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Big deal. Playing Imperials vs Imperials is to be expected and otherwise, well, they're the definitive major faction of the universe.

I expect that very few people are actually going to try run a singular Militarum Tempestus army, most people will just take them as allies/in their IG.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
Yeah after reading the rules in the WD, I'm not a fan due to they have taken out the hot-shot lasgun meaning that you have to buy it as an upgrade and points for squad also did not change again..

Read it again.

The hot-shot lasgun that you have to buy is a special weapon called the "Volley Hot-Shot Lasgun".

I only had a skim as the Guard vet in our FLGS showed me, so I could be wrong..

Its awesome. I see it as part 1 of the Imperial Guard release. We can only hope for more models in the part 2.

Always good to see more humans.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

Big deal. Playing Imperials vs Imperials is to be expected and otherwise, well, they're the definitive major faction of the universe.

I expect that very few people are actually going to try run a singular Militarum Tempestus army, most people will just take them as allies/in their IG.

I'm already set for a MT army actually. Just have to finish building my three Valkyries, get the book next week and 3 Scion/Command Squad boxes.

I'm getting 3 of the boxes to build Command Squads for my primarily Kasrkin force. I'm sitting on 56 of the metal bastards...but of those, no Sergeants. I have 36 generic Kasrkin Hellrifle armed models(bought them from a local hobby shop as it was going out of business, they had 12 blisters of the Hellrifle armed guys and I nabbed them for $90 all told.), then the remaining 20 are Plasma Guns/Meltaguns.

So the only thing I'm really lacking? Sergeants and a general idea as to the squad compositions I'm going for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 happygolucky wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
Yeah after reading the rules in the WD, I'm not a fan due to they have taken out the hot-shot lasgun meaning that you have to buy it as an upgrade and points for squad also did not change again..

Read it again.

The hot-shot lasgun that you have to buy is a special weapon called the "Volley Hot-Shot Lasgun".

I only had a skim as the Guard vet in our FLGS showed me, so I could be wrong..

Tempestus Scions come with Hot-shot Lasguns as standard.
Tempestors(sergeants) come with CCWs/Hot-shot Laspistols as standard.

Hot-shot Volley Gun is the upgradable special weapon.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

ansacs wrote:Yeah I can't believe people get so angry at GW for releasing a codex that you don't have to buy even if you want to play storm troopers in a regular IG army.

I'm not 100% certain this is going to be true, though.

Note how on the GW website they no longer sell stormtroopers for imperial guard? It is entirely possible that guard won't have stormtroopers anymore, but instead you'll have to ally them in from tempestus.

Oh yeah, I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the "Stormtroopers" in that section were all metal kits. Or that they might not have put them into the section because y'know, they are going to be renaming and reorganizing the section?

I am pretty sure they can be taken in the IG army (99%). The WD rules specifically say you can take a small platoon of them in an elites slot of an IG army. It should also be noted that the Taurox is a vehicle that can be taken in IG armies and yet it is not under IG.

I would bet that they are not adding anything to IG as they will be name changing the army soon anyways. They probably won't bother much with the IG categories until they update the whole thing for their release.

 ansacs wrote:
The WD rules specifically say you can take a small platoon of them in an elites slot of an IG army. It should also be noted that the Taurox is a vehicle that can be taken in IG armies and yet it is not under IG.

Please don't quote anything from White Dwarf please. All you are doing is giving out false information. Next thing you will know, anyone can use an Imperial Knight, because White Dwarf said so and especially the Facebook GW guy said anyone can use an IK.

Anything in WD can't be trusted. A lot of stuff is just made up in it still it seems.

The WD for the Knight didn't give it to "everyone" though.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The WD for the Knight didn't give it to "everyone" though.

True, but it didn't say who could take and who couldn't take it either. You are right. I guess I was going off by the Facebook guy who said you could. A lot of people were taking his words as gospel.

So my point still stands I guess, can't really trust anything in a WD report.

Davor wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The WD for the Knight didn't give it to "everyone" though.

True, but it didn't say who could take and who couldn't take it either. You are right. I guess I was going off by the Facebook guy who said you could. A lot of people were taking his words as gospel.

So my point still stands I guess, can't really trust anything in a WD report.

Or a better point would have been that despite them emphasizing the Imperial Knight part, never referring to it as a "Knight" but always as an "Imperial Knight" was not enough of a hint to people.

