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Garreth Hunt brought 9 Thudd Guns with Inquisition support to LVO, lost to Adam Tricolla's Beastpack in the final 8

To be fair, i can list the things that went wrong with that game:


Night fighting
Incredibly good warlord trait by opponent
opponent got fortune on eldrad
only 2 wounds on eldrad turn 1
only 1 vendetta came on turn 2 (and so he couldnt kill the wraithknight, which was a huge deal since 50 TL lasguns at the pack does an average 15 wounds before saves)
Blob got a 8 roll with ld 7 due to 'lowest ld' warlord trait so he killed the entire blob in 1 round of combat.

The guard list really wasnt all that great either. Yes, thudd guns are great, but why take a blob with no azreal or anything to buff survivability?

Getting an angle on the beast pack can be done with outflankers and the like to reduce its girth.

But here is how i have defeated beaststars: I let them kill everything. Unless it is a strictly kill point mission, this generally works.

With this strategy, you bread crumb them into the farthest corner of the board and let them sit there merrily killing. While they do i sneak up from the rear and sides and work the objectives.

The trouble with killing things is that it's not actually the objective in most missions. So if you deploy the minimum amount, give the beast pack a clear direction and use movement and running to make the distances long as possible even at the expense of shooting, then the forces of the enemy will simply be out of position to do much about the ds and outflanking units.

Also: this requires that your army be ultra flexible from a deployment point of view. If it is not, then there's not much that can be done to help.

Necrons can use their Flayed ones and flyers to reserve and get way past the beast star and make forward progress by them unwise.

Think of it as a game of keep away. you want the beast pack either TOO FAR upfield to ever stop the other units coming in OR you want the beast pack stuckl in the middle, vascillating over which way to go. Maybe even feed them a unit mid board to keep them there.

I cannot illustrate this on a forum that well, but I have beaten this kind of venomspam +Beaststar list using this formula.

As for Necrons, i DO like that Monolith idea. I like the idea of Flayed ones. I like the idea of croissants. all of them can force the beastpack to an area where they can do the least good.

Now I use a beastpack myself but its not the tool'd up version. it's fast and mean ansd doesn't cost me 500 points or whatever to pull off.

Barrages are also useful for getting past the "guy in front". Really any tactic or unit that can get behind that "shield" is worth looking into.

 zephoid wrote:
To be fair, i can list the things that went wrong with that game:


Night fighting
Incredibly good warlord trait by opponent
opponent got fortune on eldrad
only 2 wounds on eldrad turn 1
only 1 vendetta came on turn 2 (and so he couldnt kill the wraithknight, which was a huge deal since 50 TL lasguns at the pack does an average 15 wounds before saves)
Blob got a 8 roll with ld 7 due to 'lowest ld' warlord trait so he killed the entire blob in 1 round of combat.

The guard list really wasnt all that great either. Yes, thudd guns are great, but why take a blob with no azreal or anything to buff survivability?

Sure. Of course you can also argue Adam's beastpack wasn't ideal (which it wasn't) and that plenty of things went right. It wasn't night fight, which was a huge advantage for the Thudguns, and that Warlord Trait arguably worked against Adam. And an Azrael Blob would have been better, because it would have let the Beastpack hide in combat and bounce in an out of multi assaults using HnR. A Thudspam Army can beat a Beastpack for sure, but it's hardly an easy counter as was suggested.

The game, btw. http://www.rumorsofheresy.blogspot.com/2014/02/adam-tricola-takes-beaststar-to-lvo_25.html

 anonymou5 wrote:

 ruminator wrote:
Tyranid FMCs can work - can't be assualted and SITW can force the farseer to fail their powers. Also deathleaper can pay dividends in this match up - farseer on leadership 5 or 6 is not making too many tests ...

Getting first turn and alpha-striking can work as well as you hit the unit before psychic powers are up. Drop pods, especially wolves with JAWS are especially good at this. A white scar all scouting bike army can shoot the unit up as well. Maybe look to take inquisition and coteaz to try and balance out the Baron in getting that first turn.

