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Also, if the Legion can infiltrate an organisation such as the Schola, wouldn't that mean they can infiltrate everywhere? What's to stop them from installing their own high lords?

I feel this meme sums up this thread

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, so? That still doesn't answer the question how the Legion got their human minions into the schola. Just sounds like speculation.

Check the updated post. Apparently the Alpha Legion makes use of normal human operatives who are completely loyal to the Legion and are dispersed throughout the galaxy and in such number that they are capable of maintaining active communication between multiple cells, which is a distance likely in the range of tens of thousands of lightyears. Which means that they must be quite substantial in number.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, so? That still doesn't answer the question how the Legion got their human minions into the schola. Just sounds like speculation.

By training them previous to submission into the Schola and then having them excel above everyone else because they were trained by the masters of guerrilla warfare? Then they'd join the Stormtroopers, infiltrate the upper ranks and then have the highest up guy let in all the Alpha Legion recruits and keep out any non-indoctrinated ones and just turn the Scions regiment into a big AL Cell. After that they'd buddy up with the Ultramarines, prove their worth and get accepted into the UMs and then destroy them from the inside.
JUST AS PLANNED

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, so? That still doesn't answer the question how the Legion got their human minions into the schola. Just sounds like speculation.

Check the updated post. Apparently the Alpha Legion makes use of normal human operatives who are completely loyal to the Legion and are dispersed throughout the galaxy and in such number that they are capable of maintaining active communication between multiple cells, which is a distance likely in the range of tens of thousands of lightyears. Which means that they must be quite substantial in number.

As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

The implications are just too absurd, and effectively turn the Alpha Legion into a bunch of implausible, Dan Brown-esque Mary Sues.

 Wyzilla wrote:
(...)

And yes, the Alpha Legion are ridiculously good at infiltrating. Off the top of my head they brought down an entire chapter with sleeper agents, had at least one guy in the Inquisition IIRC, and work in small terrorist cells using cultists, although I can't find where that was stated, but I always hear about how the Alpha Legion uses mortals in its affairs. Either way, Ultramarines might need to do some purging, and make sure it's not Ultramarines they're purging, but sleeper agents.
(...)

As you already read on Lexicanum, the infiltration experts ("operatives") are described in Index Astartes.

The infiltration in the Inquisition happens in "We Are One", a short story by John French, part of the anthology Treacheries of the Space Marines ( what a lame name)

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, so? That still doesn't answer the question how the Legion got their human minions into the schola. Just sounds like speculation.

By training them previous to submission into the Schola and then having them excel above everyone else because they were trained by the masters of guerrilla warfare? Then they'd join the Stormtroopers, infiltrate the upper ranks and then have the highest up guy let in all the Alpha Legion recruits and keep out any non-indoctrinated ones and just turn the Scions regiment into a big AL Cell. After that they'd buddy up with the Ultramarines, prove their worth and get accepted into the UMs and then destroy them from the inside.
JUST AS PLANNED

Ok then, wouldn't that mean that ALL Stormtroopers are minions? Why stop with 1 regiment? Why not all of them?
Why even stop at Stormtroopers? Why not sisters, or commissars?
Also, doesn't the Schola have a very strict screening process? I mean, it is where the military elite is trained.

It's just such a convoluted scheme. There's so many plot holes it makes swiss cheese look like solid lead.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

And they have and do go further, but not to the point of infiltrating all of the Stormtrooper regiments or the High Lords.

Wyzilla wrote:We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).

Just for the records - was this in a Codex or some novel?

Wyzilla wrote:Not only does "Alphic Hydras" scream Alpha Legion [...]

Again, why? Because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Look at the other formations on that list: Alphic, Beltic, Deltan, Epsilic, ... the connection between these names should be evident, and the Alphic Hydras (as well as the Alphic Lions) have their name because that's the first letter in the alphabet, obviously following a designation pattern established by the parent organisation.

