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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Does Swallow portray them correctly, btw? I haven't read his book yet, so I don't really know.

They're the best portrayals I've seen of Sisters of Battle. Fire and Faith and Hammer and Anvil are as good as it gets for the poor SOB. (though the canoness dueling the Necron Lord was pretty neat.

Alright, so, I'm going to debunk one more argument, then rehash my issue with your post from a clean-slate viewpoint as if all you originally said was "too many males, not enough females, and I didn't actually say that thing about women being whiny."

Because for all of the aggression you're getting in this thread, I have a feeling a lot of it is due to English being a secondary language and that there's a good deal of miscommunication here. (No offense. I learned two languages awhile ago and can't speak either to save my life.)

 Niiai wrote:
BewareofTom I have already covered that. Making female space marine cannon would be a to radical change in the setting I relive. (Although there is little justification for it to begin with it is established cannon by now.)

Doesn't work that way, nor should it. I could say from an actual scientific standpoint (men and women deal with hormones differently. So much of their implants wouldn't function as well. Also: Unnecessary organs and weaknesses via ovaries, mammaries, etc. It's unknown if the penis or testis exist post-transformation, but that's such a small piece of the total individual).
From an actual fluff perspective it's also pretty obvious. Particularly when Horus' fall is pretty close to the Heaven-Hell allegory. So even the Primarchs would, by virtue of setting and inspiration, remain male.

What would be good solutions would simply be to print more female models that are not sexist (DE wytches and chaos demonets) or zealus fanatics (SoB). A good start would beare based off

This is difficult, since as has already been pointed out, sexually provocative clothing is not necessarily sexist. Should I assume the Catachans with rippling, exposed muscles are sexist against men? No. In some part it fits setting (Wearing little clothing in an arena for Dark Eldar is both a show of bravado and entertainment, repentia are based off self-flagellants (Yep, that's where THOSE models also come from!) in the middle ages and both wore little clothing since they just whipped themselves all damn day.

Female tau heads.
A big increase in female eldars.
Female imperial guards.

No real problem here - except Eldar. They have more female models than most.

I am a bit unsure how you could in-corporate females or femininity into the alien factions. The only one in my opinion witch is represented very neutral is the Kroot and Vespides.

What's with the un-necessary need to make everything female, even factions you can't differentiate between sexes? It's like you're trying to force "females" into every faction without even considering if there's males in the first place, or if it makes sense.

Orks are represented masculine and I feel like marines they should stay that way. (I do not know what you think?)

Orks have absolutely no reason to have any female characteristics whatsoever, so, I agree.

Tyranids could do with some femeninaty on some of the models, but at least the harpy and crone are femenine names.

No, they really couldn't. They're bugs. Applying an anthromorphic feminine to their models is a ludicrous idea.

The necrons could do very well with some femenine models. especialy in the lord of cryptect department, but for starters I would focus on Tau, Eldar and Imperial Guard.

Why would they make female models. An Overseer I could maybe see, but everything else is purpose-built. Why add breasts to your mindless slave-warriors? Literally the only models with any viability for feminine traits are the Lords or Crypteks. Even then, Crypteks are pretty gender neutral. You're pretty much saying "add breasts to robots because" and I find that pretty difficult to swallow.


The problem is that men evolved for fighting. If you've taken anthropology courses you've probably gotten glimpses of this. Better spacial perception, increased androgen receptor sensitivity/density, increased muscle mass, larger waist/smaller hips, higher hand-grip strength, denser bones and stronger ligaments/tendons, ~50% greater lung volume, larger hearts and blood cell count, higher clotting factors, thicker skin, greater pain tolerance (Yep have to go through child birth AND feel more pain? Damn nature, you scary.)

The male sex is intended to fight and fight and much greater efficiency. They are, naturally, in all areas involving physical duress and capability naturally superior to women. I am not being facetious of sexist, this is the basic premise behind sexual dimorphism in nearly every sepcies - you evolve for your given task. In most cases, the responsibility of fighting (for women, territory, or resources), securing food, and combatting threats is the man's duty. This is why men are traditionally fighters and why women are typically relegated to supporting roles.

Now obviously, as technology and needs have adapted women have been able to take up more slack - and a women who is better physically conditioned will be much more useful than a sedentary male - but there's a reason why "war" in theory or reality is not 50% women. Nature is not fair and does not promote equality.

