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Some ork players are sniggering at your complaints re the Taurox light armour - have a look at ork trukks' armour 10 on all sides (Seriously, playing Tauroxes rather like trukks would be a good idea tactically.)

Some other ork players are looking at the Taurox kit and thinking that an up-armoured version would make a great Battlewagon model.

The normal Taurox makes me cry, but the upgraded one is pretty cool. I hope the scions aren't replacements for storm troopers, no spec ops, and they lose their CCW. Stormies should be WS4 as well, that would actually make them pretty awesome in melee.

But with Scions having no CCW and the costs for those melee weapons it seems GW wants to smash guard melee into the ground, except for the dedicated units like the ogryns.

Looking at this I could see the Gatling cannon and Hot Shot Volley Gun or twin linked autocannon being the standard build for the prime. Yes they are super fragile, however spamming these like Ork trukks with cheap squads inside (So x5 Scions with x2 melta guns making the entire unit 185pts) would not be a bad idea. Especially if you take into account that apparently you can run a whole army of just these guys if the rumor is true. A light mechanized army with these backed up by Vendettas and Leman Russ battle tanks would be a pretty solid army.

Too soon for tactics...at least for some. We still dont know stats of new hotshot lasgun. From hotshot volley gun I guess S4 AP3 24'' ...rapid fire?
I think its important, especially with FRFSRF, scion unit can theoretically shoot hell of a AP3 shots with mere hotshot lasguns.

Fot the Taurox - I like it. Basic version is cheap transport with TL AC. Prime is IMO beast. Fast, can deliver solid anti infantry punch for the price.

The Taurox is a pretty bad transport. For the ork players "sniggering" they should look at the trukk again; open topped lets you assault from it, 35 pts vs 50 pts, ramshackle, and red paint job upgrade all make the trukk a much better vehicle for it's job.

The only thing this has going for it is the autocannon. With the autocannon it really isn't an aweful vehicle but it demands a gunline approach in an army that franky didn't need any more excuse to turtle up in a corner.

The real killer to this though are the firepoints having facings to the side armour and only two on each side. If this is 50 pts then I cannot imagine what a chimera will be worth, 70-80 pts?

If either vehicle can be taken in an outflanking force then they could be worthwhile to lay S7 fire into side armour while getting the contents into position.


I will be sad if these are the new stormtroopers though. Not that they are actually bad as DS 4 plasma in the prime squad and the cheaper cost per trooper are both nice. They just loose all their flavor and become grenadiers without their special operation rules.

A lot of whether these options are any good will depend on what the new orders are like. The tempestus could be amazing if junior officers get the right orders or FRFSRF applies to hot shots. There will also be a big difference if locator beacons are cheap and plentiful in the new dex. Either way being able to DS 10 BS4 plasmaguns onto the field with a single reserve roll and only use a single FOC slot is pretty powerful.

Pure garbage!

Couple of questions.

1) Why does one transport say 10 models and the other say ten models.

2) Why does it say under the cammands squads options that 4 models can choose from the special weapons list and underneath it say each of the special weapons separate.

I'm calling BS on this one.

As a non-IG player these transports have "KILL ME FIRST" written all over them. Especially the Taurox prime as its more of a threat with its fast + guns options.

Taking out these paperweights will be quick and merciless for my Necrons, Tau, Eldar and Space Marine armies.

The firing points on that are pretty awesome. Not as good as the chimera but much better than rhinos get.

Reminds me of the Repressor, kind of.

 Jancoran wrote:
The firing points on that are pretty awesome. Not as good as the chimera but much better than rhinos get.

Reminds me of the Repressor, kind of.

I don't see how the fire points are better than the rhino. A unit in a rhino can fire two guns in pretty much any direction, whilst in a taurox can only fire two guns out of a side. It is pretty much impossible to use both the left and right points at the same time, as a unit can only fire at one target. So you only have 2 guns in limited arcs. It would be different if you could tank shock into a unit and fire both sides, but it isn't a tank.

 Ministry wrote:
As a non-IG player these transports have "KILL ME FIRST" written all over them. Especially the Taurox prime as its more of a threat with its fast + guns options.

Taking out these paperweights will be quick and merciless for my Necrons, Tau, Eldar and Space Marine armies.

Which is fine, but it comes at the cost of not shooting at the other nasty things inside the IG list. These transports are quick, deadly, and a viable enough threat to compete as a target priority with IG tanks and artillery. I think the Taurox Prime makes a balanced mech IG list better.

Personally, the number of games that ended up being decided on a single point, generally first blood, do not amke the Taurox an intresting option for me..

