

 Formosa wrote:

 DJGietzen wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
sorry rigel you are totally wrong there, he is a special character regardless of speeder or bike, if you were correct all i would have to do is take him on his speeder and suddenly he would no longer take up a HQ as he is no longer a special character or anything really. it dunny make sense homes

Why would the unit no longer take up an HQ slot? The unit no longer has sammy in it and instead has the speeder. The speeder is not a special character and has a unit type of Vehicle.

He a hq and a special character that takes up the hq slot, if he isn't a special character then what is he ?

If something isn't what it says it is then what is it, it doesn't make sense to me following the logic that rigel is putting forward, why isn't a special character a character is basically what I'm asking?

You replace Sammael in the unit with Sableclaw. Sammael is a Jetbike (Character). Sableclaw is a Vehicle (Fast, Skimmer). As Sableclaw is not a character then this unit cannot be a warlord but the unit did not stop existing, nor did it stop being an HQ choice.

But is still a special character, so are special character....characters?

 Formosa wrote:
But is still a special character, so are special character....characters?

It's the "Unique" rule that makes a special character a special character.

1) The warlord does not need to be a special character, just a character.
2) Special characters have to be characters first and Sableclaw is not a character because that's not part of its unit type.

Sableclaw does not meet the requirements to be a warlord because Sableclaw is not a character. Being a vehicle is insignificant. If Sableclaw was listed as both a character and a vehicle then it could be a warlord, but its not listed that way and we have no special permission to treat it like a character so its missing one of the two requirements to be a warlord. Its basically the same reason you can't have a Tactical Sargent lead your army. While the Tactical Sargent is a character, its not an HQ choice and also fails to meet one of the two requirements to be a warlord.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 grendel083 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
But is still a special character, so are special character....characters?

It's the "Unique" rule that makes a special character a special character.

other way round. Being a special character makes them unique. They can be unique and not be special characters.

So are special characters, characters?

Yes, asked and answered move on.

Special characters are characters, however, except for Bjorn, vehicles (even unique vehicles) are not characters.

Cheers happy Jew, alot of people were posting long winded answers and not actually answering the yes or no question, cheers dj too for the succinct answer.

So the answer is yes he is a character on his speeder but then the faq forbids this and thus makes him not a character, gotcha

Well simple RAW,, unless an FAQ I've missed has edited it, a Tervigon can never be your mandatory HQ because you would not have a Warlord. Meaning you cannot have a maxed out 2/4 HQW Tervigons and will need another HQ in there to Warlord.

rigeld2 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

barnowl wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Where does it state a character is defined only as unit type character? People used to argue Mephiston wasn't a character either. Special characters are by definition characters and again, nothing removes his independent character status by switching to a speeder.

It in fact does:
"Sableclaw: Should you choose to field Sammael
mounted on his Land Speeder instead of on his jetbike,
the following profile is used instead"

And
"SPECIAL RULES: Deep Strike."

The Sableclaw rules only give him the Special Rule Deep Strike. He loses Hit and Run, Inner Circle, Scouts, Skilled Rider and IC status.

BS. It in no way says the SabeClaw replaces anything but unit type. Those rules you gave are just for his Landspeeder, and regardless he remains a special character vehicle, of which the Warlord chart specifically makes allowances for.

No, he's not a special character when he's a vehicle.

Great I'll take two of them!

Just because he is no longer a special character, does not make him no longer unique.

 Happyjew wrote:
Just because he is no longer a special character, does not make him no longer unique.

Sorry the rules for unique units only pertains to special characters, and since he no longer is one, it is irrelevant.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Just because he is no longer a special character, does not make him no longer unique.

Sorry the rules for unique units only pertains to special characters, and since he no longer is one, it is irrelevant.

He is still unique. You can only have one.
He's just not a character, as per the FAQ.

Please direct me to the section of the main rule book governing unique units.

Please direct me to the rules that say a special character follows the rules for characters.

Ghaz wrote:Please direct me to the rules that say a special character follows the rules for characters.

Pg 110 of the BRB

NecronLord3 wrote:Please direct me to the section of the main rule book governing unique units.

Pg 90 of the Dark Angels codex.

 DJGietzen wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:Please direct me to the section of the main rule book governing unique units.

Pg 90 of the Dark Angels codex.

Good point, but not the main rule book, which was my point.

nvr mind