Having said that - suggesting Tyranids or Orks should have any female qualities, particularly things we attribute to the human feminine makes your argument come off as unnecessary and naive. It goes against nature, the fluff, and sensibilities. Could Eldar and Dark Eldar have more? Yes. Their culture also allows for greater advancement of women and it shows in their special characters - but again, you have to be careful to not just throw females in because "that's the way it should be". I wouldn't mind if a Spears of Hawks special female character came out, or those Twilight guys from FW. (Memory is bad, forgive me).

Tau could have more females, but fluff could swing either way. All things equal though, why not?

Imperial Guard could throw in a few random models. I doubt they'll do it for S and G though since it just hikes up the cost of production to make a minority of people happy - but, as a player, I have no problem with it. Maybe make a regiment of mostly females that somehow avoids the same niche of psychotic battle-women as SoB.

Something I'd really love to see is the return of the Black Ships with the Sisters of Silence. That'd make for an awesome faction/unit that's perfectly reasonable finanacially, fluff-wise, and practical.

"Faith & Fire" and "Hammer & Anvil" aren't bad, really, though I think he could have done a bit better with adding a bit more color to the characterizations of the Sisters, though having said that, they all have distinct personalities and depict human emotions. Some even crack jokes now and then.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Does Swallow portray them correctly, btw? I haven't read his book yet, so I don't really know.

I'd say so! He doesn't make any noticable slip-ups in terms of their fluff, and he writes them well too. I certainly enjoyed both of his SoB books.

 Psienesis wrote:
"Faith & Fire" and "Hammer & Anvil" aren't bad, really, though I think he could have done a bit better with adding a bit more color to the characterizations of the Sisters, though having said that, they all have distinct personalities and depict human emotions. Some even crack jokes now and then.

Jokes? Sisters have a sense of humor? Or is a sort of dry wit?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
"Faith & Fire" and "Hammer & Anvil" aren't bad, really, though I think he could have done a bit better with adding a bit more color to the characterizations of the Sisters, though having said that, they all have distinct personalities and depict human emotions. Some even crack jokes now and then.

Jokes? Sisters have a sense of humor? Or is a sort of dry wit?

In one of the fights with the Necrons, one of the Sisters, blasting a few Warriors apart with her bolter, smiles grimly and says, "I wish I had a Stormbolter!"

The problem is that men evolved for fighting. If you've taken anthropology courses you've probably gotten glimpses of this. Better spacial perception, increased androgen receptor sensitivity/density, increased muscle mass, larger waist/smaller hips, higher hand-grip strength, denser bones and stronger ligaments/tendons, ~50% greater lung volume, larger hearts and blood cell count, higher clotting factors, thicker skin, greater pain tolerance (Yep have to go through child birth AND feel more pain? Damn nature, you scary.)

The male sex is intended to fight and fight and much greater efficiency. They are, naturally, in all areas involving physical duress and capability naturally superior to women. I am not being facetious of sexist, this is the basic premise behind sexual dimorphism in nearly every sepcies - you evolve for your given task. In most cases, the responsibility of fighting (for women, territory, or resources), securing food, and combatting threats is the man's duty. This is why men are traditionally fighters and why women are typically relegated to supporting roles.

Now obviously, as technology and needs have adapted women have been able to take up more slack - and a women who is better physically conditioned will be much more useful than a sedentary male - but there's a reason why "war" in theory or reality is not 50% women. Nature is not fair and does not promote equality.

The science behind these claims is dubious, at best, and flat-out wrong in others. There are plenty of mammals in which the female has evolved to be the most-efficient hunter/killer. Historically speaking, there have been female soldiers in just about every era of history, up until the 18th century or so. There are documents dating quite a ways back that detail female knightly orders, as well as historical records indicating female Norse and Celt mercenary forces in the Roman Empire.

 Psienesis wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
"Faith & Fire" and "Hammer & Anvil" aren't bad, really, though I think he could have done a bit better with adding a bit more color to the characterizations of the Sisters, though having said that, they all have distinct personalities and depict human emotions. Some even crack jokes now and then.

Jokes? Sisters have a sense of humor? Or is a sort of dry wit?

In one of the fights with the Necrons, one of the Sisters, blasting a few Warriors apart with her bolter, smiles grimly and says, "I wish I had a Stormbolter!"

Ah yes, I can see them having that sort of humor.

I thought you meant something like "Two heretics walked into a bar...ouch"

I can't remember if there actually is a joke like that, but I do seem to remember some disparaging comments made about the Tech-Priest and his sonic wrench (or something along those lines).

