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I'm really confused how any of those initial points are valid. They all have equally valid counter-arguments, as Ferros showed.

 Blacksails wrote:
Where's all the rage against the improper representation of males in the hobby?

I mean, how can I possibly live up to the standards set by a space marine!? Try as I may, but I don't think I'll ever be 7 feet and a few hundred pounds of rippling muscle mass.

Not to mention those highly desired redundant organs

But in all honesty, there is glorification of the male physique in this game, too. It is all over the top, just as the setting is. Everything is to be taken with a grain (or small heap) of salt

When I grew up in Norway boys and girls used to play together. When we grew up we treat each other as equals. Yet there is on a global scale very few girls who play warhammer.

If we flip the sexisem question on it's head we can talk about people you can identify with:

Pick a character from 40K with your gender that you can identify with. If you are a male you can do this. If you are a female you can not do this. And I am talking about the tabletop game here. If you need to read a novel to find one, then that is not part of the game, that is just part of multi media representation of the fictional setting.

 Niiai wrote:
When I grew up in Norway boys and girls used to play together. When we grew up we treat each other as equals. Yet there is on a global scale very few girls who play warhammer.

If we flip the sexisem question on it's head we can talk about people you can identify with:

Pick a character from 40K with your gender that you can identify with. If you are a male you can do this. If you are a female you can not do this. And I am talking about the tabletop game here. If you need to read a novel to find one, then that is not part of the game, that is just part of multi media representation of the fictional setting.

...And that is still not sexist. That is indicative of a lack of diversity, not sexism. You sure have some weird ideas.

 Niiai wrote:
When I grew up in Norway boys and girls used to play together. When we grew up we treat each other as equals. Yet there is on a global scale very few girls who play warhammer.

If we flip the sexisem question on it's head we can talk about people you can identify with:

Pick a character from 40K with your gender that you can identify with. If you are a male you can do this. If you are a female you can not do this. And I am talking about the tabletop game here. If you need to read a novel to find one, then that is not part of the game, that is just part of multi media representation of the fictional setting.

Genderwise, yes, I can agree that women are underrepresented in 40k. However, they do manage to have diverse characters in their setting, and include a lot of ethnic groups (even if some are stereotypes). Would I like to see more respectable female models and characters? Of course, but I can see the reasons why it isn't so.

Let's use your relating example. This is a wargame setting created (at least mostly) by men, for play with likeminded people - mostly other men/males. See a pattern? It's because the designers can relate more easily with male characters that a lot of factions have a vast majority, if not all, of their characters male.

Also, the tabletop characters only have any depth due to any fluff that has been written for them in their codex or in other publications. You can't relate to a character if you know nothing about them, so where would you get this knowledge?

I'm not sure if it's been said or not, bit war has historically been the folly of men, so it would make sense for the creators of 40k to stick to what they know.

ted234521 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
When I grew up in Norway boys and girls used to play together. When we grew up we treat each other as equals. Yet there is on a global scale very few girls who play warhammer.

If we flip the sexisem question on it's head we can talk about people you can identify with:

Pick a character from 40K with your gender that you can identify with. If you are a male you can do this. If you are a female you can not do this. And I am talking about the tabletop game here. If you need to read a novel to find one, then that is not part of the game, that is just part of multi media representation of the fictional setting.

...And that is still not sexist. That is indicative of a lack of diversity, not sexism. You sure have some weird ideas.

Girls don't like violent movies or video games for the most part. Clearly that makes them sexist, too!

 Blacksails wrote:
Where's all the rage against the improper representation of males in the hobby?

I mean, how can I possibly live up to the standards set by a space marine!? Try as I may, but I don't think I'll ever be 7 feet and a few hundred pounds of rippling muscle mass.

Hell I'll never be a catachan. Or a cadian. Or a DKoK. or any "normal" 40k human.

Are your feelings hurt Blacksails and Bronzefist? It does not really matter because last time I checked we did have a well over 95% representation of male warhammer players. I do not think they feel neglected.

And do not tell me that the warhammer armies are not filled with cool male charcaters you can identfy with and want to add to your army:

Wanne be a lone warrior who fights for what he belives in? Play using Commander Farsight.
Wanne be a brawly warrior who stands up for the little person? Use Space Wolf Logan Grimnar.
Wanne be an am emperor of alien unknown? Tyranid hive tyrant
Wanne be noble? Play as an ultra marine.
Foul? Any or warboss.

Female characters choises within the codex:
The female xenos inqistor: Pretty cool laura croft like.
Comander shadow sun seems good as well.

