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I agree, a lightsabre should definitely have the Fleshbane, Armourbane and Blade Parry special rules.

 A GumyBear wrote:
I wouldnt make a lightsaber wound automatically. Fleshbane would be more accurate since your not always going to be delivering a particularly maiming or killing blow (see obi-wan vs count dokuu (spelling?) In episode 2)

I would just chalk those up as misses.

 trexmeyer wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
I wouldnt make a lightsaber wound automatically. Fleshbane would be more accurate since your not always going to be delivering a particularly maiming or killing blow (see obi-wan vs count dokuu (spelling?) In episode 2)

I would just chalk those up as misses.

Well to hit rolls are based on the skill of the fighters which is why they use to weapon skill. To wound rolls are to see if those hits were anything lethal or just grazing hits or if they even had enough oomph to rattle the cage of the target. (The BRB descriptions come to mind)

Have it always wound a 2+ then in order to represent grazing hits. All it comes down is to achieving the unsaved wound per round output you think is appropriate for the model.

Mandalorian Iron is also known to resist lightsabers well enough to prevent penetration without a significant application of strength. Mandalorian Iron is of course nothing more than a very high grade metal, so I think it's too much to give lightsabers AP2. Especially considering that ceramite, obviously having some sort of ceramic base, should have very high heat resistance. Against an Astartes, I'm afraid our Jedi friend would discover that the ceramite would resist his lightsaber, even if just long enough for the Astartes to pulverize him.

Coke. Coke wins

 Orblivion wrote:
Mandalorian Iron is also known to resist lightsabers well enough to prevent penetration without a significant application of strength. Mandalorian Iron is of course nothing more than a very high grade metal, so I think it's too much to give lightsabers AP2. Especially considering that ceramite, obviously having some sort of ceramic base, should have very high heat resistance. Against an Astartes, I'm afraid our Jedi friend would discover that the ceramite would resist his lightsaber, even if just long enough for the Astartes to pulverize him.

Ceramics besting a lightsaber?

I think it is silly to pit one IP against another. The fact that the established in universe rules are nearly always considerably different renders such a discussion pointless. Now if you want to compare prestige that would be a bit of a different story.

I'd consider a generic Jedi Knight and Space Marine roughly equal in terms of in universe power.

Quick comparison:

Tier 1 - Imperial Guard Soldier/Republic Trooper
Tier 2 - Imperial Stormtrooper/Mandalorian
Tier 3 - Space Marine/Jedi Knight
Tier 4 - Space Marine Captain/Jedi Knight Master
Tier 5+ - Legendary figures such as named Space Marine Chapter Masters and Captains or Chaos Lords/Characters such as Grievous, Dooku, Obi-Wan, Anakin

Modern ceramics are the explanation for why the space shuttle could withstand temperatures during reentry that would liquefy steel. Ceramite is obviously some kind of ceramic composite. The idea of it resisting, even just momentarily, something that another grade of metal can resist isn't any crazier than the basic concepts of the ridiculous weaponry that we're discussing.

 Orblivion wrote:
Modern ceramics are the explanation for why the space shuttle could withstand temperatures during reentry that would liquefy steel. Ceramite is obviously some kind of ceramic composite. The idea of it resisting, even just momentarily, something that another grade of metal can resist isn't any crazier than the basic concepts of the ridiculous weaponry that we're discussing.

Although to be fair light sabers can cut through very thick blast doors.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
Modern ceramics are the explanation for why the space shuttle could withstand temperatures during reentry that would liquefy steel. Ceramite is obviously some kind of ceramic composite. The idea of it resisting, even just momentarily, something that another grade of metal can resist isn't any crazier than the basic concepts of the ridiculous weaponry that we're discussing.

Although to be fair light sabers can cut through very thick blast doors.

Made of a steel compound...and 50% of the time they have to run away from droids for not being able to do it.

As soon as I saw that 6th had ap on melee I thought we'd see a generic bonus for any kind of power weapon against armor...thankfully, it was applied to only ap2 and ap1.

 curran12 wrote:
Probably a lightsaber is stronger than a power sword, if you consider that lightsabers are regularly rammed through blast doors and other heavy, dense materials that we have not seen done with a power sword.

