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So are they considered the same strength and armor penetration? If so I have news for my friend who seems to think General Grievous from Star Wars can't beat a space marine, dude swings 4 lightsabers with 20 strikes per second max.

Probably a lightsaber is stronger than a power sword, if you consider that lightsabers are regularly rammed through blast doors and other heavy, dense materials that we have not seen done with a power sword.

That said, it is debatable if a lightsaber could cut through a power sword's field, and without going into a big Star Wars vs 40k debate, I'll just leave that at that.

Debating on hobby horse vs another really really wastes time. Star Wars guy and 40k guy win depending on the author and the motivated party.

 lazarian wrote:
Debating on hobby horse vs another really really wastes time. Star Wars guy and 40k guy win depending on the author and the motivated party.

Exalted.

This is a waste of time argument. Like trying to argue if the Enterprise can beat a star destroyer. or which is better, Coke or Pepsi...

Wasn't really debating the whole character thing here, just wanted to know if a lightsaber was similar in fashion to a power sword, helps me from a modeling and painting standpoint as well.

EDIT: thanks curran12 for answering my question

 curran12 wrote:
That said, it is debatable if a lightsaber could cut through a power sword's field, and without going into a big Star Wars vs 40k debate, I'll just leave that at that.

Aye, there's really little common ground for comparing the technologies used. And both are more space opera than science fiction anyway - magic disguised behind technobabble, or technology presented as so advanced that it seems like magic to us. Any debate on that subject invites 40+ page threads of endless "my daddy is stronger than your daddy" arguments.

As for the OP - if someone is swinging four lightsabers with some modicum of skill he should be able to deflect or trap the marine's power sword with 1-2 and get 2-3 hits on the marine. Or failing that use three lightsabers on the trap and kill the marine with one? He doesn't have to be "better" than the nameless marine for that, just better equipped for that particular and unlikely scenario. He'd probably be less than pleased at taking rapid fire from a bolter from a more sane marine. :-)

Spetulhu wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
That said, it is debatable if a lightsaber could cut through a power sword's field, and without going into a big Star Wars vs 40k debate, I'll just leave that at that.

Aye, there's really little common ground for comparing the technologies used. And both are more space opera than science fiction anyway - magic disguised behind technobabble, or technology presented as so advanced that it seems like magic to us. Any debate on that subject invites 40+ page threads of endless "my daddy is stronger than your daddy" arguments.

As for the OP - if someone is swinging four lightsabers with some modicum of skill he should be able to deflect or trap the marine's power sword with 1-2 and get 2-3 hits on the marine. Or failing that use three lightsabers on the trap and kill the marine with one? He doesn't have to be "better" than the nameless marine for that, just better equipped for that particular and unlikely scenario. He'd probably be less than pleased at taking rapid fire from a bolter from a more sane marine. :-)

Indeed, not much in fluff survives a rapid fire from a boltgun haha

Ralis wrote:

 lazarian wrote:
Debating on hobby horse vs another really really wastes time. Star Wars guy and 40k guy win depending on the author and the motivated party.

Exalted.

This is a waste of time argument. Like trying to argue...which is better, Coke or Pepsi...

Pepsi, whew...that was easy.

Straight up?...A lightsaber beats a power sword...no questions asked.

But does a Jedi really beat any character wielding a powersword?

It does take a lightsaber a while to cut through a blast door...a seemingly made of a steel compound blast door, I'd think that it wouldn't be the best at penetrating ceramite or better.

Jedi cuts dudebro's power sword in half...dudebro punches a hole straight through the unarmoured Jedi.

For all intensive purposes I'd consider a lightsaber S: User AP: 2 on a guy with a 6+Armor / 5+ Dodge Save.

Lights abres and power swords are very dissimilar.

A light sabre is a beam of energy that applies that energy to whatever it touches. Anything that can be affected by energy can be cut with a lightsabre.

A power sword is a regular sword lightly sheathed in a disruptor field. This allows it to pass through a substance the width of the field more easily, but no more. Once that freebie is exhausted, it's just like any other chunk of steel.

A light sabre, with enough time, could hack apart a tank into pieces, while a power sword never could. The light sabre is limited to the power of the weapon, while the power sword is limited to the strength of the wielder.

That's a pretty big difference in this case.

 Ailaros wrote:
Lights abres and power swords are very dissimilar.

