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 Zande4 wrote:
What could a pure knight list do against Vendetta spam?

Die. A lot.

Knights atm have nothing for anti air vs AV 11/12. Their heavy stubbers might cause a grounding test on an FMC. But vendettas are currently a great counter.

Knights with guard allies to get hydra(s).

Well, Knights look scary on paper. Two or three will be hard to deal with in a non-apo setting.

A 5-6 knight army has a very rock/paper/scissors feel to it for me. It would face roll my buddy's Tau, which would have a very hard time doing much damage to it before they get eaten in assault. His Tau tends to face roll my Necrons with the amount of interceptor and sheer firepower it has, and my Necrons would face roll the Knights with all the Nightscythes that they can't touch and the amount of haywire/gauss/tesla destructors that would probably remove 1-2 Knights a turn.

I can't honestly say that each fight would be all that fun though, which is the problem with r/p/s hard counters.

They look tough, they sound tough, but they are not monstrous creatures people. Play smart and you will beat them. Most armies will beat them in melee, and their shooting isn't even all that impressive. The important thing to remember is they are almost 400 points a model. Expect to lose that many points to each of them you kill and you will be fine.

And to the ork players crying about them. Bring battle wagons, bring stompas, bring nob bikers, bring hiddn pks, you will all be fine. They are easy to drop, remember a roll of a 6 on the vehicle damage chart means you do 1 +D3 hull points of damage to them and you will be fine.

Well, the Knights are a strange unit, a walker with rules of a superheavy.

Remember the apocalyptic explosion when a Knight goes down.

 Zande4 wrote:
What could a pure knight list do against Vendetta spam?

Probably try to position punishes to fire in the back of the vendettas. Rolling for 6's is and then 5 is rough.. but pick up enough handfuls of dice and something might happen.

Might be more of a game than I originally thought.

Regardless I am not sure of how to feel about these models hitting the table.

For what its worth, i actually got to play against an army with 2 knights in it today, and it wasnt too bad.
Granted, i was running necrons, but still managed a win.

They dont get weaker as you damage them, but thats more reason to focus fire on 1 of them until it dies.


Also, remember that they pop.
I thought it was amusing to use crypteks with haywire to kill one 2nd turn.
Granted it worked out damn well, but the explosion did kill the unit in return. (overlord + 4 crypteks)

Gauss drops them like a dream too and the death ray strips HP off them nicely, even better when you drop a shot from it on 1 knight and catch the 2nd also.

Long story short, ive ordered a knight for my guard to tinker with, but this was more because the model looks ace, and even better in person.

In terms of power, they are no pushovers.
They are also not game breakers either.

I honestly rather face 5 of these than i would face 5 riptides since the riptides would cause alot more problems, and are only half the cost.

 Jackal wrote:
For what its worth, i actually got to play against an army with 2 knights in it today, and it wasnt too bad.
Granted, i was running necrons, but still managed a win.

They dont get weaker as you damage them, but thats more reason to focus fire on 1 of them until it dies.


Also, remember that they pop.
I thought it was amusing to use crypteks with haywire to kill one 2nd turn.
Granted it worked out damn well, but the explosion did kill the unit in return. (overlord + 4 crypteks)

Gauss drops them like a dream too and the death ray strips HP off them nicely, even better when you drop a shot from it on 1 knight and catch the 2nd also.

Long story short, ive ordered a knight for my guard to tinker with, but this was more because the model looks ace, and even better in person.

In terms of power, they are no pushovers.
They are also not game breakers either.

I honestly rather face 5 of these than i would face 5 riptides since the riptides would cause alot more problems, and are only half the cost.

5 Riptides in the same points range as 5 Knight is also a garbage build, though. Your run-of-the-mill top tier Tau player brings 2-3.

The knights are gonna make playing deathstars with a re-rollable 2++ a calculated risk. If it works, great, if you get nuked and your silly saves don't work, tears.

Any hoot, if the Knights take over the game scene, I'll bet we we will see a resurgence of DE, which I think counter Knights rather well, Meltas, etc.

Please keep an eye out for people fielding 5 knights. They have a taste for cheese; They cannot be reasoned with.

Just a quick one, but ive seen a ton of people say taking 5 as an army would be cheese.
Usually people would only say this when its something amazing being spammed (old lash oblit build springs to mind)

How many people here have actually faced a full knight build?
2 were fairly easy to bring down, and the rest of the army was actually causing more of an issue than they were.
So, to face 5 with nothing else backing them, it should be fairly easy.