5 Grey Hunters in pods could possibly do it with first turn, but with their Bolters. Jaws has to get through a 4 or 2 up DTW, then kill things at I5 and I6. Not happening.

TMCs have to get within 12 inches of the psychers (who will be at the back), who will have Runes or Venoms for rerolls, they have to survive Serpent/WK/Venom/Warp Spider/War Walker fire both before and after they charge.... I don't think that's a good match.

The secret is speed and volume of fire (or Zandreck). So Ravenwing, Venomspam, etc. Haha

You have to be careful with Tyranids though. The Flyrants can (with Skyblight) eliminate almost that entire Beaststar in the first round of shooting if you leave them in range.

flying Daemon Princes with flickering fire can positively blister that unit.

 Jancoran wrote:
flying Daemon Princes with flickering fire can positively blister that unit.

They have to get through a rerollable 4 plus deny the witch before they even get to shoot it.

That's without runes as well. Its really not going to happen. As for the other poster saying they tempt the beast pack player into a corner a good beast pack player uses tje board control and wont fall for that

Best way I've found to take out beast pack is to get rid of the Baron first. Thankfully Necrons can allow in Grey Knights so grab Coteaz, cheap henchmen and a Vindicare Assassin. 1 Wound removes the shadowfield (due to the Vindicare's special ammo) and it cannot be LOS'ed. Once the baron is down/weakened, send scarabs in to tarpit the unit. In the case of Eldrad and the Farseer, pick them off one at a time too if they get free somehow.

 anonymou5 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
flying Daemon Princes with flickering fire can positively blister that unit.

They have to get through a rerollable 4 plus deny the witch before they even get to shoot it.

Yup. I didn't say it wouldn't be a game, now did I?

But when it goes off, it's like 11-15 almost guaranteed hits and is withering.

 Jancoran wrote:

 anonymou5 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
flying Daemon Princes with flickering fire can positively blister that unit.

They have to get through a rerollable 4 plus deny the witch before they even get to shoot it.

Yup. I didn't say it wouldn't be a game, now did I?

But when it goes off, it's like 11-15 almost guaranteed hits and is withering.

So assuming no runes every fourth time your Prince fires it goes through. Averages 14 shots, 12 hits, 11 wounds 5.5 saved on the first 4++, 2.75 saved on the second 4++. Failed toughness test, 2 more wounds, 1 saved then .5 saved

In four turns one gunboat prince will do 3.25 wounds. Not a good approach lo

I play Circus, I wouldn't waste my time trying to use FF

Unless you kill the Psyker.

Theres usually two. Good luck with that!.

Tank shock with multiple land raiders using the "Crunch" rule from the BRB

Vindicare on the baron.

OR THE ONE THING THAT SOLVES ALL THIS DEATH STAR BS. NO MORE BATTLE BROTHERS IN TOURNAMENTS!!!!!
Without the Eldar the baron+beast unit isn't worth much.

Some one will likely respond with Screamerstar but screamerstar is crap and easy to tie up.

and... we now return to reality where Battle Brothers exist.

Kisada II wrote:
OR THE ONE THING THAT SOLVES ALL THIS DEATH STAR BS. NO MORE BATTLE BROTHERS IN TOURNAMENTS!!!!!
Without the Eldar the baron+beast unit isn't worth much.

Some one will likely respond with Screamerstar but screamerstar is crap and easy to tie up.

Not entirely true. The beast star looses a bit of durability with the loss of fortune but still keeps the key components of 4++, large footprint, and HnR.

Jet seer council would also be entirely doable as they still have a source of HnR in their own codex. They loose the 2++ rerollable invulnerable but that usually didn't last anyways and risking the baron to tank wounds wasn't always the best idea.

Funnily enough I agree that screamer star is junk and easy enough to work around but it is also the one that hurts the game the most as it is considered iconic not fun to play against as it is all 2+ invulnerable saves. The seer council's 2++ rerollable for example can be shot around using barrage, etc.

Barrage weapons are just so good in 6E, don't you agree. they solve a lot of problems.