An eldar farseer if you are good with greenstuff.
Then we have the tyranid tervigon. Not really an option.
Sister of battle who will not chastise themselfs because they vane be pure for the god emperor.
Oh, and we also have laidy malys: Who wants revenge on her x.

I am not seeing a gender diversity here. When it comes to computer games studies show that it is an even 50/50 division on the sexes. I know a lot of girls who play first peson shooters and horror games an other games that can be considered grimm and dark. Yet I know only two girls who used to play Gw some years ago.

Warhammer is doing it wrong.

 Niiai wrote:
Are your feelings hurt Blacksails and Bronzefist? It does not really matter because last time I checked we did have a well over 95% representation of male warhammer players. I do not think they feel neglected.

And do not tell me that the warhammer armies are not filled with cool male charcaters you can identfy with and want to add to your army:

Wanne be a lone warrior who fights for what he belives in? Play using Commander Farsight.
Wanne be a brawly warrior who stands up for the little person? Use Space Wolf Logan Grimnar.
Wanne be an am emperor of alien unknown? Tyranid hive tyrant
Wanne be noble? Play as an ultra marine.
Foul? Any or warboss.

Female characters choises within the codex:
The female xenos inqistor: Pretty cool laura croft like.
Comander shadow sun seems good as well.

An eldar farseer if you are good with greenstuff.
Then we have the tyranid tervigon. Not really an option.
Sister of battle who will not chastise themselfs because they vane be pure for the god emperor.
Oh, and we also have laidy malys: Who wants revenge on her x.

I am not seeing a gender diversity here. When it comes to computer games studies show that it is an even 50/50 division on the sexes. I know a lot of girls who play first peson shooters and horror games an other games that can be considered grimm and dark. Yet I know only two girls who used to play Gw some years ago.

Warhammer is doing it wrong.

There's sexism then there is gender diversity. Those two can fall into the same category but are largely separate. And yeah there needs to be more gender diversity in the game itself.

 Niiai wrote:
Are your feelings hurt Blacksails and Bronzefist? It does not really matter because last time I checked we did have a well over 95% representation of male warhammer players. I do not think they feel neglected.

And do not tell me that the warhammer armies are not filled with cool male charcaters you can identfy with and want to add to your army:

Wanne be a lone warrior who fights for what he belives in? Play using Commander Farsight.
Wanne be a brawly warrior who stands up for the little person? Use Space Wolf Logan Grimnar.
Wanne be an am emperor of alien unknown? Tyranid hive tyrant
Wanne be noble? Play as an ultra marine.
Foul? Any or warboss.

Female characters choises within the codex:
The female xenos inqistor: Pretty cool laura croft like.
Comander shadow sun seems good as well.

An eldar farseer if you are good with greenstuff.
Then we have the tyranid tervigon. Not really an option.
Sister of battle who will not chastise themselfs because they vane be pure for the god emperor.
Oh, and we also have laidy malys: Who wants revenge on her x.

I am not seeing a gender diversity here. When it comes to computer games studies show that it is an even 50/50 division on the sexes. I know a lot of girls who play first peson shooters and horror games an other games that can be considered grimm and dark. Yet I know only two girls who used to play Gw some years ago.

Warhammer is doing it wrong.

You are perceiving problems where none exist. Seriously, this isn't a big deal. Nobody is surprised about the lack of females in tabletop gaming. Not sure if you are White Knighting right now or what, but this is getting all a bit silly I think.

The only thing I agree with here is that the IG need more women. There are some, the Gaunts Ghosts models: Nessa, Benda, and Muril, then the Commissar. There are a vast amount of women fighters in the US army today, a few are friends of mine, and the military has now opened the special forces up for women. So although it is the year 40000, I still think there would be woman to fight in it. When orks invade out planet women will pick up weapons too .

Females have played video games for a long time, that is why there are so many women characters in video games. A fresh one on my mind is the Lt. in the new Space Marine game. Lots of girls play Call of Duty, I can't think of one that the main character is a woman that they can relate too. In my opinion, building and painting models has always been and always will be a mans thing. When building a model airplane or boat, a female is not going to be turned on/off of it because the pilot is a man of woman, no, if you want to build and paint, you're going to build and paint. Adding more woman models into the game is not going to magicly change girls minds about Warhammer and have a huge flock of girls start buying and playing it. Most people don't give a about the gender of the model or army, they do it because they enjoy building, or painting, or the fluff, or the friends they are involved with.

