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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I really don't like this data slate approach. This is something you do after a codex has been out a year and you want to release new wargear or a new unit.

If you buy a eBook it should come with a 1 year plan that you get all data slates and revisions for free up to a year after purchase if they're going to pull stunts like this.

It's an absolute pain, as a player who may only want to play a single army, to keep all of this stuff straight. You almost need to meet up an hour before a game so you can read through half a dozen codex and data slates just to play a match.
   
Made in pt
Tea-Kettle of Blood




 Kanluwen wrote:


And you do realise that other companies usually give these theme forces for "free" with their army books or at least as "free" content in their respective magazines?

So in both cases, they're not actually "free". They're part of something else.


And I doubt that anyone would complain if GW adopted the same model and released them in the codex or as content in WD...

But please keep on defending decisions that are worse for the consumer base than any of the alternatives.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

PhantomViper wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:


And you do realise that other companies usually give these theme forces for "free" with their army books or at least as "free" content in their respective magazines?

So in both cases, they're not actually "free". They're part of something else.


And I doubt that anyone would complain if GW adopted the same model and released them in the codex or as content in WD...

But please keep on defending decisions that are worse for the consumer base than any of the alternatives.

Oh yeah, because Corvus Belli and their Dire Foes decision was so great for the consumer base.

That said--if they released it as content in WD, you'd have another category of complaints entirely when the issue went out of stock.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/15 17:37:31


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Those were not good for other reasons.

But making a unit nearly unplayable in the codex (genestealers) and releasing a dataslate to make them playable does, indeed, suck. And is not something I'm planning to support... will be making do the best I can with the base tyranid book.

Also, because as I said, I don't think a lot of tournies are going to allow Dataslates and formations. If you do, you have to let in the Tau Riptide/Broadside insanity ones, too, and the ones that just give a unit a special rule it doesn't normally have... it's too confusing, and tournies will have to draw the line somewhere.

GW is making this a very easy place to draw the line.
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






 Kanluwen wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:


And you do realise that other companies usually give these theme forces for "free" with their army books or at least as "free" content in their respective magazines?

So in both cases, they're not actually "free". They're part of something else.


And I doubt that anyone would complain if GW adopted the same model and released them in the codex or as content in WD...

But please keep on defending decisions that are worse for the consumer base than any of the alternatives.

Oh yeah, because Corvus Belli and their Dire Foes decision was so great for the consumer base.

That said--if they released it as content in WD, you'd have another category of complaints entirely when the issue went out of stock.


So only release dataslates that have completely new and necessary rules (Be'Lakor) and give them out for free online at your home site, downloadable right next to the FAQs and Erratas.

Seriously I don't think anyone knows what's legal in a 'standard' game of 40K anymore. We have core rules, codices, codex supplements, rules supplements, rules expansions, forgeworld units in various books that may or may not be easy to acquire, datasheets, and dataslates. Everything goes? Is this a good way to run a game? Why did GW actually move away from this anarchistic approach a few editions ago? Why did they go back to it now?

Will the next edition of Warhammer kill the monobook armies in that game as well? Malekith and Tyrion will probably run some deathstar as battle brothers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/15 17:47:39


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Fargo, ND USA

 Therion wrote:
Why did they go back to it now?


Because GW doesn't care gak about the game, just the green.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in ca
Master Sergeant





I feel the same. The dex should have everything in it to make it playable across the board on release. If GW put something out a year or so later to add some updates to the dex is one thing but to release it around the same time to make units that are mediocre playable so that my dex actually costs more for a decent army is unacceptable.

On top of that dataslates are not in hardcopy versions so many people will not be able/wont buy devices to use them. All rules for an army should be released in the same format.

As RiTides said GW is making it easier to stop buying GW product and encouraging people to walk away.
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord







No book version? Not interested.

FFS GW, do an annual, compendium or something.

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

In the end, it hurts their profits to run their game badly... but that's for them to figure out over time. In the meantime, TOs will just have to exclude some of this nonsense in order to keep track of rules and be able to make calls in a tournament.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Norwich

I don't agree with the dataslates either, so I will happily download it for free, if it's worth buying then I will, I downloaded the cypher one had a quick browse, loved the artwork and the amount of fluff etc. Deleted my downloaded copy and bought it legally, with the inane costs there asking for these things I refuse to waste money if I don't have to, on the flip side I'm happy to support a quality product and will pay if it's good.

   
Made in pt
Tea-Kettle of Blood




 Kanluwen wrote:

Oh yeah, because Corvus Belli and their Dire Foes decision was so great for the consumer base.