OP is either a troll or stupid.
or both.
sisters of battle are derpy as hell sculpts, but I find the idea... odd.
I'll agree the imp. guard need more women, but they are there (see space marine)
also, have you noticed that half the elder guardians are female? no? THAT'S THE FETHING POINT.
howling banshees are based on something historically relevant (wasn't it valkryies?),
I'm pretty sure the spirit seer model is female too.
the slaves... are SO FETHING STUPID LOOKING. did someone hit both of them in the face with a sledge hammer? looks like it.
shadow sun (is that right?) is female too.
SOB look so... so... something.
demonettes are representations of succubuses (daemons that feed on sexual energies AKA WARPDUST!!!!)
also, howling banshees are awesome models, whenever I see armou my first thaught is "how would that work?" usualy I end up going stuff it, but with GW armour it generally seems about right.

tyranids are asexual, therefore, gender is rendered moot.
also, assassins , get it? ass-ass-ins?
they all have skin-fitting suits, makes it easier to, you know, change appearance, generally skin doesn't hang around you like a jumper... depending on who you are...

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Sisters have a sense of humor? Or is a sort of dry wit?

Yep, very dry. The protagonist of the Swallow books also makes an off-hand remark to her squad about them "not being the most favoured of squads", or something like that.

Their 5E codex has some examples too, possibly, with charming quotes such as "Heretics crave the clensing fire of absolution. They need not fear, for we shall deliver it to them" and "These heretics refute the Emperor's holy right to rule. Let them argue with the barrel of a gun".

 Troike wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Sisters have a sense of humor? Or is a sort of dry wit?

Yep, very dry. The protagonist of the Swallow books also makes an off-hand remark to her squad about them "not being the most favoured of squads", or something like that.

Their 5E codex has some examples too, possibly, with charming remarks quotes such as "Heretics crave the clensing fire of absolution. They need not fear, for we shall deliver it to them" and "These heretics refute the Emperor's holy right to rule. Let them argue with the barrel of a gun".

Ah yeessss that's the stuff

I love some dry wit or deadpan humor.

The science behind these claims is dubious, at best, and flat-out wrong in others. There are plenty of mammals in which the female has evolved to be the most-efficient hunter/killer. Historically speaking, there have been female soldiers in just about every era of history, up until the 18th century or so. There are documents dating quite a ways back that detail female knightly orders, as well as historical records indicating female Norse and Celt mercenary forces in the Roman Empire.

Want to challenge any of them with empirical evidence? Unless you're just going to randomly saying modern science being taught presently in the classroom is flawed based on your own opinions. These courses were in the past few years of my life.

"Plenty of mammals" means nothing in the grand total of all mammals. The lioness and etc? Sure. But no. Particularly primates, which we are based upon.
I never said there weren't female soldiers, pointing out that females existed in the military means nothing for the grand scheme of things.

Edit:

You actually called sexual dimorphisms which are confirmed, measured, and blatantly obvious "dubious at best, flat-out wrong in others"?
Goodness, that's an impressive amount of ignorance.

1. Putting human secondary sexual characteristics on robots. Particularly the faction that started off as science fiction skeletons. My only regret is that the most well thought out parody of that idea I know of isn't safe to link here.

2. There already is sexual dimorphism in Tyranids. It's insect colony sexual dimorphism. Like any good invasive alien species should be.

3. Last I checked, the standard Eldar troop sprues where 1/4 can be characterized as "armor contained blatantly recognizable mammary gland cavity". Not too much work to shift that around to equal, or admit that a good portion of the population (male or female) wouldn't wear that sort of armor and would end up looking mostly the same. Flat chested is a thing that happens in real life, unlike some fantasy artwork.

4. Orks are walking fungus to one extent or another. Why would anyone want to see mammary glands on fungus?

5. Do an image search for female Tau on the Internet for a followup to the previous question.

6. Space Marines were cooler twenty five years ago when they were mind wiped, reconditioned and disposable convicts. Back when a game designer could put a suicide bomb squad in an army.

7. Put a man and a woman of equal height each in space suits and try to tell which one is which. That's about how bulky and padded out Space Marine power armor is, relatively speaking. Take a Space Marine model, file off the eagle and put the Sisters of Battle insignia on the chest. You're not going to see whatever the effects of the steroids and implants have on the wearer underneath that armor, anyway.

8. I'm just numbering these paragraphs because I need to go sleep.

good night.

There are guardswomen as common as guardsmen, however there are no models, for some reason..... I'm guessing that it would look odd if we put a gritty head on a chest with bewbs. And not in the vidya gayms cos killing women looks baaaaad