I know of woman that like old cars and rebuilding them. But we are not going to get more woman into restoring old cars by bolting a rubber to the back of the car. Its one of those things that you do because it interests you.

 Niiai wrote:
When I grew up in Norway boys and girls used to play together. When we grew up we treat each other as equals. Yet there is on a global scale very few girls who play warhammer.

If we flip the sexisem question on it's head we can talk about people you can identify with:

Pick a character from 40K with your gender that you can identify with. If you are a male you can do this. If you are a female you can not do this. And I am talking about the tabletop game here. If you need to read a novel to find one, then that is not part of the game, that is just part of multi media representation of the fictional setting.

I'm a male and I can't. They're all just a bunch of bigoted, insane, jerkfacey jerkfaces.

I am not seeing a gender diversity here. When it comes to computer games studies show that it is an even 50/50 division on the sexes. I know a lot of girls who play first peson shooters and horror games an other games that can be considered grimm and dark. Yet I know only two girls who used to play Gw some years ago.

Warhammer is doing it wrong.

Wow, first it was about sexism, and once that was shot down, suddenly you're all for gender diversity? You're like one of those goddamned 10 year old "Facebook activists" who know neither what or anything about the things they are "fighting for".

Girls don't like violent movies or video games for the most part. Clearly that makes them sexist, too!

And there you go. By applying your logic, someone managed to make you look like a complete idiot. Good job.

EDIT: You know, I'm being rather caustic here, and to be honest I don't care. What you're saying is completely wrong on so many levels and you simply fail to see it.

ted234521 wrote:

I am not seeing a gender diversity here. When it comes to computer games studies show that it is an even 50/50 division on the sexes. I know a lot of girls who play first peson shooters and horror games an other games that can be considered grimm and dark. Yet I know only two girls who used to play Gw some years ago.

Warhammer is doing it wrong.

Wow, first it was about sexism, and once that was shot down, suddenly you're all for gender diversity? You're like one of those goddamned 10 year old "Facebook activists" who know neither what or anything about the things they are "fighting for".

Girls don't like violent movies or video games for the most part. Clearly that makes them sexist, too!

And there you go. By applying your logic, someone managed to make you look like a complete idiot. Good job.

EDIT: You know, I'm being rather caustic here, and to be honest I don't care. What you're saying is completely wrong on so many levels and you simply fail to see it.

+1 right here

 l000babyseals wrote:

ted234521 wrote:

I am not seeing a gender diversity here. When it comes to computer games studies show that it is an even 50/50 division on the sexes. I know a lot of girls who play first peson shooters and horror games an other games that can be considered grimm and dark. Yet I know only two girls who used to play Gw some years ago.

Warhammer is doing it wrong.

Wow, first it was about sexism, and once that was shot down, suddenly you're all for gender diversity? You're like one of those goddamned 10 year old "Facebook activists" who know neither what or anything about the things they are "fighting for".

Girls don't like violent movies or video games for the most part. Clearly that makes them sexist, too!

And there you go. By applying your logic, someone managed to make you look like a complete idiot. Good job.

EDIT: You know, I'm being rather caustic here, and to be honest I don't care. What you're saying is completely wrong on so many levels and you simply fail to see it.

+1 right here

This argument had some potential but spiraled in so many different random directions (Sexism to gender diversity and how that is killing GW?) it lost all meaning.

 Niiai wrote:

And do not tell me that the warhammer armies are not filled with cool male charcaters you can identfy with and want to add to your army:
Wanne be an am emperor of alien unknown? Tyranid hive tyrant

Female characters choises within the codex:
Then we have the tyranid tervigon. Not really an option.

Why is it an option for a male player to identify with a Hive Tyrant but not an option for a female player to do so with the Tervigon?

Seriously I rolled my eyes when I saw the title of this thread. Watching the OP change his argument post to post following each rebuttal has been amusing though.

Seriously I rolled my eyes when I saw the title of this thread. Watching the OP change his argument post to post following each rebuttal has been amusing though

Yep, if his hilarious "logic" wasn't enough, he pretends to be arguing something else entirely the minute his argument is countered. Agh.

Yay! This thread is just as useless as this comment!

Body-shaming a woman because she chooses to dress in a sexually-provocative manner, however, is [sexist]

Oh man so much burn because I would wish the game was better. Admitting that warhammer might have a problem does not mean that you should not enjoy your game.

I will try to adress what I mean better, although I doubt I will persuade the more aberant of you. I do however appreciate the discusion even if the remarks does not really have me convinced.