Davor wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The WD for the Knight didn't give it to "everyone" though.

True, but it didn't say who could take and who couldn't take it either. You are right. I guess I was going off by the Facebook guy who said you could. A lot of people were taking his words as gospel.

So my point still stands I guess, can't really trust anything in a WD report.

Actually your point doesn't stand at all. Everything printed in WD was correct about the Imperial Knight. The facebook guy was wrong but as far as I know facebook is not WD...

Perhaps guard will have an extra ally slot to take auxiliaries? Like how you have an extra ally slot to take inquisition units?

And I don't put much stock in the WD article as an indicator of the future. It seems to me to be a quick patch to hack the new rules into the existing framework before the new codex comes out. It does say, after all, that you can take them as an elites choice in "Imperial Guard" not "Astra Militarum".

In any case, if stormtroopers were going to stay in the guard codex, then you would be able to buy the new stormtrooper models from the imperial guard section of the website. Instead, they took stormtroopers completely out, which seems more likely that it's because they're going to be removed in favor of having them in their own codex.

Like how demons used to be part of CSM but now aren't.

 Ailaros wrote:
Perhaps guard will have an extra ally slot to take auxiliaries? Like how you have an extra ally slot to take inquisition units?

And I don't put much stock in the WD article as an indicator of the future. It seems to me to be a quick patch to hack the new rules into the existing framework before the new codex comes out. It does say, after all, that you can take them as an elites choice in "Imperial Guard" not "Astra Militarum".

Which means absolutely jack. The Taurox Prime/Taurox section tells you that the vehicles can take "Codex: Astra Militarum" upgrades.


They also very blatantly in WD talk about how "Militarum Tempestus/Imperial Guard players need to take into consideration that the FRFSRF order will now apply to Hot-shot Lasguns and not just Lasguns" and how "the Guard might be seeing an updated book sooner than you think..." in the White Dwarf.

In any case, if stormtroopers were going to stay in the guard codex, then you would be able to buy the new stormtrooper models from the imperial guard section of the website. Instead, they took stormtroopers completely out, which seems more likely that it's because they're going to be removed in favor of having them in their own codex.

And...?

Dark Angels can take Terminators as Troops or Elites, but the only box that is in the Elites section for Terminators is the Deathwing Command Squad.

Ogryn are also supposed to be part of the Militarum Tempestus book, but guess what? They're not in the MT section!

From WD Daily which is a pretty good benchmark on who gets what new stuff:

There are two new plastic kits available to pre-order for the Astra Militarum this weekend, the Taurox Prime and the Militarum Tempestus Scions.

Tempestus Scions can be taken as part of an Astra Militarum force, but they can also be fielded as a complete army using the rules in Codex: Militarum Tempestus, which is also available to pre-order today.

So the new release blurb is claiming that they are going to be in the new codex it seems.

 ansacs wrote:
Yeah I can't believe people get so angry at GW for releasing a codex that you don't have to buy even if you want to play storm troopers in a regular IG army. They are still going to be in the IG codex they just got a separate army list as well that allows all the people who always wanted to field an all SS army to do so.

You know what would have also allowed people to field an all Stormtrooper army? Including a paragraph of rules in the Guard codex, allowing you to field an all Stormtrooper army.

What's made people 'angry' is that GW instead chose to release a completely separate book for a Command squad and a single Troop unit.

GW went from updating the xenos dexs once every ~7 years to updating almost all of them in a single edition and people are mad that they released more content to boot?

People dislike the current release method, yes.

If you're doing something that people dislike, and you change what you are doing, that's no guarantee that people are going to like what you have changed to... particularly when what you have changed to is utterly ridiculous.

 insaniak wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
Yeah I can't believe people get so angry at GW for releasing a codex that you don't have to buy even if you want to play storm troopers in a regular IG army. They are still going to be in the IG codex they just got a separate army list as well that allows all the people who always wanted to field an all SS army to do so.

You know what would have also allowed people to field an all Stormtrooper army? Including a paragraph of rules in the Guard codex, allowing you to field an all Stormtrooper army.

What's made people 'angry' is that GW instead chose to release a completely separate book for a Command squad and a single Troop unit.

GW went from updating the xenos dexs once every ~7 years to updating almost all of them in a single edition and people are mad that they released more content to boot?

People dislike the current release method, yes.