That said, it is debatable if a lightsaber could cut through a power sword's field, and without going into a big Star Wars vs 40k debate, I'll just leave that at that.

Lightsabers are actually weaker than Power Swords, and Power Swords have sliced to bulkheads, blast doors, iron pillars, etc with just the same effectiveness. However, unlike a lightsaber, power swords have actual weight behind him, unlikely the largely weightless plasma blade sealed in an electromagnetic coating like the lightsaber. That and the power field would certainly counter a lightsaber.

It just comes down to the power sword having its own weight behind it, while the person behind the lightsaber has to put his weight behind it, and would be at a SEVERE disadvantage in a duel due to any overhead swings with the power sword likely hammering the lightsaber into its owner's skull.


Seriously people, read before you post. I'm an avid Star Wars fan, and lightsabers are no-where near as good as they're cracked up to be. Hell, force swords, which are metal blades that channel the power of the Force, are arguably better than lightsabers and come from the days of the original Jedi and Sith orders. There's numerous metals in Star Wars that not only are resistant to lightsabers, but even make them downright irrelevant. For example, a lightsaber would certainly be incapable of cutting through W40K admantanium.



Best comparison I could make would be to think of the lightsaber as an energized rapier that can cut through most metals. Now the power sword is the exact same thing, only it's a claymore. Guess who's going to chopy clean through any block made by the opponent?

A power field would only increase the the ionisation of plasma in the lightsabre, rather than countering it would assist the lightsabre in cutting through the sword.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
A power field would only increase the the ionisation of plasma in the lightsabre, rather than countering it would assist the lightsabre in cutting through the sword.

Except there's numerous examples of it behaving exactly like a lightsaber, even used to block projectiles.
(Which is actually better than a lightsaber in that aspect, as a lightsaber couldn't block bolter rounds.)

Nevie wrote:
Coke. Coke wins

Pepsi, you heaten!

A lightsaber can be used to block solid rounds, but it destroys the round rather than deflecting it.

Every instance I can think of of a power sword being used to deflect a shot is from the Eisenhorn books, though, and Gregor Eisenhorn is explicitly the 40k universe's answer to Obi-wan, down to the relic power sword he starts with (here's a hint: The blade is a coherent beam of energy rather than the more common blade surrounded by a power field. He even loses it to industrial machinery!)

 Furyou Miko wrote:
A lightsaber can be used to block solid rounds, but it destroys the round rather than deflecting it.

Every instance I can think of of a power sword being used to deflect a shot is from the Eisenhorn books, though, and Gregor Eisenhorn is explicitly the 40k universe's answer to Obi-wan, down to the relic power sword he starts with (here's a hint: The blade is a coherent beam of energy rather than the more common blade surrounded by a power field. He even loses it to industrial machinery!)

Except it wouldn't offer full protection. Shrapnel resistant to the lightsaber would simply end up ripping the user's body with superheated metal sharps while larger rounds would splint if they're bigger than the blade itself. Then there's the superheated gases resulting from the obliteration of any solid round which would again pass through the blade and scroch the wielder's body. With Bolters, then there's the admantanium tip which it couldn't destroy, which would then continue moving forward and tear a hole in the user's body.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
A lightsaber can be used to block solid rounds, but it destroys the round rather than deflecting it.

Every instance I can think of of a power sword being used to deflect a shot is from the Eisenhorn books, though, and Gregor Eisenhorn is explicitly the 40k universe's answer to Obi-wan, down to the relic power sword he starts with (here's a hint: The blade is a coherent beam of energy rather than the more common blade surrounded by a power field. He even loses it to industrial machinery!)

Except it wouldn't offer full protection. Shrapnel resistant to the lightsaber would simply end up ripping the user's body with superheated metal sharps while larger rounds would splint if they're bigger than the blade itself. Then there's simply the superheated gases resulting from the obliteration of any solid round which would again pass through the blade and scroch the wielder's body. With Bolters, then there's the admantanium tip which it couldn't destroy, which would then continue moving forward and tear a whole in the user's body.

Thus why I used to get shredded by the sandpeople in old games.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
A lightsaber can be used to block solid rounds, but it destroys the round rather than deflecting it.

