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 Sidstyler wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
When compared to a tau commander the space marine captain looks like a waste of paper. Im not trying to seem like a whiney bloke, but they could make commanders balanced and cool! I seriously want to lift Vigilators and Signal masters into 40k.

*Reads the "Are Tau OP?" thread, where the buffmander and the ability to "dole out special rules like candy" is mentioned by what I presume to be mostly Space Marine players as one of the main reasons why Tau are overpowered.*

*Then reads this thread where people are proposing that Space Marine captains/chapter masters not only get the same ability, but better, affecting more than just a single unit at a time and possibly even being army-wide buffs, claiming that it would be both balanced and cool.*

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

...in case that doesn't show up properly, it's supposed to be the "table flip emoticon"...

C:SM doesn't have the ranged power the Tau have, and I can't see any one even suggesting anything close to "Ignores Cover" in potential impact. Seriously, where is the Special Rules that are more OP and better than those of the Buffmanders, because I'm not seeing them.

The point is that Space Marines are the least in need of this of any faction, given the wide range of toys already held.

Chapter Masters will always be Captains +1, because before they were Chapter Masters, they were Captains.

Essentially, as long as the CM exists, the Captain will seem lackluster. The only redress was bikes in the last edition I've seen, and I've played since 99.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
When compared to a tau commander the space marine captain looks like a waste of paper. Im not trying to seem like a whiney bloke, but they could make commanders balanced and cool! I seriously want to lift Vigilators and Signal masters into 40k.

*Reads the "Are Tau OP?" thread, where the buffmander and the ability to "dole out special rules like candy" is mentioned by what I presume to be mostly Space Marine players as one of the main reasons why Tau are overpowered.*

*Then reads this thread where people are proposing that Space Marine captains/chapter masters not only get the same ability, but better, affecting more than just a single unit at a time and possibly even being army-wide buffs, claiming that it would be both balanced and cool.*

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

...in case that doesn't show up properly, it's supposed to be the "table flip emoticon"...

Yea, it showed up fine. I personally just want a captain to be like a centurion in the Horus Heresy. They did it before with the Siege Master, what I think is the best generic captain in Codex space marine, but they limit him to a list that is expensive and has a few elements that limit it a lot.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
When compared to a tau commander the space marine captain looks like a waste of paper. Im not trying to seem like a whiney bloke, but they could make commanders balanced and cool! I seriously want to lift Vigilators and Signal masters into 40k.

*Reads the "Are Tau OP?" thread, where the buffmander and the ability to "dole out special rules like candy" is mentioned by what I presume to be mostly Space Marine players as one of the main reasons why Tau are overpowered.*

*Then reads this thread where people are proposing that Space Marine captains/chapter masters not only get the same ability, but better, affecting more than just a single unit at a time and possibly even being army-wide buffs, claiming that it would be both balanced and cool.*

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

...in case that doesn't show up properly, it's supposed to be the "table flip emoticon"...

C:SM doesn't have the ranged power the Tau have, and I can't see any one even suggesting anything close to "Ignores Cover" in potential impact. Seriously, where is the Special Rules that are more OP and better than those of the Buffmanders, because I'm not seeing them.

Space Marines aren't supposed to, either. Marines were designed to do other things besides just shooting, Tau weren't, and unlike Marines they're solely dependent on it to win games. If Tau didn't have that ranged firepower the army would be a complete push-over, and funnily enough they kinda were in the previous, IG and MEQ-dominated edition of MSU and vehicle spam, even when spamming the heaviest guns we possibly could (which GW did nerf in the new codex). And no one's suggesting Ignores Cover mainly because it would be way too blatantly hypocritical, I imagine, after complaining about Tau having it and being so "OP" for months on end...so we'll just give them every special rule but that and it'll be fair!

Speaking of Ignores Cover, that's really a topic for the other thread anyway, but to keep it brief-ish, I don't think the buffmander itself is the biggest issue or that Ignores Cover is even a problem. Ignores Cover is a good rule, but by all rights being able to give it to one unit per turn shouldn't be that big of a deal, and if it really is that bad then the rule needs to be removed from the game as the rule itself is inherently broken, not the idea of the buffmander. Markerlights are worse, since they practically give the entire army Ignores Cover now anyway, and way too easily. The other issue is the 6th edition rules themselves, because allies are broken in their current implementation, and it's mainly what makes the buffmander so stupid, because he can give those buffs to other units outside the Tau codex and vice versa. If the buffmander was limited to buffing Tau units only it wouldn't be so bad. That's mainly my opinion on the "Tau are OP!" crap in general, the core rules have more to do with it than anything else: Allies, bad mission design, assault nerfs, etc.

Anyway, no, nothing in that list of special rules really comes off as being game-breaking to me. Before I would have raised an eyebrow at army-wide Stealth, but as you pointed out, everyone has Ignores Cover now so who gives a gak. I was more or less talking about the idea of giving the buffs to d3+1 units, or potentially making them army-wide buffs, which in my opinion is better and does have a larger impact on the game purely because it's affecting a larger number of units and not just one per turn. But for the record I'm not opposed to Space Marine captains/chapter masters getting similar abilities to the buffmander, or any other army HQ's getting them, so long as it's all balanced I honestly don't care. I rather liked the idea of the Tau buffmander and want to see more stuff like that in the game.

I agree with a lot of what you said, Sid. I agree that an army wide buff would be a little too much? I don't know.

Depends on what it is, really. Like I said I was mainly irked by the idea before because I wrongly assumed people were complaining about the idea of one unit granting one from a short list of special rules to another unit it joins, since that's pretty much exactly what everyone was saying, but it turns out that it's only one specific rule no one likes. Personally I think that if it was Ignores Cover then people should have clarified that more, instead of going on about how handing out rules like that is just inherently broken and how no army in the game should be able to do it.

I have a few problems with tau myself, but I don't want to go into this during this topic. hundreds of other ones to use.


Do any of you think that as an experiment it would be good to lift some centurion rules from 30k and try them with 40k?