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As it seems from recently GT's, the beastpack army seems on top of the world. Since killing the unit is generally not an option much like the screamer star, what would be the most cost effective way to tie it up in combat? I love the idea of using Necrons with Nemesor Zahndrehk to remove hit and run that the baron grants, but what unit could hold the beast pack the longest for the least amount of points? I am open to using any of the Necron allies to get the job done. Have at it DAKKA DAKKA!

Fight fire with fire.

or daemon corndogs i think could work too. (lots of wounds and generally tough as nails)

I like the idea of using Nemesor though.

Vacuum them up with a monolith?

 Desubot wrote:
Fight fire with fire.

or daemon corndogs i think could work too. (lots of wounds and generally tough as nails)

I like the idea of using Nemesor though.

Sadly not, DI hurts and they will get ground down after a while, plus the beast pack can just hit and run off it.

Nemesor is the best gurenteed way to get rid fo hit and run, but then you need a resilient hopefully fearless unit to tie the council down. My first thoughts is Dragio with Paladins, why? fearless and 2+ saves and mutli wounds, the beast pack usually has little to no AP in there (Eldrad being ap3 and force though). But then its a lot of points, if tailoring purely to fight beast pack, its probably the best idea, but in a tourny you probably wont get to face one as Tau will smash face against palalies.

The other option is Telepathy tree, Terrify to make them not fearless and try and beat them then run them down, Halliuncation to hopefully get the cant move or shoot result. But then they have a lvl 3 or 4 (farseer or Eldrad) and re roll from fortune and runes of warding to boost the deny, thats a slim chance.

Also something I have heard of working, the Masque, and selecting the move and run d3 inches only option. Another good way to limit their board control which is what they thrive on.

How would typhus with 35 plague zombies work with the fnp and being fearless?

For a start, theres up to 100 ws5 prescienced attacks coming at you when the beast pack charge just from the beasts. That will take care of a lot of the, secondly, the beast pack can just hit and run out of combat.

What is exactly protecting that from shooting though?

MarkyMark wrote:
For a start, theres up to 100 ws5 prescienced attacks coming at you when the beast pack charge just from the beasts. That will take care of a lot of the, secondly, the beast pack can just hit and run out of combat.

I will be using Nemesor Zahndrehk to remove hit and run. I just need advise on what could lock it in combat that is allies of Necrons.

more then one unit of zombies, probably 2 or 3 units. But then you have to worry about hum getting terrify.....

MarkyMark wrote:
more then one unit of zombies, probably 2 or 3 units. But then you have to worry about hum getting terrify.....

I guess I could always take obyron attached to a squad of 3 spyders with a gloom prism next to the zombies for a 4+ deny the witch and deepstrike fun.

Is the beast pack better than a seer council? Mind posting the GT winning list?

 lambsandlions wrote:
Is the beast pack better than a seer council? Mind posting the GT winning list?

This is the beastpack list (1850)

Primary
HQ
Eldrad Ulthran
Farseer, Shard of Anaris, Eldar Jetbike, Runes of Witnessing, Runes of Warding, Singing Spear

Troops
3 Windrider Jetbikes
3 Windrider Jetbikes
3 Windrider Jetbikes
3 Windrider Jetbikes

Fast Attack
7 Warp Spiders
7 Warp Spiders

Heavy Support
Wraithknight
Wraithknight

Allied Detachment
HQ
Baron Sathonyx

Troops
5 Kabalite Warriors

Fast Attack
5 Beastmasters, 25 Khymerae

What are the beast packs strength value?

Monolith Vacuum

Dire Wraiths w/ Temporals

I am assuming the disgustingness comes from having a rerollable armor save and all sorts of nastiness. Looks like their fearless as well.

You could always out beast him with Scarab Swarms. Regardless of Beasts type you have cannot move through army.

