Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Kojiro wrote:
Random charges are indeed a bit odd to me. Explaining the charge extremes is difficult not just because the potential variable is so huge but also because it uncannily hits a whole squad at once. I can totally buy brother Bob got his greave caught on some debris but I struggle with the idea that Bob's whole squad got caught on something and none of them made it 3". The 'whole squad' aspect of 40k is one of the most off putting aspects of the game.

If you've ever seen a mass of people try to run in a group, if the guy in the front trips, it has a domino effect on all the people behind him. It's... actually kind of amusing, really. Also, while there are lots of armies in 40K that have troops who want to be the first to come to blows with the enemy, very few of them want to be the only guy to make it to the enemy. Unsupported assaults, historically, fail spectacularly.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:
Random charges are indeed a bit odd to me. Explaining the charge extremes is difficult not just because the potential variable is so huge but also because it uncannily hits a whole squad at once. I can totally buy brother Bob got his greave caught on some debris but I struggle with the idea that Bob's whole squad got caught on something and none of them made it 3". The 'whole squad' aspect of 40k is one of the most off putting aspects of the game.

If you've ever seen a mass of people try to run in a group, if the guy in the front trips, it has a domino effect on all the people behind him. It's... actually kind of amusing, really. Also, while there are lots of armies in 40K that have troops who want to be the first to come to blows with the enemy, very few of them want to be the only guy to make it to the enemy. Unsupported assaults, historically, fail spectacularly.

I have been there more than once and it is not fun especialy in 65-80lbs of armor.

 NL_Cirrus wrote:

 Flinty wrote:

 NL_Cirrus wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Flip the question and ask what is the fluff explanation why with a finite charge distance all charges make contact?

Easy, you know how far you can run, they are close enough for you to run over there so you do, and you hit them, lots.

But how long have you got to get there? The time represented by a "turn" is undefined and not ncessarily consistent between turns, or even phases.

True that the time between turns is undefined but every thing in the game from having a set speed that is identical (except in the case of running and assault moves) from turn to turn to all reliable weapons (ie not lootas) get the same number of shots every turn, indicates (or at least heavily implies) that every turn representing is the same amount of time.

weapons don't get the same number of shots every turn. Every turm the model wielding the weapon has the same probability of being effective with their shooting (given the same conditions).. This could represent a turn of spray and pray while closing quickly with the enemy, or a few well placed rounds from cover with plenty of time for aiming.

Movement is already explained as careful maneuvering over the battlefield. The turn length has effectively been normalised for the combat movement of all races.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@kojiro - Maybe all of bob's squad just recieved conflicting orders that caused them to fluff the maneuver and wait for further orders, or got beaten back by grenades before being able to get into contact.

 Psienesis wrote:
If you've ever seen a mass of people try to run in a group, if the guy in the front trips, it has a domino effect on all the people behind him. It's... actually kind of amusing, really.

Sure, and I would think large mobs of orks would fall afoul of this frequently given their lack of discipline and coordination but equally I don't see it for more disciplined/less numerous troops.

Also, while there are lots of armies in 40K that have troops who want to be the first to come to blows with the enemy, very few of them want to be the only guy to make it to the enemy. Unsupported assaults, historically, fail spectacularly.

Oh for sure. It's just odd that when 10 guys charge they don't end up scattered between the guy who never broke cover, the guy who tripped on a root, the guy who ran but slowed down when he realised and the guy who has fully committed. Instead they're all at exactly the same spot.

It has nothing to do with discipline or numbers, simply pure, dumb luck, but, eh, them's the charge rules.

I mean, you'd think that, if 40 dudes charge a line of other dudes with guns, you'd leave 20 dead and/or dying on the field, 5 dudes would be somewhere between Points A and B taking cover behind something, 5 dudes would have said "feth it" and ran the other direction, 3 dudes did not even leave Point A because they didn't hear the order, and 7 dudes maybe made it to Point B, where they were bayonetted to death.

