Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, that's what happened and it was, IMO, a nice shake-up to the status quo...
... but now doesn't matter as nothing in that campaign has happened yet.

 Kain wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
If GW had not rolled back the results of the 13th Black Crusade world-wide campaign, Cadia would already be on the brink of falling....

.... but, of course, GW can't have a villain actually winning, so none of that happened.

Except that the Chaos Space Marines got facerolled in Space.

Victory on the ground is pointless when the opposition nukes you from orbit afterwards.

Well for one, they aren't willing to demolish Cadia, it's worth too much. Secondly, void-shielded bunkers are nearly impossible to destroy from space with the planet still remaining intact. And thirdly, Sorcerors can simply rip open warp portals to bring forth thousands of daemons and chaos space marines along with millions of cultists. So it's not nearly clear-cut at all.

EDIT-

And the Necrons could blow up the Sol System any day they wanted, along with anyone really besides Chaos. The Necrons have gotten buffed to the point that there's no real counter to them, considering a Cairn-Class Capital Ship is capable of punching through the defenses of the Sol System. They're not bogged down in any molasses, they just don't do it because their beef really isn't with humans.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
If GW had not rolled back the results of the 13th Black Crusade world-wide campaign, Cadia would already be on the brink of falling....

.... but, of course, GW can't have a villain actually winning, so none of that happened.

Except that the Chaos Space Marines got facerolled in Space.

Victory on the ground is pointless when the opposition nukes you from orbit afterwards.

Well for one, they aren't willing to demolish Cadia, it's worth too much. Secondly, void-shielded bunkers are nearly impossible to destroy from space with the planet still remaining intact. And thirdly, Sorcerors can simply rip open warp portals to bring forth thousands of daemons and chaos space marines along with millions of cultists. So it's not nearly clear-cut at all.

EDIT-

And the Necrons could blow up the Sol System any day they wanted, along with anyone really besides Chaos. The Necrons have gotten buffed to the point that there's no real counter to them, considering a Cairn-Class Capital Ship is capable of punching through the defenses of the Sol System. They're not bogged down in any molasses, they just don't do it because their beef really isn't with humans.

Then who is it that the Necrons have beef with? The Eldar? They are broken and out the door and if they could do that, surely they would settle the score with the Eldar and be done with it making the Eldar officially extinct. From my understanding, the Necrons have issue with everyone that isn't Necron, to the point of enacting systems to convert humans into Necrons or have we forgotten about Pariahs so easily?

They don't blow up the solar system because that'd cause all sorts of havoc for themselves, as well. Apparently biiig nasty chain reactions of hilarious apocalyptic (on a galactic scale!) start up once you start blowing up entire stars with the press of a button. Still a bit silly that they have something like that in the first place, though.

Handy if someone somewhere is being particularly troublesome though!

the Necrons have issue with everyone that isn't Necron, to the point of enacting systems to convert humans into Necrons or have we forgotten about Pariahs so easily?

Doesn't work like that any more. The Necrons are no longer the source of human Untouchables.

 Psienesis wrote:

the Necrons have issue with everyone that isn't Necron, to the point of enacting systems to convert humans into Necrons or have we forgotten about Pariahs so easily?

Doesn't work like that any more. The Necrons are no longer the source of human Untouchables.

Whoa, when did they retcon that? I personally liked that twist on things. What did they put in place of it?

BrianDavion wrote:
the 13th black crusade campaign was IMHO an utterly dumb decision on GW's part and something they reckongize. they've been not saying it but trying to move around it ever since.
you don't put the very future of your setting in the hands of your players because more often then not the side you figured would win... doesn't.

And there lies the underlying problem with GW's approach to the 40k fluff. Is that they really THINK the Space Marines should be winners regardless. If they'd loosen up on that (and their BL writters) the backstory would be much better.

 Envihon wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

the Necrons have issue with everyone that isn't Necron, to the point of enacting systems to convert humans into Necrons or have we forgotten about Pariahs so easily?

Doesn't work like that any more. The Necrons are no longer the source of human Untouchables.

Whoa, when did they retcon that? I personally liked that twist on things. What did they put in place of it?

Pariahs are not even mentioned in the latest Codex: Necron.

Just because something isn't mentioned doesn't mean it's been retconned out, though. I thought lots of times something isn't mentioned only for it to surface up again in wh40k.