So for Necrons

1. Monolith Vacuum
2. Dire Wraiths/ Vacuum
3. Scarab Swarm
4. Lighting Shield, Tesla, D3 - to charge range which I forget is called. You can have two units in a army possibly 3 if you sort of abuse the ally matrix. This is a hilarious combo because you lose D3 inches off then they get shocked, which removes the closest models first and you get to shoot them.
5. Deathmarks : name the character, they have sniper put all hits on him. They lose fearless ifyou kill the character.
6. The Character You stated.


That's all I can think of.

Baron has a 2++. Re-rollable via-fortune. So... since he can only be in one place, shoot the unit from another angle. Invul saves on the Kyhmerae are irritating but T3 isn't too difficult to stack wounds onto.

Is the 2++ from wargear?

 Grey Knight Dillon wrote:
Is the 2++ from wargear?

That's the Baron's Shadow Field... that goes bye-bye if it fails once.

Typically, beaststars are little more offensive than Seer council. The Seer council is generally more survivable.

To take out Beaststars, volume of fire, shooting positioning, even try focus firing.

Honestly I think firing at the unit with something that gives a lot of Precision Strikes and picking him would be the way to go for Necrons. He does have a 2 + rerollable though.

2 Ion Riptides did nicely for me whenever I went vs the Beastpack. Seercouncil is scarier, though.

Lucarikx

To deal with beast star you either have to remove HnR and tarpit or kill it with overwhelming firepower or attacks. You also have to keep it from bouncing around combats to avoid your shooting phase.

The beast star is really survivable to high quality firepower but not so much against mass lower quality firepower as it only has 4++ rerollable. If people use the baron to tank then you should smile as you have a chance to remove the most important component of the beast star, HnR.

Here are some options;
Kill the baron w/ vindicare, stacking tons of wounds, etc.

Nemesor and T6+ unit to tarpit/kill the beast star

Tau pulse bomb and remove the support elements

Ravenguard dakka banner and keep from loosing your banner.

Misfortune or other similar to counter fortune. Then open up with your normal anti infantry.

Use 1 assault phase speed bumps that won't survive the assault phase. The removes the benefits of HnR and allows you multiple turns to shoot at them with your normal small arms 12" range.

It is a death star. Kill the support elements. If you kill the scoring then the opponent will not score.

Remove fearless (barrage snipe the shard farseer or terrify) then charge something tough in to win combat and run them down. The beast star doesn't do well against a variety of tough targets (riptides, dreadknights, etc.) and winning combat by 4+ gives a pretty good chance to make them break.

Expose no soft targets so the beast star can only bounce around hard targets. (this is hard to do with most lists).

Ion riptides won't really do that much against a proper beast star but won't have to fear it that much in turn.

Interestingly enough screamer star is a hilarious match up with a beast star and the beast star can essentially bully the seer star into being useless.

 Lucarikx wrote:
2 Ion Riptides did nicely for me whenever I went vs the Beastpack. Seercouncil is scarier, though.

Lucarikx

Riptide builds are amongst the easiest in the game for a beast star. Their ap2 shooting is wasted and they are so big it's not hard for the beasts to wrap the Riptides up in multi assaults and sweep them.

My beasts are much more afraid of fire warriors/kroot with ethereal support than they are of riptides

 anonymou5 wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
2 Ion Riptides did nicely for me whenever I went vs the Beastpack. Seercouncil is scarier, though.

Lucarikx

Riptide builds are amongst the easiest in the game for a beast star. Their ap2 shooting is wasted and they are so big it's not hard for the beasts to wrap the Riptides up in multi assaults and sweep them.

My beasts are much more afraid of fire warriors/kroot with ethereal support than they are of riptides

Oh boy, I'd love to see a Beaststar get within 15'' of a group of FW with a Fireblade and Ethereal. Rain of fire indeed.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 anonymou5 wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
2 Ion Riptides did nicely for me whenever I went vs the Beastpack. Seercouncil is scarier, though.

Lucarikx

Riptide builds are amongst the easiest in the game for a beast star. Their ap2 shooting is wasted and they are so big it's not hard for the beasts to wrap the Riptides up in multi assaults and sweep them.