Every instance I can think of of a power sword being used to deflect a shot is from the Eisenhorn books, though, and Gregor Eisenhorn is explicitly the 40k universe's answer to Obi-wan, down to the relic power sword he starts with (here's a hint: The blade is a coherent beam of energy rather than the more common blade surrounded by a power field. He even loses it to industrial machinery!)

Except it wouldn't offer full protection. Shrapnel resistant to the lightsaber would simply end up ripping the user's body with superheated metal sharps while larger rounds would splint if they're bigger than the blade itself. Then there's simply the superheated gases resulting from the obliteration of any solid round which would again pass through the blade and scroch the wielder's body. With Bolters, then there's the admantanium tip which it couldn't destroy, which would then continue moving forward and tear a whole in the user's body.

All fair points.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Not on par? A pre-Coruscant invasion Grievous is capable of defeating 5 Jedi simultaneously, and not complete randoms either, he beat Aayla Secura, Shaak Ti, Ki-Adi-Mundi, K'krukh and... some other guy, i think he was Ki-Adi-Mundi's padawan, (ok, 1 complete random) in the battle of Hypori. Besting 4 Jedi masters and 1 padawan is no mere feat.

For anyone interested, here is the clip.




Power blades are seen to be capable of parrying each other. This means that their power fields can block other energy weapons.
However, Warscythes are shown in the Word Bearers novels to be able to shear through a power sword. I assume Lightsabers would just do that, making a power sword useless.

Let's face it, Cartoon grievous clearly outmatches almost anything. I don't think the Swarmlord would even be in with a shout.

Not to mention, that's with just two arms (ok, and one leg). Later in the series, he draws four lightsabers, and beats the crap out of Shaak Ti.

Swarmy would just send a Lictor, that's one dead Greivous.

 4oursword wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Not on par? A pre-Coruscant invasion Grievous is capable of defeating 5 Jedi simultaneously, and not complete randoms either, he beat Aayla Secura, Shaak Ti, Ki-Adi-Mundi, K'krukh and... some other guy, i think he was Ki-Adi-Mundi's padawan, (ok, 1 complete random) in the battle of Hypori. Besting 4 Jedi masters and 1 padawan is no mere feat.

For anyone interested, here is the clip.




Power blades are seen to be capable of parrying each other. This means that their power fields can block other energy weapons.
However, Warscythes are shown in the Word Bearers novels to be able to shear through a power sword. I assume Lightsabers would just do that, making a power sword useless.

Let's face it, Cartoon grievous clearly outmatches almost anything. I don't think the Swarmlord would even be in with a shout.

Not to mention, that's with just two arms (ok, and one leg). Later in the series, he draws four lightsabers, and beats the crap out of Shaak Ti.

Grievous has been severely nerfed in Star Wars as of now, horribly so. Although they might be of equal canon, but grievous with the old holocron canon tiers, the 3D cartoon overruled the 2D cartoon as the 3D cartoon is T canon.

Well warscythes are a completely different story since they partially exist in a different dimmension and are capable of slicing literally anything with ease and are basically the lightsaber equivalent of 40k as far as the magical cuts everything melee weapon goes (just going off the top of my head with this one)

 A GumyBear wrote:
Well warscythes are a completely different story since they partially exist in a different dimmension and are capable of slicing literally anything with ease and are basically the lightsaber equivalent of 40k as far as the magical cuts everything melee weapon goes (just going off the top of my head with this one)

Huh, I thought Warscythes were living metal that adapted to the make-up of the thing they were being used to cut.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Hyperphase Swords?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
Well warscythes are a completely different story since they partially exist in a different dimmension and are capable of slicing literally anything with ease and are basically the lightsaber equivalent of 40k as far as the magical cuts everything melee weapon goes (just going off the top of my head with this one)

Huh, I thought Warscythes were living metal that adapted to the make-up of the thing they were being used to cut.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Hyperphase Swords?

Like a C'tan Phase Sword...Callidus Assassin.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
Well warscythes are a completely different story since they partially exist in a different dimmension and are capable of slicing literally anything with ease and are basically the lightsaber equivalent of 40k as far as the magical cuts everything melee weapon goes (just going off the top of my head with this one)

Huh, I thought Warscythes were living metal that adapted to the make-up of the thing they were being used to cut.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Hyperphase Swords?