Unless you want to suggest that the Alpha Legion has somehow infiltrated the entire Scions program and is responsible for establishing this naming pattern, because no-one else in the entire galaxy is allowed to have "Alpha" in their name without it having to do with the Alpha Legion, no matter that "Alpha" is not a proper name but just a letter in the alphabet. This is equivalent to saying the United States Army has infiltrated the German Bundeswehr, because both militaries have a regiment that uses the number "1" in its name.

As to why they work well together with the Ultramarines, maaaybe that might just be because the Ultras have a good reputation when it comes to working with people?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

You seriously seem to have absolutely no sense of scale. Owning the Imperium would be an incredibly difficult procedure to execute, and then there's the whole thing of the Emperor still being aware of what's going on. Sending an infiltrator right onto Terra itself would simply risk everything they've built up. Plus it's much less resource intensive to control a single regiment than it is to take over the entire Imperium. For all we know right now they're at their logistical limit of infiltration and the system they've built is straining under all the weight.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

And they have and do go further, but not to the point of infiltrating all of the Stormtrooper regiments or the High Lords.

Ah, but that contradicts your theory of there being a high ranking operative in the Schola - surely if they have that much power, they would try to extend their influence further over the other regiments?

 Lynata wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).

Just for the records - was this in a Codex or some novel?

Wyzilla wrote:Not only does "Alphic Hydras" scream Alpha Legion [...]

Again, why? Because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Look at the other formations on that list: Alphic, Beltic, Deltan, Epsilic, ... the connection between these names should be evident, and the Alphic Hydras (as well as the Alphic Lions) have their name because that's the first letter in the alphabet, obviously following a designation pattern established by the parent organisation.

Unless you want to suggest that the Alpha Legion has somehow infiltrated the entire Scions program and is responsible for establishing this naming pattern, because no-one else in the entire galaxy is allowed to have "Alpha" in their name without it having to do with the Alpha Legion, no matter that "Alpha" is not a proper name but just a letter in the alphabet. This is equivalent to saying the United States Army has infiltrated the German Bundeswehr, because both militaries have a regiment that uses the number "1" in its name.

As to why they work well together with the Ultramarines, maaaybe that might just be because the Ultras have a good reputation when it comes to working with people?

The use of the Hyrda iconography and the fact that they're Alphic, how could somebody write this and not see the connection?

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

You seriously seem to have absolutely no sense of scale. Owning the Imperium would be an incredibly difficult procedure to execute, and then there's the whole thing of the Emperor still being aware of what's going on. Sending an infiltrator right onto Terra itself would simply risk everything they've built up. Plus it's much less resource intensive to control a single regiment than it is to take over the entire Imperium. For all we know right now they're at their logistical limit of infiltration and the system they've built is straining under all the weight.

Ok then...if it is draining that much resources, wouldn't it be better to use all those operatives in that regiment in some bureaucratic position? Like as a Planetary governor, someone close to some general?
It just seems to be an awfully complex plot to undermine a chapter.

 Lynata wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).

Just for the records - was this in a Codex or some novel?

Wyzilla wrote:Not only does "Alphic Hydras" scream Alpha Legion [...]

Again, why? Because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Look at the other formations on that list: Alphic, Beltic, Deltan, Epsilic, ... the connection between these names should be evident, and the Alphic Hydras (as well as the Alphic Lions) have their name because that's the first letter in the alphabet, obviously following a designation pattern established by the parent organisation.

Unless you want to suggest that the Alpha Legion has somehow infiltrated the entire Scions program and is responsible for establishing this naming pattern, because no-one else in the entire galaxy is allowed to have "Alpha" in their name without it having to do with the Alpha Legion, no matter that "Alpha" is not a proper name but just a letter in the alphabet. This is equivalent to saying the United States Army has infiltrated the German Bundeswehr, because both militaries have a regiment that uses the number "1" in its name.

As to why they work well together with the Ultramarines, maaaybe that might just be because the Ultras have a good reputation when it comes to working with people?

So obviously a space marine chapter or a guardsmen regiment could name themselves the Children of Horus. Because the Luna Wolves don't have a trademark on their names or anything.