I'd say they are fairly balanced as a unit choice, so nothing over the top.

Which is why im laughing at people saying its WAAC and cheese, because its hardly a power build by any means.

Granted, tons of people will still run the build, but i would say its down to fluff and looks rather than power.
Any well rounded tournament army will steam through a knight list pretty quickly.



Obsidian - I was just giving an example of the level they play at.
1 to 1 i rather face a knight as i know ranged weapons go through its armour easily.
Even against its shield, it makes it no more annoying that a riptide.

Riptides just seem far more annoying since they can soak a fair amount of melta and missile fire and laugh about it.
A knight will start to fall pretty quickly.



I do feel sorry for daemons though, and i think ill try to avoid playing them against a knight unless i can help it.
CC is the only way to bring them down, and im then faced with a D weapon in return.

 Jackal wrote:
Just a quick one, but ive seen a ton of people say taking 5 as an army would be cheese.
Usually people would only say this when its something amazing being spammed (old lash oblit build springs to mind)

How many people here have actually faced a full knight build?
2 were fairly easy to bring down, and the rest of the army was actually causing more of an issue than they were.
So, to face 5 with nothing else backing them, it should be fairly easy.

I'd say they are fairly balanced as a unit choice, so nothing over the top.

Which is why im laughing at people saying its WAAC and cheese, because its hardly a power build by any means.

m


Spoken like someone who pre-ordered 6 Knights. Didn't happen? Am I assuming too much? Well, perhaps you are, too.

Being WAAC or cheeseburgering doesn't equate to success, as you appear to assume it does. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite. Cheese is spamming one thing believing it to be the end all answer to your problems. Other examples would be 3 Heldrakes, 9 vendettas, etc. WAAC is just that. Such as being as uncreative as possible, grabbing the most powerful things you can find, all while disregarding your reputation (better referred to as you ability to find future matches). Taking 5 Knights to a game is perhaps the cheesiest most uncreative thing I have ever comprehended. Please explain how it's not.

Actually, i ordered 1 to paint up since i like the model.
Dont even own an imperial army it can ally or go with.
So very far from the mark actually.

I'd say that if that was the limits of your predictions, go with the complete opposite in future.

Now, your examples are lovely and all, but they truly are strong builds that cause issues for alot of players.
Might as well throw in triple riptide and necron air while your at it too.

For the points cost, knights really do under perform and you can take the same points and invest them in much stronger units if you want to be WAAC.
Much like your examples above, since each of those is highly effective and the strength from them is pretty much unmatched in their own codex.
Which is what makes it such a strong build, because points to power, you are about as good as you can get.

Cheese does not refer to spamming the same units, as full grot armies or heavily themed ones would also be classed as cheese.
Cheese refers to spamming a strong unit or build to max out on the effect it can have.

Also, its kind of funny really since you think cheese is spamming the same unit.
How can you NOT spam the same type of unit when you have the choice of 2 knights in the codex?

I'd go out, play a few games against them and see how you get on, because they really are nothing special or game breaking.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

draegen wrote:
If you get steam rolled, then your list obviously sucked... I've been steam rolled plenty of times, does it suck? Yep, it sure does, but it never stopped me from improving my lists and beating them, forcing them to change their "unbeatable list"....

Name a way for orks to deal with superheavies in standard 40k or get the feth out.

Just you wait... next codex we'll have stompas........ Hopefully

I plan on getting a couple of them to run with my Warhound Titan in Apoc games. I think they'll look cool next to the Warhound, and will fit in nicely.

The knights themselves are fine tbh. If they have str D on their ranged weapons then I might have a problem with them. As it stands though, they are durable, but not overly so at 13/12/12. Their damage output is just ok for their points cost. 2 battle cannon shots for 375 points....well IG can get that for under 300.

My issue with them, is that for the entire game more than half on an average TAC list will have nothing to do. When you are only faced with 5 AV13/12 walkers, anything without str 6 or more has no chance at hurting them, and even then this needs to be on their flanks or rear.

For the whole game most troop choices and non-anti tank options will have to sit in cover, go to ground, and try to stay away from the knights and attempt to hold or contest the objectives. This to me seems a little unfair, and dull.

If you are making the best knights list you can think of, then I'd keep the infantry off the board, and use this to your advantage. So far the knights + SM flyers seems like an awful list to face. Just don't expect to make friends lol.