 Psienesis wrote:
"Cover" is not just some pansy shrubs and tall grass, it's some serious foliage that is actively blocking, stopping and deflecting bullets (this is why it is "cover" and not just "concealment"). Moving through or over this kind of stuff is not easy for one guy, let alone a whole squad, platoon or company of guys, and if you're trying to stab someone through it, then you're getting your weapons tangled, waiting on someone to step near the gap, etc.

This is a problem for guardsmen and eldar, but Nids can either jump over it or simply charge through it, Space Marines can rip clean through it, Daemons can teleport through it or simply charge through it as well, necrons can blow it away, and Ork boys won't even notice it exists.

So no, it doesn't really make any sense in W40K, unless this 'cover' is a Catachan forest.

I can imagine starting a charge towards the enemy, up and down scarred explosive shell holes, explosions all around and over-watch fire pouring into the unit cutting many down before they make it into combat/ charging into assault and looking on as a monstrous Creature or 2-3 Battle tank role over the other side of the hill and the despair setting in... Or even having seen a fallen comrade/leader/ or hearing of a fallen commander over the radio as you charge into battle might cause some serious morale and emotional downheartedness. Enough to where quite a bit or all the motivation to make it into the assault is becoming/has become folly.

2x210 wrote:
There is no fluff justification that makes sense when you look at the fact that shooting does not have any of these same "realistic" qualifiers to drag it down.

True, shooting is dragged down by unbeliavably short ranges instead. If I see a man-sized target with the naked eye there's nothing stopping me from sending a few rifle shots his way. I might not hit but I can take the shot.

I think the question itself makes an unwarranted assumption.

The 'failed charge' isn't supposed to represent the unit failing to run forward far enough any more than "bringing in reserves" is supposed to represent soldiers standing 'right over there' and marching onto the board.

What happens if an assault move is successful? You engage the enemy in more favorable terms (more attacks).

If a charge fails, the enemy could shoot you more, or move away, or even assault you successfully (getting off a better assault).

The 'random charge range' represents all of the variables that might influence whether a unit under your command successfully initiates an assault on favorable terms. Those variables do include distance and terrain, but can include a lot of other variables. Some of those variables are represented by other rules (overwatch fire, bonuses to assault range rolls, etc). Others are subsumed into that random roll.

It's a way of mitigating the Igo-Ugo nature of 40K, and it also represents general battlefield unpredictability. It represents the chance that you might not be able to engage the enemy on your terms before they react and alter the situation.

Your marines might have their blood up and really want to wade into the greenskins, but maybe you underestimated the orks and their eagerness to get into battle proved superior (you failed your charge,and the ork player didn't). Your termagaunts really wanted to rend the Imperial gunline, but the troopers were too disciplined to panic (you failed the charge roll, and took both overwatch fire and another round of shooting from the IG). Your ravening Khorne berserkers were unable to reach the puny eldar before they fled from your wrath (you fail the charge roll and the Eldar player moves his troops further out of range).

It's not "We ran forward some, then stopped and looked around."

Problem is, your guys don't move forward. They just stand there instead

 StarTrotter wrote:
Problem is, your guys don't move forward. They just stand there instead

Expanding on DaButcher's response, an assautling unit has probably also moved that turn. The assault move represents them going hell for leather and trying to make contact. Sometimes they do, other times they don't. the models in the game make rigid moves and actions in a precise order in order to fit into the game rules. This is not supposed to mean that in reality the units walk forward a bit, stop, fire then move on a bit more to hit things but ar abstractions of all the actions that combat troops will undertake in the course of an undefined length of time during a battle.

They troops are not "just standing there" they are in the process of transitioning from one combat stance toanother, and just happen to get caught short in front of the enemy guns before they can hit the buggers,

But they don't. You roll a charge and if they fail, they just stay where they were. They don't even run, they just stand still. Then again, this is a game where if one out of a hundred models charges through cover they all get I1

The rules are an abstraction. Its as simple as that. The OP asked what the fluffly explanation was and a range of options has been provided. Ther are other ways the fluff could be abstracted in dfiferent ways into the rules, but they haven't.