Warhammer is a game about empoverment. They present you as the commander of an empovered army witch you pich against another empovered army. All of this empowerment is for males only, all this enpowerment is only for males, no female empowerment is representet. I feel this is sexist and discrimenating.

The most representet women in this game is done through chaos daemons, dark eldar and sister of battles.

Demons does this through demonets. These are based upon the seductress, female who wield power through their ability to seduce men. This plays into clasic tropes that wimen need to offer sex for power and that their only power is through the medium of a man.

We have the dark eldar witch has a good range of female models in both the wytch and kabalite department. However, most of the wych model are female, the wytches provide entertainment. Most of the kabalite models are male, the kabalite provides mafia and politics. All of the wyches wear skimpy body suits. This is refreshing to see on the males, but when females do this it is just a re-representation of more skimpy clad models. Games Workshop seem to continue to do this, someone pointed out the pin up commissar earlier. Things like this is a problem when it is a pattern of sexulasation of women and a BIG amout of the female models in the game are doing this. Yes that is a problem.

And we have the sisters of battle. I feel I have already covered the skinny clad wimen in the section above. As for the regular sisters they are a mix up of clasic female tropes. We have the castice nun who will not foul themselves and be married and clean in the eyes of the good. A very submissive adetude. Of course then you mix this with the imadge of a female cult who seem to hate everyone. Sisters of battle generaly seem little apreciated by everyone. They are more pure then regular people, fanatic and general the queen bitch faction of the setting.

I do not think any of those other three have good representation of woman and are sexist. But where are the rest of the women?

Orks are all gender neutral. Yet all their names are "boyz" and they are always represented as super masculine and rugged.

Necrons are suposebly gender neutral? I supose there where female and male necrotyn originally? However they are all represented in the same way: Based of arnold swatchnegers masculine 80's icon Terminator.

Tyranids also makes no sence talking about gender, yet it does. The hyve tyrant is refered to as male for the most part. Harpy and Crone are both female names so this is good. However the borm queen is caled the dominatrix, again warhammer refering to females as sexist. Also we have a model that births babies. I would generaly not mind, but with the bad representation of females in the game it stand out as sore thumbs.

Space marines are super masculine and do not have females. I understand that it made sence when they where made to make them "male only" as there where diferent oppinions on gender at that time. It makes no sense to go back and change that since they are so defining of the setting. It would be bad for Gw to change them. ted234521 pointed out that discriminate males. I supose you are right on some part, but it is not really discriminating? A lot of people like them. They are a hyber bole of a fantasy warrrior. They are a big boy scouts club with insignias and macho adetude. And they are not the only represensation of males in the setting. I think tau, eldar and dark eldar have a lot more options for you to choose from. Females who play only have those same options.

Eldars have females. Yet very few models are female. Look through the model range. How many female farseers, aspect warriors or guardians can you see? If the eldars had as many female models as the dark eldar range things would be better. Eldars do not come as part of a culth of pleasure as default, this would be good.

The Tau and Kroot I do not know properly. I do think there are some Tau females? And the kroot seem the more gender neutral of the aliens.

I pointed out some induvidual models that where good, the inquisitor females and the tau model. Those are good.

As for human females? There are no female chaos cultists, it should be some of those. Why are there no females in the imperial guard? Ferros pointed out that the warhammer humans setting needs their women as birthing machines to make more and better soldiers. I do not think this is true. I also think this often represent attitudes that can be projected onto the people playing the game. It comes with the territory of the setting. (Not necessarily the people playing.)

Those where my opinion on how the female gender is representet within the setting. And while all of this can be defended within the fictional setting I do not think I can defend the setting if I was to justefy it to a female players. I work in a shop where we sell a lot of things, among the games workshop products. I always have trouble when girls ask me if I can help them find an army with female models in them.

Blacksails mentioned that he does not feel represented by the males in this setting. I find that hard to belive. He does not get a feeling of empowerment from having a good army? He does not think that any of the male models (most of them) are interesting characters? In any of the factions? They are over the top, but they are there.

Ferros I do not think your counter arguments are any good.

Spakadia what do you mean girls do not like violent video games? They do. Although girls a very badly represented in video games as well.

Bronzefist this is not killing GW. But I would think they would be better of if they did not write of 50% of the marked firsthand. If more women played GW more males would also come as it was no longer a "sausage party".

Opera you say I am sexist because I "Body-shaming a woman because she chooses to dress in a sexually-provocative manner". That would be sexist I agree. However, I am body-shaming a company that repetativaly print out representations of woman as one who must dress in a sexually-provocative manner. Caling them on that is not sexist, it is feminist. A femenist is for equal treatment of the gender. Also, all the sisters of battle wear this "boob armour". If anybody would make armour for wimen they would not make it like that. It incteases the chances of deying as opposed to just having a flatter chest. It makes no sence. It is there to enforce that these models have boobs.