Granted with the actual codex in my hand we'll see, but now it looks like a powerful weapons platform made out of cardboard.

Ye gods what an ugly model...and not even close to being in the pug category of ugly but cute; this model is just plain, "I woke up after an epic drunk in bed with the ugliest woman in the universe" bad.

None of these things exists in a vacuum. What are you going to shoot at, the Taurox or the Knight or the Leman Russ? Target priority will save these things from being shot up for at least a turn which gets them across the board if that's where you want them.

 agnosto wrote:
Ye gods what an ugly model...and not even close to being in the pug category of ugly but cute; this model is just plain, "I woke up after an epic drunk in bed with the ugliest woman in the universe" bad.

None of these things exists in a vacuum. What are you going to shoot at, the Taurox or the Knight or the Leman Russ? Target priority will save these things from being shot up for at least a turn which gets them across the board if that's where you want them.

That or you opponent just wants to be mean and blow it up and smell burning guard flesh which happneds alot already lol.

PanzerLeader wrote:

 Ministry wrote:
As a non-IG player these transports have "KILL ME FIRST" written all over them. Especially the Taurox prime as its more of a threat with its fast + guns options.

Taking out these paperweights will be quick and merciless for my Necrons, Tau, Eldar and Space Marine armies.

Which is fine, but it comes at the cost of not shooting at the other nasty things inside the IG list. These transports are quick, deadly, and a viable enough threat to compete as a target priority with IG tanks and artillery. I think the Taurox Prime makes a balanced mech IG list better.

I'm lolling at people who think armour is even an issue at this point

If you field light vehicles the reality is they're going to die anyway. There are many ways you can mitigate the issue, starting by not being a complete idiot that dismisses them before you've even used them.

1) Use Leman Russes as an AV14 front barrier/manipulate LOS
2) Use invuln/cover generators
3) If nothing else, you've got a cheap distraction that was never really critical to your plan in the first place unless you shoved a 10 man Stormie squad inside them (lol don't)
4) Accept the fact that they die and make sure they fire enough to justify their cost before they do


The 90 point Taurox Prime with TL Gatling and TL Hotshot Volley Gun is going to be absolute murder at 24''.

Why?

TL Gatling, BS4:
4.444 wounds on MEQ, 1.481 MEQ unsaved wounds
5.926 wounds on GEQ, 3.951 GEQ unsaved wounds (assuming 5+)

TL HSVG, BS4:
1.778 wounds on MEQ, 1.778 unsaved wounds
2.370 wounds on GEQ, 2.370 GEQ unsaved wounds

Total:
6.222 wounds inflicted on MEQ, 3.259 MEQ unsaved wounds
8.296 wounds inflicted on GEQ, 6.321 GEQ unsaved wounds

And comparing to the DE Venom with 2x SC:
4 wounds inflicted on MEQ and GEQ, 1.333 unsaved wounds on MEQ or 4 unsaved wounds on GEQ

You lost a 5+ jink, gain one AV, don't have to worry about terrain in movement, get an extra hull point, and pay about 25-30 points extra depending on how well my memory is doing. The Venom is revered as one of the greatest weapons the DE have, yet people find no appeal in the Taurox. Heh.

The Taurox Prime with TL Gatling is mental.

I wouldn't even put the Stormies inside the Taurox, I'd deep strike them and buy the Taurox Primes as dedicated transports for them.

Well it's a much better gunboat than a Chimera in general. With enough firepower to worry the enemy the Taurox, while important to them, really wont be AS important to you. So it has that going for it like all MSU type units.

I can foresee this having a very desirous impact on the battle field. And as one who uses speed and meneuvering to maximum advantage in nearly every list, this is right up my ally.

I think they are also very aesthetically pleasing. those of us who are into the models themselves will like playing with them.

It will be a puzzle to unravel like all the others.

 agnosto wrote:
Ye gods what an ugly model...and not even close to being in the pug category of ugly but cute; this model is just plain, "I woke up after an epic drunk in bed with the ugliest woman in the universe" bad.

None of these things exists in a vacuum. What are you going to shoot at, the Taurox or the Knight or the Leman Russ? Target priority will save these things from being shot up for at least a turn which gets them across the board if that's where you want them.

It does have a real life inspiration...

I'd shoot it just to get the ugly thing off of the table. Maybe that's GW's point; make IG more powerful because everybody will focus on destroying this abomination.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PanzerLeader wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Ye gods what an ugly model...and not even close to being in the pug category of ugly but cute; this model is just plain, "I woke up after an epic drunk in bed with the ugliest woman in the universe" bad.