I wasn't aware that Dire Foes contained any Sectorial Army lists?
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

PhantomViper wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:

Oh yeah, because Corvus Belli and their Dire Foes decision was so great for the consumer base.


I wasn't aware that Dire Foes contained any Sectorial Army lists?

Each box contains a scenario mission and details for the scenario.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 RiTides wrote:

But making a unit nearly unplayable in the codex (genestealers) and releasing a dataslate to make them playable does, indeed, suck.


Well you are assuming that the units are playable in the dataslates.

   
Made in us
Raging Rat Ogre





Left Coast

 RiTides wrote:
Those were not good for other reasons.

But making a unit nearly unplayable in the codex (genestealers) and releasing a dataslate to make them playable does, indeed, suck. And is not something I'm planning to support... will be making do the best I can with the base tyranid book.

Also, because as I said, I don't think a lot of tournies are going to allow Dataslates and formations. If you do, you have to let in the Tau Riptide/Broadside insanity ones, too, and the ones that just give a unit a special rule it doesn't normally have... it's too confusing, and tournies will have to draw the line somewhere.

GW is making this a very easy place to draw the line.


I was intrigued with this announcement at first, as I thought maybe for just a second, the vanguard dataslate would include rules for Genestealer cults. Having been a fan of everything Genestealer since I picked up the original Space Hulk in 1989. The 2nd Edition codex had stuff on Genestealer cults and that's the last time we saw them.

I don't see why anyone is bothering to play this game competitively anymore. For all the reasons you listed here, and the fact that GW itself has plainly stated they are not interested in making a balanced tournament friendly game. They are diluting the game to the point of anarchy...play whatever you want any time you want. Its great for a beer-and-pretzels game with buddies in the garage, but as far as a balanced tournament ready game...it is anything but. TOs have to write their own separate tome of rules just to pull out and ban all of the nonsensical combinations and builds that completely break the game.

The Dataslates have one purpose, and one purpose only...to get you to pay more for army lists/options that would have normally come in the army book in previous editions, or as stated previously, as content in their monthly hobby magazine (*cough...overpriced product catalog...cough). Escalation was a ploy to legitimize the huge models they invested money in making for Apocalypse, which no-one ended up buying (Hey, now EVERYONE can use these!). They obviously care nothing for the integrity of the rules or the balance thereof. Every decision they make now is based on maximum short term profit.

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I'm mainly disappointed that these are dataslates not supplements

If they 'blow' their Tyranids time/budget on a few new rules will they find it worth the trouble to put out some more in depth hive fleet background (even if it's reprints from older books)

 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Therion wrote:

To me they almost defeat the purpose of the FOC altogether. It also seems like 40K is moving closer and closer to Apocalypse, where you can field any combination of models from any army in the same force. But I guess GW feels there are more interesting narratives to those triple and quad codex armies than old fashioned mono codex armies. They're pretty much sacrificing every last ounce of integrity and resemblance of balance in the game just to make a few extra bucks.

Make no mistake I approve of the new Tyranids becoming stronger (if in fact that's what will happen), but I just despise the idea of dataslates and multi-allying as a whole.


Indeed the FOC ignoring part is just stupid. It would make much more sense if the units in the formation used slots normally, but once you got the specific combination of units they would get some bonus special rules.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'm mainly disappointed that these are dataslates not supplements

If they 'blow' their Tyranids time/budget on a few new rules will they find it worth the trouble to put out some more in depth hive fleet background (even if it's reprints from older books)

Honestly, I think we're seeing the Dataslates first.

Dataslates are effectively "new" for GW.
I think what we'll see is an actual "supplement" with the Dataslates in them later on. We've seen the backlash from them not having print/physical versions available at the same time as the digital ones. GW doesn't generally take customer feedback seriously--except when it's something "new" for them.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Crimson wrote:
 Therion wrote:

To me they almost defeat the purpose of the FOC altogether. It also seems like 40K is moving closer and closer to Apocalypse, where you can field any combination of models from any army in the same force. But I guess GW feels there are more interesting narratives to those triple and quad codex armies than old fashioned mono codex armies. They're pretty much sacrificing every last ounce of integrity and resemblance of balance in the game just to make a few extra bucks.

Make no mistake I approve of the new Tyranids becoming stronger (if in fact that's what will happen), but I just despise the idea of dataslates and multi-allying as a whole.


Indeed the FOC ignoring part is just stupid. It would make much more sense if the units in the formation used slots normally, but once you got the specific combination of units they would get some bonus special rules.


Or just count as allies the ally slot.
   
Made in us
Helpful Sophotect





Hampshire

So day-one-DLC (virtually) from GW?