A light sabre is a beam of energy that applies that energy to whatever it touches. Anything that can be affected by energy can be cut with a lightsabre.

A power sword is a regular sword lightly sheathed in a disruptor field. This allows it to pass through a substance the width of the field more easily, but no more. Once that freebie is exhausted, it's just like any other chunk of steel.

A light sabre, with enough time, could hack apart a tank into pieces, while a power sword never could. The light sabre is limited to the power of the weapon, while the power sword is limited to the strength of the wielder.

That's a pretty big difference in this case.

There are those who also project such fields solely with their psychic powers. Many psyker's force swords are just metal swords that they create a power field around.

Technically, no GK wields a "power sword", they wield swords that are powered by their psychic will...and therefore the sword is as strong as their will...but does take the actual shape of the weapon into account. Like with Daemonhammers.

This is why the Daemonhunter book had varying degrees of Nemesis Weapon Abilities.

Standard GK: +2S
Justicar: +2S & Power Weapon
Terminator: +2S & Power Weapon
Brother Captains (Including Terminator Squad Leaders) and Grand Masters: +2S, Power Weapon, & Force Weapon

Some of the older powerswords do operate as a beam of energy.....if black libary novels can come into it.

A power sword's field weakens the molecular bonds of objects in order to cut through them.
A lightsabre's blade is made of ionised plasma trapped in a magnetic field.
The power field would only serve to make the lightsabre hotter, it would cut right through the power sword.

As far Space Marine vs. General Grievous goes, Grievous is what happens when you get a Necron Lord and give it the Swarmlord's weapons, weapon skill and initiative, Marine doesn't stand a chance.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
A power sword's field weakens the molecular bonds of objects in order to cut through them.
A lightsabre's blade is made of ionised plasma trapped in a magnetic field.
The power field would only serve to make the lightsabre hotter, it would cut right through the power sword.

As far Space Marine vs. General Grievous goes, Grievous is what happens when you get a Necron Lord and give it the Swarmlord's weapons, weapon skill and initiative, Marine doesn't stand a chance.

It depends. He does not seem nearly as tough as a Necron. His actual skill is also debatable, he just used the fact that he had four weapons to his advantage. Really, a bolter shot or two and he goes down.

Now I'm wondering if a lightsaber could block a boltgun round...or if it would just explode upon impact...

I think if I was stating a jedi I'd start with an imperial assassin. And as someone above me said S:user AP:2 is a great place to make a lightsaber.

As far a Grievous goes... he really isn't nearly as awesome as we all want him to be... he's not actually a jedi or force sensitive at all...he's just a really really good swordsman by unmodified human standards. So his reflexes and combat ability and all are basically "olympic gymnest +1" as opposed to "incredibly superhuman" like the full on jedi.

Look at KOTOR (Knights of the Old Republic), in that game you can use swords against light sabers.

Well s:user for a lightsaber wouldn't really make sense since it will cut through a tree just as easy no matter how much force you put into it and no matter who wields it. I would say s:7 since its power isnt really affected by the wielders physical strength just skill with a blade. I say strength 7 also since its made of plasma and the 40k's plasma is considered to be s7

BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
A power sword's field weakens the molecular bonds of objects in order to cut through them.
A lightsabre's blade is made of ionised plasma trapped in a magnetic field.
The power field would only serve to make the lightsabre hotter, it would cut right through the power sword.

As far Space Marine vs. General Grievous goes, Grievous is what happens when you get a Necron Lord and give it the Swarmlord's weapons, weapon skill and initiative, Marine doesn't stand a chance.

It depends. He does not seem nearly as tough as a Necron. His actual skill is also debatable, he just used the fact that he had four weapons to his advantage. Really, a bolter shot or two and he goes down.

Highly articulated joints + 4 blades moving independently + trained by Count Dooku (A master of 1 on 1 combat) is why I gave him the Weapon Skill bump. You're right though, he's probably not as tough as a Necron Lord and would lose a ranged fight, I was just assuming it was melee only. It would take quite a few bolter rounds though, Obiwan managed to take him out with what is essentially a weak plasma gun directly to his internal organs, a Space Marine isn't going to have that opportunity if we're talking about a Greivous before his chest was crushed by Mace Windu.

Rippy wrote:Look at KOTOR (Knights of the Old Republic), in that game you can use swords against light sabers.

Cortosis-weave swords.