None of these things exists in a vacuum. What are you going to shoot at, the Taurox or the Knight or the Leman Russ? Target priority will save these things from being shot up for at least a turn which gets them across the board if that's where you want them.

It does have a real life inspiration...

I don't think that looks bad. It's the tracks in wheelwells thing....ugh.

I'm really struggling to see any reason to field the Scions, unless the Astra Militarum codex is significantly worse than the current Imperial Guard or they have some hidden synergy with rules we haven't seen yet. I can't think of any shooting unit in the game which can't beat them point-for-point, given moderately competent tactics and reasonable terrain.

Half your models having special weapons might sound good, but the units are too small to soak up damage and too expensive to be disposable. Better to spend those points on more basic infantry squads and heavy weapons, I think. If you want a suicide melta-squad to jump out of a Valkyrie, special weapons squads would seem to do the job cheaper.

The basic Taurox seems like a semi-reasonable alternative to a Chimera, sacrificing a little durability for a slightly lower points cost. Not sure why you would pay more money for something that looks worse and costs more points though.

The Taurox Prime seems too expensive for such a delicate platform. The cheapest and most practical build seems to be the Battle Cannon / Autocannon variant, which is unfortunately also the worst looking one (and they all look really bad). As a light tank, it compares badly with the Hellhound. As a fast transport, it suffers from not really having anything worth transporting and costing way too much.

The only reason I can see to get the scions is that their models are really nice and they might come with a whole mass of useful bits. The Taurox can't even say that.

I'm actually intrigued with the thought of using full platoons of these things dropping in to the enemy's deployment zone, such a strategy can cause a lot of hilarity. It does rely on the shock value of getting the whole platoon in at once, so hopefully that ability will transfer from IG platoons. With move through cover you can drop them straight in to area terrain to keep them safe. I am interested what the six orders are, hopefully they are something more than just the current six orders.

The ability to FRFSRF will be really nice, as against T4 it is effectively the same as +1S under 9" for hot shots, and +2S at 9+". It adds effectiveness in the best way possible for Guard, more dice!

Does WD state that FRF works on hotshots? Because currently, according to the FAQs, it doesn't.

 Paradigm wrote:
Does WD state that FRF works on hotshots? Because currently, according to the FAQs, it doesn't.

A rumour recently claimed it will under the rules laid out in the new Codex, though we'll be getting Codex Miltarum Tempestus first so that should clear things up

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Does WD state that FRF works on hotshots? Because currently, according to the FAQs, it doesn't.

A rumour recently claimed it will under the rules laid out in the new Codex, though we'll be getting Codex Miltarum Tempestus first so that should clear things up

If so, that will be awesome. I would doubt it, but as I imagine GW'll want to push the Scions, I think they may well do that.

There's some leaked WD pages out now which confirm that FRFSRF will work with HSLGs in the new book. So, that might make them a bit more usable. Better than Battle Sisters, but still not as good as Dire Avengers, in my opinion.

It might cover the rules for all rapid fire weapons. Don't quote me in that just saying maybe.

I think the main issue with the look of the model is the blue colour scheme!

Maddness, paint it Army green or dessert camo - or even =I= Black, your sorted!

Also, did anyone notice the referance to Codex: Imperial Guard, for platoon command squad/orders. Is this a mistake or will the new. Another in the very top of page 2, the Scion's etc are apparently Elites for Codex:IG. All the while it mentions Astra Militarum throughout.

Pretty sure those rules are only meant to last until the new codex is out in a couple of weeks.

I also expect that there will be a note in Codex: Astra Militarum that any older book which references Codex: Imperial Guard should instead refer to the new codex.

I never get this with GW - they have already paid excessive amounts for their hotshot lasguns, so why do they have to pay normal prices to replace them for spec weapons?

Because GW executives proclaimed that "A weapon which contains the word "Plasma" shall never be less than 15 points and if it is not a Heavy weapon then its price shall be FOREVER fixed in Imperial records at 15 points!"

 Trickstick wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
The firing points on that are pretty awesome. Not as good as the chimera but much better than rhinos get.

Reminds me of the Repressor, kind of.

I don't see how the fire points are better than the rhino. A unit in a rhino can fire two guns in pretty much any direction, whilst in a taurox can only fire two guns out of a side. It is pretty much impossible to use both the left and right points at the same time, as a unit can only fire at one target. So you only have 2 guns in limited arcs. It would be different if you could tank shock into a unit and fire both sides, but it isn't a tank.

the Chimera should have the same problem, 3 guns in each side arc, but I have yet to play someone that does not use all 6 with a 360 fire arc.