Ferros also do not seem to understand what I mean when I say that the sisters of battle behave like men. They wear "poer armour", they have the same stat "BS4" "WS4" because they are though like space marines, but they are human "T3" "S3". The othe represensation of a woman in warhammer that does not take on the role of the seductres only gets tolerated becaused she acts like a boy. The boy here being the space marine. Sisters of battles play like space marines wane be with bolters, bs 4 and power armour. They do not go against the male norm in any way.

I did try to respond to some of the criticism you had on my opinion here. This subject is rather broad and you all seem to take pot shots at me so the awser became quite long. This of course I would tink lead to the "too long, did not read", but I am hopefull. I would like to get your oponion on this, but for the most part you seem to want to discredit my credabilaty and saying how nonsence this is instead of adressing my arguments. Am I that wrong?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ted234521 wrote:

I am not seeing a gender diversity here. When it comes to computer games studies show that it is an even 50/50 division on the sexes. I know a lot of girls who play first peson shooters and horror games an other games that can be considered grimm and dark. Yet I know only two girls who used to play Gw some years ago.

Warhammer is doing it wrong.

Wow, first it was about sexism, and once that was shot down, suddenly you're all for gender diversity? You're like one of those goddamned 10 year old "Facebook activists" who know neither what or anything about the things they are "fighting for".

Girls don't like violent movies or video games for the most part. Clearly that makes them sexist, too!

And there you go. By applying your logic, someone managed to make you look like a complete idiot. Good job.



EDIT: You know, I'm being rather caustic here, and to be honest I don't care. What you're saying is completely wrong on so many levels and you simply fail to see it.

Ted: why do you edit your post so it seems to people reading it like I am saying that girls don't like violent movies or video games? I know first hand they do both from anecdotal evidence and from research statistics.When you first cite me, coment on it, and the cite somone I do not agree with and use the argument that I am an idiot you are putting words in my mouth. That is confusing to people and foul play.

 Niiai wrote:

And do not tell me that the warhammer armies are not filled with cool male charcaters you can identfy with and want to add to your army:
Wanne be an am emperor of alien unknown? Tyranid hive tyrant.

Personally, I find the males of 40k to be rather... repulsive.

Most of the male human (and humanoid) characters look well past their forties. Most of them have had their facial features scarred or horribly deformed, quite a lot are missing limbs, others have had their body parts replaced by hideous biomechanicals, their exaggerated masculinity offset by a host of dehumanizing features. Phisical attributes aside, almost every male character in this universe is a pawn to either a slavering religious bureaucracy or to alien forces beyond their comprehension. In the end, they are utterly powerless.

40k takes 1980s comic book machismo and takes it to its most extreme, to a point where it becomes uncomfortable, oppressive and inhuman. It is an ugly setting that revels in its own ugliness, populated by angry old men consumed by rage, hate and bloodlust, slaves to forces beyond their grasp. Accordingly, women in 40k are not doe-eyed cutesies torn between their duties as a soldier and a mother, but creatures as monstrous as their male counterparts.

I can be shocked, horrified and fascinated by this grand guignol and its cast of nightmarish characters, but I certainly can't identify with any of them.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

 Niiai wrote:

And do not tell me that the warhammer armies are not filled with cool male charcaters you can identfy with and want to add to your army:
Wanne be an am emperor of alien unknown? Tyranid hive tyrant.

Personally, I find the males of 40k to be rather... repulsive.

Most of the male human (and humanoid) characters look well past their forties. Most of them have had their facial features scarred or horribly deformed, quite a lot are missing limbs, others have had their body parts replaced by hideous biomechanicals, their exaggerated masculinity offset by a host of dehumanizing features. Phisical attributes aside, almost every male character in this universe is a pawn to either a slavering religious bureaucracy or to alien forces beyond their comprehension. In the end, they are utterly powerless.

40k takes 1980s comic book machismo and takes it to its most extreme, to a point where it becomes uncomfortable, oppressive and inhuman. It is an ugly setting that revels in its own ugliness, populated by angry old men consumed by rage, hate and bloodlust, slaves to forces beyond their grasp. Accordingly, women in 40k are not doe-eyed cutesies torn between their duties as a soldier and a mother, but creatures as monstrous as their male counterparts.