I wasn't aware they'd been acquired by EA.

A sucky move to squeeze more cash from their customers, for a "model" company, they sure do charge a lot for rules...
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







It's getting to the point where if I see Marneus Calgar and the Swarmlord in the same unit as a Riptide, I probably won't question its legality.

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

 Oaka wrote:
It's getting to the point where if I see Marneus Calgar and the Swarmlord in the same unit as a Riptide, I probably won't question its legality.

Wow . That's actually too true!



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/15 20:59:59


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




North Carolina

Dataslates must be extremely profitable for GW and will probably be the way forward for releasing new units and rules. I just can't see the hardbound supplements being published anymore considering the lack of releases since Black Legion. I'd even venture to say that they probably wish they could get out of publishing bound books altogether.

When was the last time we saw a PDF FAQ for any codices?

"You're not the best but you're the best we've got."

 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 themonk wrote:
Dataslates must be extremely profitable for GW and will probably be the way forward for releasing new units and rules. I just can't see the hardbound supplements being published anymore considering the lack of releases since Black Legion. I'd even venture to say that they probably wish they could get out of publishing bound books altogether.

When was the last time we saw a PDF FAQ for any codices?


Gah, that's true. It's been a while 0_o

I hope they don't quick read of paper books. I prefer to have a hard copy on hand.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




North Carolina

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 themonk wrote:
Dataslates must be extremely profitable for GW and will probably be the way forward for releasing new units and rules. I just can't see the hardbound supplements being published anymore considering the lack of releases since Black Legion. I'd even venture to say that they probably wish they could get out of publishing bound books altogether.

When was the last time we saw a PDF FAQ for any codices?


Gah, that's true. It's been a while 0_o

I hope they don't quick read of paper books. I prefer to have a hard copy on hand.


Me too! I would buy a bound copy of the Cypher Dataslate just for the incredible artwork and fluff.

"You're not the best but you're the best we've got."

 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






 Oaka wrote:
It's getting to the point where if I see Marneus Calgar and the Swarmlord in the same unit as a Riptide, I probably won't question its legality.


Now now, Tyranids aren't allowed to have options!

But I could see Ghazkul and a Riptide and Calgar attached to Coteaz...

Otherwise, I pray to all the Gods of Chaos that GW would just release an annual compendium of dataslates every year or something. If this is becoming a thing, they could just make a $30 SA size book every december with the last years worth of Dataslates in it, and a few new pieces of art and fluff. You can pick and choose yours digitally if you want it, but it isn't worth printing individual dataslates, so sell them bulk!

Plus, a Hive Fleet Leviathan supplement with Ymgarls...
And a Hive Fleet Naga supplement with the Doom...
And... and... Spores? I will pay $50 for a dataslate with Mycetic spores in it!


 
   
Made in no
Stealthy Grot Snipa





I'm assuming this is a result of stagnant revenue growth.

It won't surprise me if when they publish their annuals that their revenue growth has barely matched inflation again.

"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
- Charlie Chaplain. 
   
Made in us
Using Object Source Lighting





Portland

Wow. Yeah, day 1 DLC ain't my cuppa' tea.

Anyone remember those days when alternate rules were included in the base army lists? Or even when they had cheap mini-dex variant lists?

Well, I strongly believe in paying for stuff that's worth it, and not buying stuff that isn't (or when it's just absurdly overpriced). Maybe it's because I'm old, but I just don't see the value in PDFs with minimal formatting, recycled illustrations, and a couple rules. I've looked at a couple (Cypher and inquisition) and found them embarrassingly low quality for those prices...


My painted armies (40k, WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity...) 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





One of the GW FB replies:

Games Workshop: Digital Editions Hey Paul,
That release will be infiltrating it's way onto eReaders before the end of January, so you won't be waiting to long.

- Eddie

PS: Those Genestealers look ace


Word choice seems intentional.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
[***]







 Oaka wrote:
It's getting to the point where if I see Marneus Calgar and the Swarmlord in the same unit as a Riptide, I probably won't question its legality.


Exalted!

And - sad but true and hilarious, all at the same time!
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




well like a lot of people i was pretty cynical about gw's holding back of cypher rules in order to release them as a data slate. But when it came to release, the content was actually pretty good. Plenty of art work, fluff and rules options, may not have been everyone's cup of tea but to my mind, definitely not a greedy money grab.

So, i'm going to wait and see. Hopefully these new data sheets will have loads of fluff and info that will satiate the fans. If not and it is simply a money grab then meh. I don't play nids so i don't really care, but it would bode ill for the guard release

The plural of codex is codexes.
 
   
 
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