My beasts are much more afraid of fire warriors/kroot with ethereal support than they are of riptides

Oh boy, I'd love to see a Beaststar get within 15'' of a group of FW with a Fireblade and Ethereal. Rain of fire indeed.

Kind of happens here lol. http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2014/03/10/anonymou5-tournament-report-stones-river/

And part 2 http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2014/03/14/dr-sathonyx-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-death-star-a-tournament-report-part-2/

Mash your screamer star into their beast star for a star mash up.

Tyranid FMCs can work - can't be assualted and SITW can force the farseer to fail their powers. Also deathleaper can pay dividends in this match up - farseer on leadership 5 or 6 is not making too many tests ...

Getting first turn and alpha-striking can work as well as you hit the unit before psychic powers are up. Drop pods, especially wolves with JAWS are especially good at this. A white scar all scouting bike army can shoot the unit up as well. Maybe look to take inquisition and coteaz to try and balance out the Baron in getting that first turn.

 FPSjeremy wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
For a start, theres up to 100 ws5 prescienced attacks coming at you when the beast pack charge just from the beasts. That will take care of a lot of the, secondly, the beast pack can just hit and run out of combat.

I will be using Nemesor Zahndrehk to remove hit and run. I just need advise on what could lock it in combat that is allies of Necrons.

How about a big squad of scarabs. And get 3 spyders to bolster the swarm even more.

That can work, scarabs are fearless and mutliwound. Scarabs can also be a good place to hide nemesor as you need him on the board to take away the hit and run. The problem is as soon as you face Tau and Eldar wave serpents, scarabs die quickly.

The pod idea with wolves, just not enough shots there to do the damage, and Jaws has to get through the aforementioned psyhic defence.

TMC's cannot work IMO, yes you can stop their powers but theres still 25 4++ wounds there not even thinking about the characters, nids dont have enough output to damage them, with the gribbles in CC they are going after the kyhmere so will be greatly reduceded in attack, then beast pack just hit and runs out then re assaults you. There is also usually 2 or 3 Wraithknights in there to distort your TMC's and or wave serpents to force the grounding tests on them.

Screamerstar, unless played well you will just get tied up by the beast pack and they will keep hit and running off you, mutli assault your screamerstar and any other units on the ground, forcing instability checks and further damaging the screamerstar, then if you fail the grimoire its game over.

As I said before its easy enough to tailor a list to beat them but in a TAC list its not so easy and that is what the beast pack thrives on.

I've never fought this match up b4, but it sounds like a job for my Noise Marines

 ruminator wrote:
Tyranid FMCs can work - can't be assualted and SITW can force the farseer to fail their powers. Also deathleaper can pay dividends in this match up - farseer on leadership 5 or 6 is not making too many tests ...

Getting first turn and alpha-striking can work as well as you hit the unit before psychic powers are up. Drop pods, especially wolves with JAWS are especially good at this. A white scar all scouting bike army can shoot the unit up as well. Maybe look to take inquisition and coteaz to try and balance out the Baron in getting that first turn.

5 Grey Hunters in pods could possibly do it with first turn, but with their Bolters. Jaws has to get through a 4 or 2 up DTW, then kill things at I5 and I6. Not happening.

TMCs have to get within 12 inches of the psychers (who will be at the back), who will have Runes or Venoms for rerolls, they have to survive Serpent/WK/Venom/Warp Spider/War Walker fire both before and after they charge.... I don't think that's a good match.

The secret is speed and volume of fire (or Zandreck). So Ravenwing, Venomspam, etc. Haha

Thudd guns all day long. Drop enough barrage hits on them and the units starts coming apart pretty fast. Especially if they dont get fortune. Even with it, you arent allocating to a 2++ and are doing a lot of wounds on them. A battery of 3 does ~20 hits a turn in my experience.

There was a game the weekend, 8 thudd guns against beast pack, it killed quite a few but still didnt stop beast pack player winning. Max spread and terrain helps a lot .