Well, the whole idea of harvesting entire worlds is gone, except to a few Dynasties, the C'Tan don't call the shots any more, and they don't make new Necrons out of humans. The reason they "harvest" worlds is to study humanity to find out what makes it tick, as the interest seems to be in moving out of the Necrodermis shell and into bodies of flesh and blood once more.

The Necrons seek the frailties of the flesh once more, as well as its pleasures and the eventual mercy of death.

Pariahs could possibly have been seeded as an experiment or to make the humans turn out to be a possessable race down the line. ....I'm aware both possibilities are completely made up by me and honestly don't believe GW has that in consideration at all, though, but I suppose there's always the slim chance (or that if GW decides to bring Pariahs back into the spotlight, they could make up an explanation along those lines)

To be really honest and in all admittance, I myself feel that GW behind its doors has decided to retcon pariahs into nonexistence, if only because the models exist yet they still didn't show up in the codex. However, without any complete hard proof or explicit statement to it, I do think it's premature to say for certain they're retconned. Instead, I'd say they were "possibly retconned". Perhaps even "probably retconned" (due to the "models but no rules" thing) if one really wanted to push the point, but flat out saying "retconned" without any hard proof to that matter is something that really can't be done, in my opinion. After all, even Doomrider ended up showing up again despite never being mentioned for a looooong time (although again, unlike Doomrider, circumstantial evidence could help imply pariahs have been retconned out of existence, but still nothing I'd say is 100% certain about it)

Well, the main problem is that, given the time that the Necrons were actually around and able to do anything, the DNA strands that would later become Humanity were not even a thing. The Necrons had their last hurrah 60 million years prior to M41. That is many, many, many tens of millions of years before humanity would have been a thing, or anything that could even remotely have been thought of to be a thing.

Given that, at the time, the Necrons would not have had the time or the inclination to guess that humanity was going to rise to a position of dominance in the galaxy, or that the Enslavers (or the Eldar, take your pick) would have allowed the species to survive, or even that this genetic experiment with making 1 in 1 billion an Untouchable would have born any fruit at all.... it just doesn't make sense.

That was a problem even before newcron fluff though, wasn't it?

(Though weren't the precursors to humanity also created by the old ones? Albeit hilariously meant to be tree grazers. Or was that fandom?)

I do know they are still using the word 'Pariah' since it is the title of Dan Abnett's larest book in the whole Eisenhorn vs. Ravenor. But anyway, what I liked about it is that it provided a reason of there were humans not connected to the warp since every race except for the Necrons need the warp to exist so it was a nice logical leap that it was part of the Necrons plan in their attempt to retake the Galaxy, instead of total extermination, they could also win by making certain species just like them.

With that being said, the new fluff this certainly doesn't fit since they want to be flesh and blood again but I do agree that it would still fit in by saying that it was apart of research of using the humans as a possible source of new bodies. If they can cut off humans from the warp and have them still able to live then also be converted into the necrodermis as well, then there probably is a way to reverse the process.

And yes, the humans were apart of the creations by the old ones which is why they have that connection to the warp.

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, the main problem is that, given the time that the Necrons were actually around and able to do anything, the DNA strands that would later become Humanity were not even a thing. The Necrons had their last hurrah 60 million years prior to M41. That is many, many, many tens of millions of years before humanity would have been a thing, or anything that could even remotely have been thought of to be a thing.

Given that, at the time, the Necrons would not have had the time or the inclination to guess that humanity was going to rise to a position of dominance in the galaxy, or that the Enslavers (or the Eldar, take your pick) would have allowed the species to survive, or even that this genetic experiment with making 1 in 1 billion an Untouchable would have born any fruit at all.... it just doesn't make sense.

Well if i remember correctly in the original fluff it was the C'tan who engineered the pariah gene, before the retcon they may have had the foresight and ability for such a thing being wonky star gods and whatnot. Also there are the Praetorians to consider in the new fluff who never went to sleep, considering that one of their main missions was to preserve Necrontyr culture in other races it's possible they could have designed the pariah.

Lastly for what it's worth there's artwork in the new codex that contains pariahs, granted it's from the previous edition but hey could be a subtle form of recognizing them as canon. If anything I can imagine the pariahs cropping up in a BL novel as the experiment of one particular cryptek or dynasty or something along those lines rather than returning as staple of the Necron forces.