I can be shocked, horrified and fascinated by this grand guignol and its cast of nightmarish characters, but I certainly can't identify with any of them.

Very true. The Male characters are completely un relatable but are still interesting.

 Niiai wrote:
Are your feelings hurt Blacksails and Bronzefist? It does not really matter because last time I checked we did have a well over 95% representation of male warhammer players. I do not think they feel neglected.

And do not tell me that the warhammer armies are not filled with cool male charcaters you can identfy with and want to add to your army:

Wanne be a lone warrior who fights for what he belives in? Play using Commander Farsight.
Wanne be a brawly warrior who stands up for the little person? Use Space Wolf Logan Grimnar.
Wanne be an am emperor of alien unknown? Tyranid hive tyrant
Wanne be noble? Play as an ultra marine.
Foul? Any or warboss.

Female characters choises within the codex:
The female xenos inqistor: Pretty cool laura croft like.
Comander shadow sun seems good as well.

An eldar farseer if you are good with greenstuff.
Then we have the tyranid tervigon. Not really an option.
Sister of battle who will not chastise themselfs because they vane be pure for the god emperor.
Oh, and we also have laidy malys: Who wants revenge on her x.

I am not seeing a gender diversity here. When it comes to computer games studies show that it is an even 50/50 division on the sexes. I know a lot of girls who play first peson shooters and horror games an other games that can be considered grimm and dark. Yet I know only two girls who used to play Gw some years ago.

Warhammer is doing it wrong.

You're forgetting that about half the Tau FW are females as well. Also just because the models don't have boobs doesn't mean they're not women (e.g. Farseer).

+50% of all vehicle cmds that are from cadia are women . IG tank company based around cadian regiments are the second or third most feminized army in w40k.

Phisical attributes aside, almost every male character in this universe is a pawn to either a slavering religious bureaucracy

Since when is being part of a structure not empowering ? It is being outside of one or being part of a weaker one robs one of power

 Blacksails wrote:
Where's all the rage against the improper representation of males in the hobby?

I mean, how can I possibly live up to the standards set by a space marine!? Try as I may, but I don't think I'll ever be 7 feet and a few hundred pounds of rippling muscle mass.

Better hit the gym, get you some serious steroids. Maybe some of that WeightGain 9000....
Beefcake! BEEFCAKE!!!!

Also... the Xenan Free Legions were an all-female IG line, now OOP.
The Necromundan gangs were just about 50/50 split between male and female models.
The DCA is a female model (one of them is, anyway).
The recruitment rate on Cadia, it is noted, is synonymous with its birth-rate. This would indicate that the Cadian regiments are 50% female.

Wanne be noble? Play as an ultra marine.

Or an Inquisitor of either gender leading a Ordo Hereticus force combining the Sisters of Battle, an IG Regiment, and the Sons of Dorn.

Wanne be a brawly warrior who stands up for the little person

Or a Sister Celestine.

Foul?

Or a Radical Inquisitor of either gender leading the forces of the Ordo Malleus against another Daemonic threat.

I am not seeing a gender diversity here. When it comes to computer games studies show that it is an even 50/50 division on the sexes. I know a lot of girls who play first peson shooters and horror games an other games that can be considered grimm and dark. Yet I know only two girls who used to play Gw some years ago.

Warhammer is doing it wrong.

This is a completely different argument than you made in your OP. This is a comment against GW, not against a specific model (or group of models).

... the claim that the way all women shout is whiny is still overtly sexist, though.

The most representet women in this game is done through chaos daemons, dark eldar and sister of battles

Or Imperial Guardsmen if you want to spend the time collecting the models.

Demons does this through demonets. These are based upon the seductress, female who wield power through their ability to seduce men. This plays into clasic tropes that wimen need to offer sex for power and that their only power is through the medium of a man.

The Keeper of Secrets is the "male" version of the Daemonette. Go check out the modeling blogs that have them with their wangs out.
Incidentally... Daemonettes, being Daemons, can change how they appear. They could be one-breasted, crab-clawed figures sporting a six-foot prehensile dick with a flaming skull on the end of it if they wanted to. There is no true male/female in Daemons.

And we have the sisters of battle. I feel I have already covered the skinny clad wimen in the section above. As for the regular sisters they are a mix up of clasic female tropes. We have the castice nun who will not foul themselves and be married and clean in the eyes of the good. A very submissive adetude. Of course then you mix this with the imadge of a female cult who seem to hate everyone. Sisters of battle generaly seem little apreciated by everyone. They are more pure then regular people, fanatic and general the queen bitch faction of the setting.