 Rippy wrote:
Look at KOTOR (Knights of the Old Republic), in that game you can use swords against light sabers.

Thats just to keep it fair, a long sword in reality gets chopped in half by a lightsaber (vibroblades are different as they have special fields aroundthem to make it lightsaber friendly)

Kharn745 wrote:
Wasn't really debating the whole character thing here, just wanted to know if a lightsaber was similar in fashion to a power sword, helps me from a modeling and painting standpoint as well.

EDIT: thanks curran12 for answering my question

Some powerswords are regular metal blades (probably adamantium, but not always) wrapped in an energy field that breaks down matter on a molecular level. Others, like the Sollex-pattern power sword, are basically just the energy field, shaped like a swordblade. So it is the 40K version of a lightsaber.

Which is stronger? Who knows. Jedi will never meet Space Marines, it's two different IPs.

Just put wolverine in terminator armor and we can call it a day already.

 A GumyBear wrote:
Well s:user for a lightsaber wouldn't really make sense since it will cut through a tree just as easy no matter how much force you put into it and no matter who wields it. I would say s:7 since its power isnt really affected by the wielders physical strength just skill with a blade. I say strength 7 also since its made of plasma and the 40k's plasma is considered to be s7

Well, this is where we get into the ambiguities of the strength/armor save system. I personally would settle for putting it on S4 models and giving the weapon armorbane as a property to represent its "super choppy-ness".

And now I'm thinking how to stat Grievous. I'm kinda feeling WS 5 to fit with the "better than average, not beyond human imagining" power level he seems to have. S4 from the robot suit. T4 for sure. I...5? Or maybe I4 with an ability to drop the opponent's initiative in close combat to represent them not being able to get an opening in?

I'm thinking 3 wounds (didn't it take 3 blaster shots to finish him off ) and 3 attacks (to be fair he's mainly using the extra sabers to parry and block). Now maybe something like a 4+ armor save with a 4++ dodge?

I honestly don't even know...I feel like he should be able to shred stuff that isn't great in close combat, but he isn't nearly on the same level as the close combat greats of the 40k universe (or even the star wars universe).

 dementedwombat wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
Well s:user for a lightsaber wouldn't really make sense since it will cut through a tree just as easy no matter how much force you put into it and no matter who wields it. I would say s:7 since its power isnt really affected by the wielders physical strength just skill with a blade. I say strength 7 also since its made of plasma and the 40k's plasma is considered to be s7

Well, this is where we get into the ambiguities of the strength/armor save system. I personally would settle for putting it on S4 models and giving the weapon armorbane as a property to represent its "super choppy-ness".

And now I'm thinking how to stat Grievous. I'm kinda feeling WS 5 to fit with the "better than average, not beyond human imagining" power level he seems to have. S4 from the robot suit. T4 for sure. I...5? Or maybe I4 with an ability to drop the opponent's initiative in close combat to represent them not being able to get an opening in?

I'm thinking 3 wounds (didn't it take 3 blaster shots to finish him off ) and 3 attacks (to be fair he's mainly using the extra sabers to parry and block). Now maybe something like a 4+ armor save with a 4++ dodge?

I honestly don't even know...I feel like he should be able to shred stuff that isn't great in close combat, but he isn't nearly on the same level as the close combat greats of the 40k universe (or even the star wars universe).

He did hold off 3 Jedi masters and at least 3 padawans, and killed a detachment of ARC troopers (Clone trooper Equivalent of IG stormtroopers) all at once before Mace Windu crushed his lungs , other than that I agree with all of the stats given by everyone and thanks for all of the info on lightsabers/power swords lots of stuff I didn't know

Not on par? A pre-Coruscant invasion Grievous is capable of defeating 5 Jedi simultaneously, and not complete randoms either, he beat Aayla Secura, Shaak Ti, Ki-Adi-Mundi, K'krukh and... some other guy, i think he was Ki-Adi-Mundi's padawan, (ok, 1 complete random) in the battle of Hypori. Besting 4 Jedi masters and 1 padawan is no mere feat.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Not on par? A pre-Coruscant invasion Grievous is capable of defeating 5 Jedi simultaneously.

Indeed, he was made to kill Jedi. I expect if Star Wars used 40k rules, he'd be in the kharn range of stats, no gorechild.. actually he'd be the abaddon of the droid forces faction haha

Ok, to be fair I was pretty much basing my assessment off the movie, and to the best of my (rather limited) understanding he wasn't exactly in 100% condition at that point in time.

