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Dessorag wrote:
Under transport capacity, page 99, second sentence. "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must disembark. " if that doesn't mean "the doors open when you land" I really don't know what would.

So what rule covers blowing hatches?

It's poor form to state multiple times that the codex explicitly states something and then be unable to quote the explicit statement.

"Oath of War: Wolf Priests lead their charges in a solemn oath to slay their chosen foe..."

Does that mean if a Wolf Priest isn't the first model I move when charging with a unit I'm breaking the rules?

How, exactly, is intentionally blocking LOS not MFA?

One does not need rules for "how to blow the hatches" just like you don't need a rule for how plamaguns work. All you need to know is that you pull the trigger and they fire, or the vehicle lands and it opens.

I would agree that it is intended, if not perfectly that the doors on the hatch open when the drop pod lands.

 w0lfgang7 wrote:
How, exactly, is intentionally blocking LOS not MFA?

Is moving a Land Raider with its doors in the way to intentionally block line of sight also MFA?

 w0lfgang7 wrote:
How, exactly, is intentionally blocking LOS not MFA?

Just like moving a vehicle to block LOS is MFA?
How can you possibly justify your statement? If I glue the hatches shut because they're far easier to transport and deal with on the field that way, I must be modeling for advantage? There's no other reason?

One does not need rules for "how to blow the hatches" just like you don't need a rule for how plamaguns work. All you need to know is that you pull the trigger and they fire, or the vehicle lands and it opens.

Plasma guns have rules defining how they work in the game.
Cite rules for blowing hatches in the game.

You don't need to know how the hatches open, you just need to know that they do open when it lands. What does "blow the hatches" mean? Open the hatches! Text from the codex is already cited above. What you're asking for is how specifically that they open. That question is utely irrelevant. Just like it's irrelevant how specifically a storm raven can disembark models that don't have jump packs etc so that it's still considered an assault vehicle. It's irrelevant. You simply need to know that it is, not how it is. How is it possible that a splinter rifle effects mutiple species with different dna/biology in the same way? It doesnt matter, the question is irrelevant. This is why you only need to know, as previously quoted above in black and white on page 99 when it says that "once the DP has landed, the hatcheS" plural, not singular, not the selected ones, but the collectives doors, aka hatches on the DP open.

A land raider or any other ground vehicle is a solid mass that by itself blocks LOS. Get out and the doors shut so that it can keep moving like our modern day 2k tanks/APCs block LOS after the troops get out. Why woulnt one from 40k do the same thing? A DP is done moving post deployment and after that its hatches hinder the weapon inside. They're in the way so they're opened to get out of the way. Just as described in the text. Any question about land raiders being MFA is just being obstinate, or misquoting me out of the context of the DP question at hand. Even if you leave the doors open on a land raider where the models got out, what is still true? The doors where no models got out are still closed. So LOS is still blocked. No, moving a vehicle is not MFA, let's not be silly. But gluing something shut, and counting it as shut on the table when you know full well that they are supposed to be open post deployment is MFA. If you glue a turret in place for mideling/transport reasons do you still treat it as an appropriate turret on the table? Yes. Same thing with a models arms and DP doors.

I can understand gluing them shut for modeling reasons, especially post paint, but to not to count it as open on the table as written is MFA. Why? Simple. Let's walk through it. Do I know that the doors open after it lands? Yes. Do i know how they open? Not exactly. Does it matter that i dont know how they open? No. Is it advantageous for me to leave them shut in order to protect my other models? Yes. And there you go; you can stop asking questions right there because the exact definition of MFA has been used in the explanation of why one would count the doors as up.

Thanks for the mental exercise. Remember to have fun out there!

 w0lfgang7 wrote:
You don't need to know how the hatches open, you just need to know that they do open when it lands. What does "blow the hatches" mean? Open the hatches! Text from the codex is already cited above. What you're asking for is how specifically that they open. That question is utely irrelevant. Just like it's irrelevant how specifically a storm raven can disembark models that don't have jump packs etc so that it's still considered an assault vehicle. It's irrelevant. You simply need to know that it is, not how it is. How is it possible that a splinter rifle effects mutiple species with different dna/biology in the same way? It doesnt matter, the question is irrelevant. This is why you only need to know, as previously quoted above in black and white on page 99 when it says that "once the DP has landed, the hatcheS" plural, not singular, not the selected ones, but the collectives doors, aka hatches on the DP open.

The rule does not say the hatches open. Please stop saying it does.
Where, in the rules, does it tell you what "blow the hatches" means? I see your definition, but your definition is irrelevant.

I can understand gluing them shut for modeling reasons, especially post paint, but to not to count it as open on the table as written is MFA. Why? Simple. Let's walk through it. Do I know that the doors open after it lands? Yes. Do i know how they open? Not exactly. Does it matter that i dont know how they open? No. Is it advantageous for me to leave them shut in order to protect my other models? Yes. And there you go; you can stop asking questions right there because the exact definition of MFA has been used in the explanation of why one would count the doors as up.

No, I don't know that the doors open after it lands. It is possible - trivial actually - to block LoS with a pod that has been built with opening doors, so counting it as always giving a cover save is incorrect.

