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The rules are not on your side as you have not presented anything whatsoever that says CS don't follow the allies matrix for CSM. The rule at the top of page 50 states that CS follows all the rules pertaining to CSM.

All you have is a blurb that says CS may ally with CSM as battle brothers, and you have assumed that because it isn't worded the same as BL that the clause somehow prohibits them from allying with anyone else when it does not. One does not folllow from the other.

First off, this belongs in YMDC.

Second: A Crimson Slaughter detachment is selected "using the army list presented in Codex:Chaos Space Marines". It is therefore a Codex: Chaos Space Marines detachment in the same way an Iyanden detachment is Codex: Eldar and Raven Guard are Codex: Space Marines.

slaede wrote:

 BarBoBot wrote:
So regardless of the fact that each supplement has had different wording for how they ally, you want to treat them as if they all ally the same?

Where does it say this in the rules?

Where it states that the rules in the codex supplement are SUPPLEMENTAL to the rules of the parent codex. Note that supplemental means they do not override the rules of the parent codex, except in cases where they state things like Crimson Slaughter can't take artifacts from the main CSM book.

Except that's not exactly what it says. "These pages present all the rules alterations and additions to those given in Codex: Chaos Space Marines", and then further on it says "A Crimson Slaughter army is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. It also has a series of supplemental rules (presented below) that can be used in addition to those found in Codex: Chaos Space Marines."

Taking this into account,

"ALLIES : A Crimson Slaughter detachment can ally with a Codex: Chaos Space Marines detachment as Battle Brothers (and vice versa)."

If this overrides C:CSM's Allies relationship from the BRB or supplements it will require an FAQ or Errata probably. I would (personally) say that they are being distinct that Crimson Slaughter is its own army (as it can ally with C:CSM even though they are taken from C:CSM) and as such this is their entire allies matrix.

tl;dr : Talk to your opponent beforehand to make sure you're both on board with whichever interpretation you choose.



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slaede wrote:

 BarBoBot wrote:

In a permissive ruleset, you need permission to do things.

Where is the permission for a supplement to use the same ally matrix as the core codex?

If they use the matrix of the codex, then why does the farsight rules tell you they use the normal tau matrix?

Okay, so Raukaan and Sentinels of Terra can't ally with anyone because they aren't permitted to.

There is nothing in the CSM book that says it is allowed to ally with anyone. It is covered in the main rulebook.

That's a bit of a red herring. You are told to use the rules for C:SM with nothing modifying their allies matrix in the rules, therefore you use the BRB allies matrix. Crimson Slaughter has a modification to the allies matrix. Is it the only ally they can take? Who knows. It is unclear wether this is an addition or an amendment to the C:CSM rules to be used for a Crimson Slaughter detachment.

Rorschach9 wrote:


If this overrides C:CSM's Allies relationship from the BRB or supplements it will require an FAQ or Errata probably.

It does not override because it doesn't say anything about the fact that they can't ally with Necrons anymore. The bits about no VOTLW on anything but cult troops and no relics from the main book clearly override rules from the main book. The allies section does nothing of the sort. It just allows you to ally CS with CSM in addition to the standard CSM allies matrix. The rule is supplemental.

The burden of proof is on you to find a statement that prohibits CS from following the CSM matrix. No such statement exists. However, there is a statement that says they follow the rules for CSM.