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 SHUPPET wrote:

JPong wrote:
Shuppet, your argument would make sense, if people were saying Trygons are better. However people have stopped running Trygons as well.

So being that I'm quite clearly comparing it to the Trygon's from last book that were still taken, then I guess my argument goes back to making sense again?

Why compare them to 5th Trygons? Even if 5th trygons were copied into the new book exactly as they were, they still wouldn't compare to the 6th Heavy Support slot choices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:
What exactly is it that 2 Trygon's did for you guys in the past that Mawloc's won't do for you now?

It's not what they did then, it's what everything else can do now (for a reasonable cost). Carnifex weren't bad in the last book, they were overcosted. Tyrannofex weren't bad in the last dex, they were overcosted.

Price has almost nothing to do with what makes units good, just what makes them viable picks over the rest of the stuff. For example, I wouldn't take Pyrovores if they were free. Because they are a bad model.

JPong wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

JPong wrote:
Shuppet, your argument would make sense, if people were saying Trygons are better. However people have stopped running Trygons as well.

So being that I'm quite clearly comparing it to the Trygon's from last book that were still taken, then I guess my argument goes back to making sense again?

Why compare them to 5th Trygons? Even if 5th trygons were copied into the new book exactly as they were, they still wouldn't compare to the 6th Heavy Support slot choices.

Well I guess that's an opinion. I personally would strongly consider Trygon's if they had the old ScyTals - there is just something to be said for versatility - they are always a major threat. And I feel my argument suggest Mawloc's to be currently better than Trygons ever were, although thats also an opinion but its at least agreeable that they are fairly evenly matched at powerlevels

I took a Trygon with the 5th ed dex because I ran a heavy reserves list and it synergised well wit the rest of my army. Sadly, with that no longer being an option, I wouldn't take Trygons even if they got rerolls back.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I took a Trygon with the 5th ed dex because I ran a heavy reserves list and it synergised well wit the rest of my army. Sadly, with that no longer being an option, I wouldn't take Trygons even if they got rerolls back.

Without getting too further off topic (got the impression OP didnt want massive debates), I'll say that I think this might be fairly accurate. Which is something I sort of touched on earlier, being that you don't just throw a Mawloc into a list, the list has to be built around them for them to be the most effect. I too main'ed a drop pod heavy (in fact, almost everything - single Tervigon) list in 5th. Now between Flyrants, outflanking troops and Mawloc's I still attempt something similar to good results, at least at 1500 which is the norm at my group. Sure Hive Commander is no spore, but it is 15 ppu cheaper, similar story with Flyrants, worse but acceptable for the points, I feel the main thing that makes this list worth considering and better than last year is the incredible strength of the Mawloc in a suitable list. So there's a few things here that might explain the difference in mileage and after reading your post I suspect a large contributor is the playstyle we are each attempting with the Mawloc. I think we can both agree that they are quite a focused model though, and while still decent and not useless in a walking list, I agree the Exocrine / Tfex are just stronger choices most of the time

I've played a few games against the new 'Nids lately and had mixed results.

I played 1500 pts against them with a mixed IG list, and between night fighting and some poor rolling I didn't kill much the first two turns but still almost managed to win the game. The flyrants seem pretty solid, and dakkafexes can put out plenty of infantry or light armor killing shots.

The next couple games were 2 vs. 2. The first I was using IG and paired with Orks (which my buddy still, after like 5 years, has no clue how to use). We played against Nids and Necrons, got absolutely smoked because it was kill points and I unfortunately had a lot of Chimeras/Arty and Necrons just glance the crap out of them.

Third game was much more entertaining, 2 vs. 2 again I was using GKs and was paired with IG against Nids and Orks. Some deep strikers and a pair of sentinels that stomped out 30 outflanking gants won us the game but aside from 2 flyrants the Nids didn't pose too many problems.

The biggest problem I've seen is the Nids having enough scoring units left at the end of the game to reliably win in objective contests, and synapse is obviously the issue there. As long as their opponent can weather the assault and maybe grab an objective or two in the back of the field they'll have no problem winning if they can pick off synapse creatures.