Honestly I feel like the best and quickest way which also works on multiple other deathstars is a Necron Monoliths vacuum cleaner.

Straight forward, simple, easy to use better than a Dyson.

Everyone keepslisting all these could haves and really it's right there in the list and a incredible vehicle and resource. You can use Barges to give it a cover save if you are worried about it.

You can deep strike it.

It servesa dual purpose as well since it can move at Cruising speed.

Seriously, just take a Monolith it's the easiest solution to low strength units that have rerollable invulnerable saves.

Its just that easy!

Sounds like a guy selling stuff on tv...but so true. A ballsy deep strike aaaaaaand... slurp.

And you kill a random model or two that are within d6 inches... Not the most effective way to kill it.

Break out the D-blasts, much easier

Easier and lazier

 ansacs wrote:

Kisada II wrote:
OR THE ONE THING THAT SOLVES ALL THIS DEATH STAR BS. NO MORE BATTLE BROTHERS IN TOURNAMENTS!!!!!
Without the Eldar the baron+beast unit isn't worth much.

Some one will likely respond with Screamerstar but screamerstar is crap and easy to tie up.

Not entirely true. The beast star looses a bit of durability with the loss of fortune but still keeps the key components of 4++, large footprint, and HnR.

Jet seer council would also be entirely doable as they still have a source of HnR in their own codex. They loose the 2++ rerollable invulnerable but that usually didn't last anyways and risking the baron to tank wounds wasn't always the best idea.

Funnily enough I agree that screamer star is junk and easy enough to work around but it is also the one that hurts the game the most as it is considered iconic not fun to play against as it is all 2+ invulnerable saves. The seer council's 2++ rerollable for example can be shot around using barrage, etc.

Baron is also giving the seer council stealth and grenades the stealth lets them get the 2+ potentially rerollable cover save. The loss of defensive grenades makes them a bit easier to hurt as well. Baron's hit and run is rerollable (though it shouldn't be since it says unit of hellions) making it a sure thing really. So no 2++ no 2+ cover no defensive grenades! no rerollable hit and run, without the Baron seer star is taken down considerably.

Now for the beast pack, no Eldar means poor leadership, no psychic defense and no rerollable saves. This unit has been played since 6th Ed came out, it's good but not broken. Some people even through vect in there to fix the leadership issue but the dogs die pretty quick to bolster fire and the Baron only needs about 6 wounds on him before he'll fail and loose his 2++, can't afford to tank with vect because if you loose fearless and ld 10 the unit gets in trouble fast.

Wait so Barons wargear gives him a 2++ invul right?

It seems to best way to neuter the star is to send in the vinidcare assassin and shield breaker it.

as well with GK, you still have access to fun time grenades that can mess em up in CC like reducing there CC attacks to 1 or even more fun make em attack them selves.

yup. I gacve the same advice to someone whose dealing with the Imperial Knights.

I've killed the beast pack before but I used some cleaver deployment against it.

drop pod, vulkhan, command squad, all armed with flamers and storm shields with the apoc.

dropped in and flamed a bunch of the beasts, then they charged in taking 4*D3 flamer hits + D3 Heavy flamer hits

then in CC vulkhan goes first thiniing out the number of potential return attacks.

then over 3 turns kill the unit piecemeal while funneling them down the coridor I created with the pod and a building.

Necrons could also use the Despairtek with Deathmarks. If you take two Lord's you can have one unit within one unit.

The core of the beast pack is the 25 kymera with a 4++ reroll on their invo.

Ignore cover/armor doesn't do anything for the rerolled 4++ invo.

A good beastpack player will be at maximum 2" coherency if youre packing thudd guns/tfc. Expect to get about 8 wounds on an average hit which comes to 2 dead beasts.

Nids have a good counter, and a rune priest or fiends can shut down the farseers for a turn. Beyond that you just need to literally inflict 100 wounds to drop 25 t3 bodies plus another 36 wounds against the baron who is t3 to break his 2++ rerollable unless you avoid the baron. Then it's just 5 beastmasters and some hq.

Misfortune would also negate the rerolls, but the pack has a lvl 3 dtw.