All of the Sisters of Battle are chaste and celibate. This is because they're nuns. They're also hard-as-nails soldiers and the equal to the Space Marines, without all the fancy biotech. They are, indeed, more pure than regular people. They are, indeed, more fanatical than regular people. Their faith, and their kung-fu, is stronger than yours. And they can be, indeed, the "Queen Bitch" faction of the setting. That's why I love the Sisters of Battle.

Tyranids also makes no sence talking about gender, yet it does. The hyve tyrant is refered to as male for the most part. Harpy and Crone are both female names so this is good. However the borm queen is caled the dominatrix, again warhammer refering to females as sexist. Also we have a model that births babies. I would generaly not mind, but with the bad representation of females in the game it stand out as sore thumbs.

These are in-universe names given to them by the ignorant members of the Magos Biologis and the Departmento Munitorum. Also, "he" is the default pronoun in the English language. We never refer to an intelligent being as "it" unless we want to make it sound like an object (which, when you're talking about other humans, is offensive). So "he" is used in the place where gender is either unknown or irrelevant. This is changing in modern parlance, but is still the "standard". So all of these other Tyranid creatures being referred to as "he", including the Doom of Malantai, Old One Eye, the Red Terror, and so on... "he" is just a default pronoun, because English doesn't have "neutral/neuter" versions of nouns and verbs. It's not establishing that the model/troop is specifically male (as the Imperium sure wouldn't know), it's just the writing style of the English language.

Eldars have females. Yet very few models are female. Look through the model range. How many female farseers, aspect warriors or guardians can you see? If the eldars had as many female models as the dark eldar range things would be better. Eldars do not come as part of a culth of pleasure as default, this would be good.

This, again, is a different argument than you were making in your OP. Is the lack of more Farseer models, female Guardians, etc. indicative of sexist models? No. It is indicative of GW being lazy. We would need to know more about GW's design process to say whether or not GW is sexist as a company. For example, the lack of female Aspect Warriors could be explained as a reverse of the male Banshees... or we could learn that GW Corporate said "no, don't make female Aspect Warrior models, they never sell, girls don't play this game!". That would be sexist. It is, afaik, also untrue (in that GW Corporate has never said or even intimated such a thing, to my knowledge).

As for human females? There are no female chaos cultists, it should be some of those. Why are there no females in the imperial guard? Ferros pointed out that the warhammer humans setting needs their women as birthing machines to make more and better soldiers. I do not think this is true. I also think this often represent attitudes that can be projected onto the people playing the game. It comes with the territory of the setting. (Not necessarily the people playing.)

There have been female IG models. They are just not widely available. You can still find them on eBay and Amazon and such sometimes. Again, this is not signs of sexist models, but GW being lazy. We would need actual evidence, as I said above, to claim sexism on the part of GW.

Also, all the sisters of battle wear this "boob armour". If anybody would make armour for wimen they would not make it like that. It incteases the chances of deying as opposed to just having a flatter chest. It makes no sence. It is there to enforce that these models have boobs.

The corsets worn by the SoB is a reference to the arch-gothic look of the Victorian era, and in-universe is due to the Decree Passive, which states the Ecclesiarchy can have "no men under arms", following the Age of Apostasy. Yes, it is there to enforce the idea that these soldiers have boobs. That is true in-universe as well. However, it also looks damn good, and sets the SoB apart from the SM as Power Armor troops go. It captures that feel of a Gothic Cathedral, except as soldiers of war.

ey wear "poer armour", they have the same stat "BS4" "WS4" because they are though like space marines, but they are human "T3" "S3". The othe represensation of a woman in warhammer that does not take on the role of the seductres only gets tolerated becaused she acts like a boy. The boy here being the space marine. Sisters of battles play like space marines wane be with bolters, bs 4 and power armour. They do not go against the male norm in any way.

Or maybe Space Marines are trying to act like girls? I mean, their stats are almost the same as the Sisters of Battle.
This is a problem with the mechanics of the game, not the gender of the models. When the game is based on a d6, there aren't many unit stats you can work with.

 Niiai wrote:
Pick a character from 40K with your gender that you can identify with. If you are a male you can do this. If you are a female you can not do this.

Uh, why not? Why can't a person identify with a character who is the opposite gender to them? Gender doesn't define a person.

 Niiai wrote:
Wanne be a lone warrior who fights for what he belives in? Play using Commander Farsight.
Wanne be a brawly warrior who stands up for the little person? Use Space Wolf Logan Grimnar.
Wanne be an am emperor of alien unknown? Tyranid hive tyrant
Wanne be noble? Play as an ultra marine.
Foul? Any or warboss.