Wolfgang - you appear to not be able to cite rules correctly. The written rules do not instruct you to open the doors. At all. Please do not repeat a lie as if it is fact.

Dessorag wrote:
Under transport capacity, page 9, second sentence. "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must disembark."

So what does the dex say if not this? If "blow the hatches" doesn't mean open the hatchets (plural), then what does it mean? A hatch is a door, period. I've spent enough time around the Navy and sailors to know that is an irrefutable fact. Besides, what hatches does a DP have other than the doors? None. So blow the doors means the same thing as blow the hatch. When you blow a door what do you do? You forcefully open a door that was closed. Blow the hatches means open the door. Its not that hard to understand since it is the only way that the phrase has ever been used.

(Sorry dex is at home, so if the sentence reads differently then my bust. But if it reads this exactly then the reasoning and logic that follow it are a sound. Similarly, if it is in the dex as quoted then text for opening the hatches is in the dex whereas text for being allowed to arbitrarily choose which ones to open or leave closed is not. Finally, if it is in the dex as cited, then stating it, as others have done, is expressly NOT a lie but just a part of the dex that you don't like and/or disagree with.)

BUT

Irregardless, the argument is that everyone must count closed doors as closed. OK. Let's work with that.

Have you glued all of the doors shut?

If yes, then according to that logic/argument, the DP's controlling player, and whatever/whoever is inside the DP must remain inside because the doors are shut.

If no, you only glued some or all but one shut, and then upon placing the DP on the table you turn the pod so that the open door is facing away from some part of the enemy force in order to put a wall between them instead of an open door, then why did you model it that way? "I am MODELING my pods that way FOR the purpose of gaining the ADVANTAGE of blocking line of site so that my models don't get shot to bits after I land."

-----

Ultimately, we just need to get jobs at GW, replace the rules/FAQ staff, and write rules that are actually clear, listen to the community and release meaningful and timely updates.

 w0lfgang7 wrote:

Dessorag wrote:
Under transport capacity, page 9, second sentence. "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must disembark."

So what does the dex say if not this? If "blow the hatches" doesn't mean open the hatchets (plural), then what does it mean? A hatch is a door, period. I've spent enough time around the Navy and sailors to know that is an irrefutable fact. Besides, what hatches does a DP have other than the doors? None. So blow the doors means the same thing as blow the hatch. When you blow a door what do you do? You forcefully open a door that was closed. Blow the hatches means open the door. Its not that hard to understand since it is the only way that the phrase has ever been used.

The verb "blow: has a number of definitions, including one of a sexual nature (at least in America, don't know about the rest of the world). Fluff-wise, yes, powerful explosives built into the Pod, forcibly cause the doors to open allowing the passengers to disembark.

Have you glued all of the doors shut?

If yes, then according to that logic/argument, the DP's controlling player, and whatever/whoever is inside the DP must remain inside because the doors are shut.

So does that mean my Eldar can never disembark from their Serpents or Falcons, because I glued the doors shut? What about my brothers Rhinos, Razorbacks and Land Raiders. He glued those doors shut, Does that mean his Space Marines can never disembark?

If no, you only glued some or all but one shut, and then upon placing the DP on the table you turn the pod so that the open door is facing away from some part of the enemy force in order to put a wall between them instead of an open door, then why did you model it that way? "I am MODELING my pods that way FOR the purpose of gaining the ADVANTAGE of blocking line of site so that my models don't get shot to bits after I land."[/quote'

If you only glued some of the doors shut I would have to wonder. Of course some of the glue I've used in the past eventually gave way, so there is a possibility the Pod was originally assembled with the doors glued shut and over time the glue weakened and some of the doors came unglued. Though in that case, it is more than likely the interior was not fully assembled or painted.

w0lfgang7 wrote:
So what does the dex say if not this? If "blow the hatches" doesn't mean open the hatchets (plural), then what does it mean?

It does say that, and it does mean the hatches open when the pod lands.

But unless you're actually dropping your pod model from orbit, it's a piece of fluff. It is no more a requirement to open the doors on the model than a reference to a bolt round would mean that you are required to actually fire explosive projectiles from your model's weapon in the shooting phase.

There is no requirement anywhere in the vehicle rules for doors on the vehicle to physically open for embarked models to climb out.


And just FYI:

Irregardless, ...

..is not a word.

(Sorry, pet peeve )

Well, irregardless, I fully support any marine players modelling tiny explosives on their drop pods that go off when they drop them onto the table from the ceiling.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Well, irregardless, I fully support any marine players modelling tiny explosives on their drop pods that go off when they drop them onto the table from the ceiling.

Or Pneumatics, as you can Blow the Hatches with air pressure, or any pressurized gas, as well...

(Why does it say that I spelled Pneumatics incorrectly? It has the red line, stupid spell check...).

GW seems to be on a random-roll kick lately (warlord traits, psyker abilities, whatever else). Watch that whenever they get around to "clearing this up" they turn it into something random to "increase the narrative" of the story with the unreliability of the mechanics used to "blow the hatches." So it becomes something like "after placing the DP on the table roll a d6 for each hatch. On a 3+ the hatch opens."