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Why don't Traitor Space Marines use MKIV armour?

Except they do, the new raptors kits has some heads that look like heavily modified MK4 helmets.

OT: they've been fighting for 10 millennia and don't venerate old equipment, so they're obviously have going to have replaced the pre-heresy armour by now.

 Kriswall wrote:
Also, when a CSM kills a SM who is wearing shiny new armour, the CSM thinks... "Man, I sure would love to have that shiny new armour."

In other words, CSM don't have the Forge World resources a SM Chapter might, so they scavenge what they can. Over the years, that scavenging has led to newer and newer Marks of armour.

The better question isn't "Why do CSM use new armour?". The better question is "Why don't CSM loot and scavenge other bits of tech?".

Where is my CSM Attack Bike? Land Speeder? Scout Armour?

While that is true of renegades, most of the legions have multiple Forge Worlds dedicated to producing armor for them so it's not a stretch to say that CSM still have an abundance of MKIV Armor, but it is obviously twisted and defaced by the warp.

 Gashrog wrote:
Fluffwise the reason for Mk5+ existing is that Mk4 was so advanced that the Legions were unable to fabricate sufficient spare parts to repair battle damage.

Plus the fact that Mars was the principal forge world producing Mk4. Sigismund led a strike team to secure as many suits as he could before the civil war completely overtook Mars. And the fact that Horus was using his influence to redirect most of the shiny new toys to the legions that would eventually turn traitor.

Its like in Fallout games. When you start off you only get the crap armour and regular clothes (Guardsmen level stuff) and then the heavier stuff, leather, metal and combat armour (scout armour). |Eventually you may get power armour training and find power armour. But then you might find someone with a better version of power armour or a unique suit. So you kill him and upgrade. Or you might locate a Winterized T51-B (Assuming you have the Operation Anchorage DLC for Fallout 3) which doesn't get damaged and has the 2nd highest stats, the highest stats only being available if you have Broken Steel DLC and is extremely rare and hard to come by, especially as the only way to get it is to storm the enemy fortress.

So, a new recruit to a Legion, Chapter or renegades in general has to spend his childhood on the front lines and hope he's gained enough favour to be made a marine from the paltry amounts of Geneseed the traitor apothecaries retrieve/Fabius Bile creates. You then have to wear Scout type armour until the rest of the implants come. You then get your first suit of power armour, a wonderous suit of the brand new, top of the line Mk 3. Then you get issued an even better version, the Mk IV! Then there is a Horus Heresy and you flee with your brothers. Now the loyalists have the Mk VI and VII :( And one day in battle you kill a Beaky and decide, hey, I'mma have that, so you take his armour and hope that your Champion or Chaos Lord won't kill you for it and take it for his own. Then you kill a Mk VII and take that and now you have the equivalent of Fallout's Tesla armour, 3rd best, or second best assuming no BS DLC. then you might be lucky enough to come across the Winterized T51-B equivalent, Mk8 Errant. And your life is over because you Lord kills you, takes your shiny new toys and offers you to the dark gods.

I just find it hard to believe that almost all the CSM have been able to replace their MKIV armour with scavenged pieces. I know they at times have some weird armour, but all seem to use an MKVII base. From what I can tell, immediately post-Horus Heresy, most had MKIV. Anything about Dark Forge Worlds? I know it's mentioned the Alpha Legion have some.

You know what annoyes me much more...Terminators and Dreadnoughts,

It is stated in virtually every piece of fluff that Terminator's were a new addition to the Legions. Cataphractii plate was almost brand new and superior. There was absolutely no reason for the Chaos Legions not to be wearing it as standard. Modern Terminator armour is still incredibly rare so it is very unlikely that all of the Traitor's suits are scavenged. Similarly, why are there no Chaos Contemptors? It was the standard Dread pattern back in the day and being a Dreadnought is an unappealing prospect for a Chaos marine, so it seems silly that they have so many of the newer versions and none of the old.

Also, what about Legions like Deathguard? Or Thousand Sons, or any of the other individual marines that are far too corrupted to even removed their armour anymore (and a great many have been mentioned in the fluff). Not all Legions are scavengers like the Night Lords. In the fluff, those suits of MKVII that have been stolen always have the aquilla displayed and defiled, original armour or armour scavenged from other fallen traitors would be the warped stuff we see in the game. It is clearly a case of the fluff overtaking model production. Chaos vehicles, armour, everything should be way more Heresy-esque than it currently is, with the exception of Daemon engines

 KorPhaeron77 wrote:
You know what annoyes me much more...Terminators and Dreadnoughts,

It is stated in virtually every piece of fluff that Terminator's were a new addition to the Legions. Cataphractii plate was almost brand new and superior. There was absolutely no reason for the Chaos Legions not to be wearing it as standard. Modern Terminator armour is still incredibly rare so it is very unlikely that all of the Traitor's suits are scavenged. Similarly, why are there no Chaos Contemptors? It was the standard Dread pattern back in the day and being a Dreadnought is an unappealing prospect for a Chaos marine, so it seems silly that they have so many of the newer versions and none of the old.