I just figured he was "2nd tier" i.e. "minor named character" status and tried to stat him up accordingly. Also in 40k terms I kinda figured a Brood Lord would be about as dangerous as your average Jedi in close combat

And to be fair not being force sensitive at all really hurts the guy. We can't give him any psychic powers!

 dementedwombat wrote:
Ok, to be fair I was pretty much basing my assessment off the movie, and to the best of my (rather limited) understanding he wasn't exactly in 100% condition at that point in time.

I just figured he was "2nd tier" i.e. "minor named character" status and tried to stat him up accordingly.

And to be fair not being force sensitive at all really hurts the guy. We can't give him any psychic powers!

I know what you mean, the films don't do him justice as a character. A good look at him is the old cartoon network cartoons, not the new ones. The lack of the force is an interesting point because that was always something that irked him as he fought more Jedi, he had such a huge grudge and just couldn't perfect his revenge.

In the films a lightsaber is capable of cutting through any material, but is shown to be slowed down when cutting through doors at times. I don't believe this is explained and I think the portrayal of the weapon is somewhat inconsistent. The expanded universe features many materials that are resistant or disruptive to lightsabers. Cortosis and Mandalorian Iron are probably the most well known of these materials.

Here is a list:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Armorweave
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_weapon
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_iron
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Neuranium
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Orbalisk
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_alchemy (Can be used to make materials Lightsaber resistant)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Songsteel
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Phrik
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ultrachrome



If I was designing a Star Wars game utilizing the Warhammer and WH40K d6 systems I would have Lightsabers ignore armor saves and wound automatically. Only defenders wielding lightsabers, special weapons (Cortosis-Weave, etc), or utilizing special armor would be allowed to take an armor save against them.

In the case of Jedi specifically I would treat a standard Jedi Knight as such:

WS: 5 BS: 4 S: 3 T: 3 W: 3 I: 5 A: 3 LD: 9 Armor Save: 6+ (Robes) Invulnerable Save: 5+ (Jedi Reflexes) Psyker Level: 2

Special Rule: Blaster Bolt Deflection. Jedi Knights excel at deflecting blaster bolts. They may add their Psyker Level to their invulnerable save roll. In the case of a Jedi Knight this would result in a 3+ save against ranged attacks.

 trexmeyer wrote:
In the films a lightsaber is capable of cutting through any material, but is shown to be slowed down when cutting through doors at times. I don't believe this is explained and I think the portrayal of the weapon is somewhat inconsistent. The expanded universe features many materials that are resistant or disruptive to lightsabers. Cortosis and Mandalorian Iron are probably the most well known of these materials.

Here is a list:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Armorweave
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_weapon
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_iron
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Neuranium
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Orbalisk
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_alchemy (Can be used to make materials Lightsaber resistant)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Songsteel
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Phrik
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ultrachrome



If I was designing a Star Wars game utilizing the Warhammer and WH40K d6 systems I would have Lightsabers ignore armor saves and wound automatically. Only defenders wielding lightsabers, special weapons (Cortosis-Weave, etc), or utilizing special armor would be allowed to take an armor save against them.

In the case of Jedi specifically I would treat a standard Jedi Knight as such:

WS: 5 BS: 4 S: 3 T: 3 W: 3 I: 5 A: 3 LD: 9 Armor Save: 6+ (Robes) Invulnerable Save: 5+ (Jedi Reflexes) Psyker Level: 2

Special Rule: Blaster Bolt Deflection. Jedi Knights excel at deflecting blaster bolts. They may add their Psyker Level to their invulnerable save roll. In the case of a Jedi Knight this would result in a 3+ save against ranged attacks.

That part about using the mastery level to deflect blaster bolts, perfect, because a padawan would obviously have less deflection training and force training than a knight, thus having a lower mastery and invuln.

Well, movie Grievous was grievously injured by Mace Windu and was fighting Obi-Wan, a master of a defensive lightsabre form designed to fight multiple opponents and wait until they made a mistake, pretty much the perfect form for fighting the multi-limbed and non-force sensitive Grievous.

I wouldnt make a lightsaber wound automatically. Fleshbane would be more accurate since your not always going to be delivering a particularly maiming or killing blow (see obi-wan vs count dokuu (spelling?) In episode 2)