I'm confused... why are trygons bad now? A big monster with synapse and shadow with a shooting attack that's assault 12 and then a bunch of melee attacks. And preferred enemy if I wanna spend 10 points. Or even more anti infantry if I spend 25. They way I see it, its another nice, big monster that soaks fire and give saturation

Von Chogg

 Von Chogg wrote:
I'm confused... why are trygons bad now? A big monster with synapse and shadow with a shooting attack that's assault 12 and then a bunch of melee attacks. And preferred enemy if I wanna spend 10 points. Or even more anti infantry if I spend 25. They way I see it, its another nice, big monster that soaks fire and give saturation

Von Chogg

Because its squishy for its points since they are crazy expensive and other units preform better than them

 Von Chogg wrote:
And preferred enemy if I wanna spend 10 points.

After you kill something...don't want people getting the idea that they can reroll 1s on their shooting the turn they come up.

Here's an example of our game right after the codex dropped, my DE hard counter vs a bug list. Learn what you can.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/577807.page

Good post from the other thread about the Mawlock:

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
How did the mawlocks perform blackmore? It looks to be a very cheap source of T6 3+ save in the game, even if their attacks are unreliable.

Deshkar wrote:


Blackmoor: Curious to how your mawlocs did, mine has been seriously inconsistent.

The answer is that they did great!

Most people look at them and all they see is the strength 6, AP2 template that they put down. We all know that it only has a 33% chance to hit so it is not all that effective. But when they deep strike into the middle of my opponent's army when I am also outflanking 55 termagants, and flying over with 2 crones, and 2 hive tyrants they do not have the firepower to kill them, and then they get to assault on turn #3. 140 points is a bargain for a T6, 6 wound TMC that ends up in the middle of my opponents army. If you think about all of the good armies out there, they're very few that can kill them in assault. Assault is dead and so no one has anything that can beat them except for a few units (wraithknights). They have the same roll as trygons, but you lose 2 attacks, and gain the Terror From The Deep ability, and save 50 points.

They also gave me line breaker several times, and on turn #4 I often burrowed them and then on turn #5 I hit scoring units holding objectives. Even if I scatter off and do not hit the unit that is holding the objective I can just run back to it to at least contest the objective.

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Good post from the other thread about the Mawlock:

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
How did the mawlocks perform blackmore? It looks to be a very cheap source of T6 3+ save in the game, even if their attacks are unreliable.

Deshkar wrote:


Blackmoor: Curious to how your mawlocs did, mine has been seriously inconsistent.

The answer is that they did great!

Most people look at them and all they see is the strength 6, AP2 template that they put down. We all know that it only has a 33% chance to hit so it is not all that effective. But when they deep strike into the middle of my opponent's army when I am also outflanking 55 termagants, and flying over with 2 crones, and 2 hive tyrants they do not have the firepower to kill them, and then they get to assault on turn #3. 140 points is a bargain for a T6, 6 wound TMC that ends up in the middle of my opponents army. If you think about all of the good armies out there, they're very few that can kill them in assault. Assault is dead and so no one has anything that can beat them except for a few units (wraithknights). They have the same roll as trygons, but you lose 2 attacks, and gain the Terror From The Deep ability, and save 50 points.

They also gave me line breaker several times, and on turn #4 I often burrowed them and then on turn #5 I hit scoring units holding objectives. Even if I scatter off and do not hit the unit that is holding the objective I can just run back to it to at least contest the objective.

The basic rule here and what many of us have learned is to make your army all one speed. You can be slow and scuttling or supersonic...just don't offer your units up one at a time to be picked apart by the enemy.

Definitely, wave tactics are a terrible idea with Nids.

I've had a lot of success with the Mawloc. For such a slow army, having a unit that can be anywhere on the battlefield is really quite powerful. In two games now, i've managed to save him for the late game, and contested objectives and killed scoring units on Turn 5 and 6. In a Big Guns game, I managed to burrow him turn 4 and claim a distant pbjective turn 5, winning me the game.

Their damage output isn't what is awesome about them, in my opinion. But rahter their ability to land a blow and contest objectives anywhere on the board, anytime during the game.

Edit: Forgot about easy line breaker as well.