Also, what about Legions like Deathguard? Or Thousand Sons, or any of the other individual marines that are far too corrupted to even removed their armour anymore (and a great many have been mentioned in the fluff). Not all Legions are scavengers like the Night Lords. In the fluff, those suits of MKVII that have been stolen always have the aquilla displayed and defiled, original armour or armour scavenged from other fallen traitors would be the warped stuff we see in the game. It is clearly a case of the fluff overtaking model production. Chaos vehicles, armour, everything should be way more Heresy-esque than it currently is, with the exception of Daemon engines

I agree with that. If you had Dark Forge Worlds that only differed from normal Forge Worlds in that they produced arms and equipment (unknowingly) for CSM, it would at least make some sense.

 ChazSexington wrote:
I just find it hard to believe that almost all the CSM have been able to replace their MKIV armour with scavenged pieces. From what I can tell, immediately post-Horus Heresy, most had MKIV.

Salient points from WD129/RT Compilation:
"With the Mark 4 newly in service the need for large numbers of spares had not been anticipated, so that suits quickly became unusable due to quite minor battle damage."

"As Horus's own supply position became tenuous Mark 5 suits were scavenged from fallen enemies and used by his forces."

[of Mark 6]"During the Martian campaign forces of Horus eventually overran the production facilities for Space Marine armour and soon began to manufacture new suits for their own use. Consignments were distributed to other forces elsewhere in the galaxy so this armour became quite widespread."

 Gashrog wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
I just find it hard to believe that almost all the CSM have been able to replace their MKIV armour with scavenged pieces. From what I can tell, immediately post-Horus Heresy, most had MKIV.

Salient points from WD129/RT Compilation:
"With the Mark 4 newly in service the need for large numbers of spares had not been anticipated, so that suits quickly became unusable due to quite minor battle damage."

"As Horus's own supply position became tenuous Mark 5 suits were scavenged from fallen enemies and used by his forces."

[of Mark 6]"During the Martian campaign forces of Horus eventually overran the production facilities for Space Marine armour and soon began to manufacture new suits for their own use. Consignments were distributed to other forces elsewhere in the galaxy so this armour became quite widespread."

Cheers

 Kriswall wrote:
Also, when a CSM kills a SM who is wearing shiny new armour, the CSM thinks... "Man, I sure would love to have that shiny new armour."

In other words, CSM don't have the Forge World resources a SM Chapter might, so they scavenge what they can. Over the years, that scavenging has led to newer and newer Marks of armour.

The better question isn't "Why do CSM use new armour?". The better question is "Why don't CSM loot and scavenge other bits of tech?".

Where is my CSM Attack Bike? Land Speeder? Scout Armour?

A marine gets shot off an Attack Bike... What happens? It crashes and is demolished.
Same with the land speeder.
There are no CSM Scouts...

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Also, when a CSM kills a SM who is wearing shiny new armour, the CSM thinks... "Man, I sure would love to have that shiny new armour."

In other words, CSM don't have the Forge World resources a SM Chapter might, so they scavenge what they can. Over the years, that scavenging has led to newer and newer Marks of armour.

The better question isn't "Why do CSM use new armour?". The better question is "Why don't CSM loot and scavenge other bits of tech?".

Where is my CSM Attack Bike? Land Speeder? Scout Armour?

A marine gets shot off an Attack Bike... What happens? It crashes and is demolished.
Same with the land speeder.
There are no CSM Scouts...

if the CSMs were to raid a forge world and steal a bunch of them they could have them though?

and in one of the iron warriors or ultramarines books iron warriors warsmith honsou creates things called daemonculaba that create space marines you put a kid in and it either pops out a space marine neophyte or a monster of somesort, kind of a gakky way of making marines considering half of your kids probably die

CSM do use Mk.IV armour, it's just that the GW kits are old.

jhe90 wrote:
You mean storm of iron? Where they raid the fortress and lay siege to gain it?

Minor spoiler there mate.

But, yes. Also Fabius Bile's giant womb thing that creates new CSM minus their skin.

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
CSM do use Mk.IV armour, it's just that the GW kits are old.

Not really a valid statement given that the fluff predates the kits by almost decade.