Female characters choises within the codex:
The female xenos inqistor: Pretty cool laura croft like.
Comander shadow sun seems good as well.

An eldar farseer if you are good with greenstuff.
Then we have the tyranid tervigon. Not really an option.
Sister of battle who will not chastise themselfs because they vane be pure for the god emperor.
Oh, and we also have laidy malys: Who wants revenge on her x.

This is cherry-picking. You've only said positive things about the male characters and then said negative things about some of the female characters.

And, really, I don't understand this fixation on SoB being celibite. They're religious extremists, abstaining from physical pleasures fits in with that.

 Niiai wrote:
And we have the sisters of battle. I feel I have already covered the skinny clad wimen in the section above.

No, see, just being scantily clad isn't sexism in itself. That's over-simplyifying it. GW didn't make the Repentia just because they wanted sex appeal, they made them with their fluff in mind. Crazed religious zealots desperately seeking redemption. We see this fluff reflected on the models themselves, with their covered faces and chains around them. They're not being pitched as sex objects, but fanatics.

 Niiai wrote:
We have the castice nun who will not foul themselves and be married and clean in the eyes of the good. A very submissive adetude.

So... they're bad representations of women because they don't have sex and don't get married? Is that what you're saying? And, again, they're zealots. That's more important than their being women.

 Niiai wrote:
Sisters of battle generaly seem little apreciated by everyone.

Any faithful in the Imperium would like the Sisters, since they're the soldiers of the church. And most IG or SM the SoB fought alongside would also have respect for them.

 Niiai wrote:
and general the queen bitch faction of the setting.

Lovely. So female characters who are dedicated to a cause and don't care about making friends are "bitches"? That's not really a good nor thought-out assessment of the SoB.

 Niiai wrote:
I do not think I can defend the setting if I was to justefy it to a female players. I work in a shop where we sell a lot of things, among the games workshop products. I always have trouble when girls ask me if I can help them find an army with female models in them.

You may be generalising just a bit, here. Plenty of women enjoy 40K, and many of them don't have to play using female models to do so. Female players aren't all the same, you know!

Also, I find it interesting that you seem to think that males must enjoy male characters and females must enjoy female characters. This isn't the case at all.

 Niiai wrote:
The othe represensation of a woman in warhammer that does not take on the role of the seductres only gets tolerated becaused she acts like a boy. The boy here being the space marine.

Again, why does being a tough, elite soldier have to be an exclusively male thing? You're essentially saying that only men should behave in such a way, which strikes me as quite sexist.

However, I will note that 40K could indeed use some more female representation, since some players (of any gender) might want to use female models, and it'd better represent how diverse some of the factions are. Though I don't really agree with your assessment of some of the current female characters, nor some of your logic.

NILai you started out claiming GW is sexist but you're starting to come off as being sexist yourself (No boobs= Not Female? being celibite is bad?).

Ok i think its enough. He had good intentions but it came off wrong. Let it go guys

I am not saying that females can not enjoy a male main character, but when it becomes the norm it becomes a problem. When girls on several occasions have asked me if I can help them choose a warhammer army for them to play that contains female characters they can choose between wood elves and high elves. My anecdotal experience with these requests is that they do not like to be forced into playing dark elves or sisters of battle, neather are very good representation of women. The eldars have females, but besides the banshee we do not find female models. Banzaimash pointed out that some of the tau are female, but this does not really help if it is not shown.

And you do not think that the sisters of battle are represented as the most zealus of the imperial factions. They are always represented blaming every one else as heretics, seing things in black and white and have the settings role as always playing by the books, especial when this leads to exesive force upon people who might be innocent. I do not count them as a good female representative.

I am not saying that plenty of women are enjoying 40K, I am just saying that very few are. There is a difference there, and the difference is that the women who enjoy 40K does so despite it being a very woman unrepresentative setting. What good representative female factions or characters are there in the setting that eater gender can enjoy?

Bronzefists42 do you not think it is a problem that the only way you know they are females is because they have boobs on the armour? How else do the game do it? 40K is made by boys for boys. Girls are welcome, but they can't have their own toys. Just a gendere representative faction would be good.

I am not saying being celibate is bad, I am saying it is not representative that the "woman faction" in warhammer are only celibate. That is just wrong. It could be an interesting faction if there where other women to choose from but for now they are the "girl we allow because she is a tomboy" faction in the setting.

There is no such thing as innocence, merely degrees of guilt.