If you're doing something that people dislike, and you change what you are doing, that's no guarantee that people are going to like what you have changed to... particularly when what you have changed to is utterly ridiculous.

Yeah.
Back in the early 2000s iirc, codices and army books (at least, the Lizardmen army book) tended to have alternate army lists. In the LM's case it was this southlands army, which allowed the player to field horned ones and skink cohorts. This also existed, in a way, in the 3rd ed IG book, which had a doctrines system, allowing armies to take stormtroopers as troops, giving access to carapace armor, increasing moral, etc etc.

GW stopped doing that for 7th ed WHFB and 4th ed (or maybe it was 5th ed. A bit foggy there), and are bringing it back in a way in the form of supplements.
Except instead of incorporating it in the army book / codex, they charge extra for it.
Now, I do agree that it is nice that they are introducing more variation into the game, but it would be even nicer if it was relatively free like it was before >.<

GW also published army lists in WD in the past too. Now it seems they're making the same kind of thing before, mostly so people can capitalize on allies.

Over priced junk like alot of things lately, £21for five guardsmen is really pushing things.

I would have rather seen the Scions box sold as two different boxes for less money each. The bits are damn sweet, but I shouldn't have to pay for command squad components if I don't intent on using them on the figures. It's not the same as boxes that are including extra bits and weapon options for a single squad.

It would be like replacing SM tactical squad and comand squad boxes sets with one that has parts for both, and then charging 20% more for it.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
It would be like replacing SM tactical squad and comand squad boxes sets with one that has parts for both, and then charging 20% more for it.

As a Space Marine player,

Yeah, and you know you'd hear complaints if it DIDN'T come with all the bitz needed to make everything.

I just love that GW keeps making rules for DreamForge models. It's hilarious. If you haven't checked them out, you should.

 Ailaros wrote:
Yeah, and you know you'd hear complaints if it DIDN'T come with all the bitz needed to make everything.

Like CSM terminators who don't have all the bits they need to be equipped in all their legal configurations?

I'll take a slightly more expensive kit that has everything than one that saves me a few bucks but then requires me to buy a second box to get the bits I need.

Sure, and for converters and modellers like myself that's fine. Not everyone is that way. I've seen at least a few guard armies over the years that didn't have any special weapons other than grenade launchers and flamers, though...

Plus, these kinds of kits are better for converters anyways as they generate a lot more bitz for people to buy, and at cheaper.

 Ailaros wrote:
Sure, and for converters and modellers like myself that's fine. Not everyone is that way. I've seen at least a few guard armies over the years that didn't have any special weapons other than grenade launchers and flamers, though...

Gee, it's almost like those were previously the only two weapons that were in plastic and/or included in reasonable enough numbers to outfit squads with.

 Ailaros wrote:
Sure, and for converters and modellers like myself that's fine. Not everyone is that way. I've seen at least a few guard armies over the years that didn't have any special weapons other than grenade launchers and flamers, though...

Plus, these kinds of kits are better for converters anyways as they generate a lot more bitz for people to buy, and at cheaper.

Oh I understand completely, but when compared to older kits, many of which didn't even have all the bits the should have to fill the basic needs of the squad I'd still rather have a kit with all the options I'm supposed to have (though the command squad really should be it's own box, I at least appreciate them putting all the options in there).

I'm totally stoked by the Stormtrooper release.
Possibly because I already have a full themed ig army of 100 kasrkin that I used as regular guardsmen with a bunch of valks and chimera.
I'll buy the book and a couple of the new boxes as command squads and hey presto new army for under £100 and an evening or twos painting.

I'm a little upset that I'll probably have to do the same with my standard ig army the week after that.

Either way I'll have two brand new, fully painted, up to date armies for the next few years.

Eh. I don't think the Command Squad can really justify being its own box.

The unit option in WD for a Command Squad is a 5 man squad, which can be kitted out as nothing but the "special" stuff(Tempestor Prime with his suit jacket, a flagwaver, vox operator, medic, and a special weapons guy). Or it can be the Tempestor Prime and 4x special weapons, or 4x Hellgun armed riflemen with the Prime, etc.

Double post.

I, for one, like this new direction. I can't wait to buy a $60 CAD Commissar codex to go with the new $47 CAD commissar model.

If anything, they're charging far, far too little. I mean, I still have money in my pockets to buy the $30 CAD dataslate to field my Commissar in 1 unit formations.

The Militarum Tempestus book is not a real codex. So, cry about it.