I may be, its been a while since I read the cron fluff (i read it right when the new book came out and havent touched it since) and im just going off the top of my head. The 3rd ed book might be messing with me too I cant remember which is from which book atm

 Wyzilla wrote:

 4oursword wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Not on par? A pre-Coruscant invasion Grievous is capable of defeating 5 Jedi simultaneously, and not complete randoms either, he beat Aayla Secura, Shaak Ti, Ki-Adi-Mundi, K'krukh and... some other guy, i think he was Ki-Adi-Mundi's padawan, (ok, 1 complete random) in the battle of Hypori. Besting 4 Jedi masters and 1 padawan is no mere feat.

For anyone interested, here is the clip.




Power blades are seen to be capable of parrying each other. This means that their power fields can block other energy weapons.
However, Warscythes are shown in the Word Bearers novels to be able to shear through a power sword. I assume Lightsabers would just do that, making a power sword useless.

Let's face it, Cartoon grievous clearly outmatches almost anything. I don't think the Swarmlord would even be in with a shout.

Not to mention, that's with just two arms (ok, and one leg). Later in the series, he draws four lightsabers, and beats the crap out of Shaak Ti.

Grievous has been severely nerfed in Star Wars as of now, horribly so. Although they might be of equal canon, but grievous with the old holocron canon tiers, the 3D cartoon overruled the 2D cartoon as the 3D cartoon is T canon.

This is true. Sadly, the character in Revenge of the Sith with the most potential has been ruined. Even in the film he was utterly inept.

 4oursword wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 4oursword wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Not on par? A pre-Coruscant invasion Grievous is capable of defeating 5 Jedi simultaneously, and not complete randoms either, he beat Aayla Secura, Shaak Ti, Ki-Adi-Mundi, K'krukh and... some other guy, i think he was Ki-Adi-Mundi's padawan, (ok, 1 complete random) in the battle of Hypori. Besting 4 Jedi masters and 1 padawan is no mere feat.

For anyone interested, here is the clip.




Power blades are seen to be capable of parrying each other. This means that their power fields can block other energy weapons.
However, Warscythes are shown in the Word Bearers novels to be able to shear through a power sword. I assume Lightsabers would just do that, making a power sword useless.

Let's face it, Cartoon grievous clearly outmatches almost anything. I don't think the Swarmlord would even be in with a shout.

Not to mention, that's with just two arms (ok, and one leg). Later in the series, he draws four lightsabers, and beats the crap out of Shaak Ti.

Grievous has been severely nerfed in Star Wars as of now, horribly so. Although they might be of equal canon, but grievous with the old holocron canon tiers, the 3D cartoon overruled the 2D cartoon as the 3D cartoon is T canon.

This is true. Sadly, the character in Revenge of the Sith with the most potential has been ruined. Even in the film he was utterly inept.

He was actually inept in the film as ILM didn't have the faintest clue on how to animate a character with four arms in a swordfight without him immediately winning.

 4oursword wrote:

Love the fact that the Jedi need the Clone to come and save their bacon at the end, wish you'd see something like happening to SM in 40k, but alas, we can't have nice things.

Personally, I think a jedi knight would be akin to an eldar warlock but with an extra wound and WS. Hell, the runes of battle could even represent jedi powers quite well!

As for sabres, I think a witchblade with AP4 would be appropriate. Think about it. It cuts through most things, but slows at a door of thick metal. I would count a 3+ sv as being 'thick' or heat resistant metal (ceramite and all that)

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Jedi are basically eldar in reflex and skill


Von Chogg

 Ailaros wrote:


A light sabre is a beam of energy that applies that energy to whatever it touches. Anything that can be affected by energy can be cut with a lightsabre.

Except the half-dozen lightsaber resistant materials in the galaxy....

Lightsabers are actually weaker than Power Swords, and Power Swords have sliced to bulkheads, blast doors, iron pillars, etc with just the same effectiveness. However, unlike a lightsaber, power swords have actual weight behind him, unlikely the largely weightless plasma blade sealed in an electromagnetic coating like the lightsaber. That and the power field would certainly counter a lightsaber.

Based on what science? You're trying to compare two completely different settings with completely different sciences and technology from one another. 40K physics does not equal Star Wars physics and vice versa.