No, all those who know of the Horus Heresy would likely have alarm bells going off at anything associated with the traitor legions, especially one that is well known for having a knack for infiltration, to the point that even the Inquisition itself was compromised. It's amazing that they weren't smoked for having a name that sounds remotely similar to the Alpha Legion, let alone a play on their icons and heraldry that should be causing alarm bells to go off all over the place. Plus there's the addition of the Alpha Legion having agents everywhere and one cell already targeted an Ultramarine descendent and wiped them clean off the map.

And yes, it was from the Space Marine omnibus, I forget which "book" it was in though.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

You seriously seem to have absolutely no sense of scale. Owning the Imperium would be an incredibly difficult procedure to execute, and then there's the whole thing of the Emperor still being aware of what's going on. Sending an infiltrator right onto Terra itself would simply risk everything they've built up. Plus it's much less resource intensive to control a single regiment than it is to take over the entire Imperium. For all we know right now they're at their logistical limit of infiltration and the system they've built is straining under all the weight.

Ok then...if it is draining that much resources, wouldn't it be better to use all those operatives in that regiment in some bureaucratic position? Like as a Planetary governor, someone close to some general?
It just seems to be an awfully complex plot to undermine a chapter.

It's the Alpha Legion. They utterly despise the Ultramarines and want revenge upon them above all. You might as well criticize the extreme blood feud between the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists. There's a lot of bad blood between the two Legions before the Alpha Legion even turned traitor, it's not surprising at all to find out that they're targeting the Ultramarines, hell I'd be shocked it they weren't. It also might explain why the plot in-universe is so painfully obvious if you actually analyzed it for a bit. An Alpha Legion cell desperately wants to kill the Ultramarines or cripple them, so they're focusing on speed ahead of stealth.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

And they have and do go further, but not to the point of infiltrating all of the Stormtrooper regiments or the High Lords.

Ah, but that contradicts your theory of there being a high ranking operative in the Schola - surely if they have that much power, they would try to extend their influence further over the other regiments?

Why does it contradict the theory of there being a high ranking operative? They only infiltrate the things they need to achieve goals, and they don't need to spend resources infiltrating other regiments, their only goal here is to get in with the Ultramarines and they're achieving it.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Lynata wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).

Just for the records - was this in a Codex or some novel?

Wyzilla wrote:Not only does "Alphic Hydras" scream Alpha Legion [...]

Again, why? Because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Look at the other formations on that list: Alphic, Beltic, Deltan, Epsilic, ... the connection between these names should be evident, and the Alphic Hydras (as well as the Alphic Lions) have their name because that's the first letter in the alphabet, obviously following a designation pattern established by the parent organisation.

Unless you want to suggest that the Alpha Legion has somehow infiltrated the entire Scions program and is responsible for establishing this naming pattern, because no-one else in the entire galaxy is allowed to have "Alpha" in their name without it having to do with the Alpha Legion, no matter that "Alpha" is not a proper name but just a letter in the alphabet. This is equivalent to saying the United States Army has infiltrated the German Bundeswehr, because both militaries have a regiment that uses the number "1" in its name.

As to why they work well together with the Ultramarines, maaaybe that might just be because the Ultras have a good reputation when it comes to working with people?

The use of the Hyrda iconography and the fact that they're Alphic, how could somebody write this and not see the connection?

Unfortunate coincidence? It happens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

And they have and do go further, but not to the point of infiltrating all of the Stormtrooper regiments or the High Lords.

Ah, but that contradicts your theory of there being a high ranking operative in the Schola - surely if they have that much power, they would try to extend their influence further over the other regiments?

Why does it contradict the theory of there being a high ranking operative? They only infiltrate the things they need to achieve goals, and they don't need to spend resources infiltrating other regiments, their only goal here is to get in with the Ultramarines and they're achieving it.

But that's just thinking small, isn't it? They are in position to achieve so much more than undermining a single chapter.

Example: If there was an SM chapter called the Ultra Guillimans you'd say they were related to the Ultramarines right? No, they're nothing to do with the Ultramarines. They just use the same iconography and their name has so much to do with them, gawd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The AL don't have the resources to infiltrate the High Lords, most of the AL split into thousands of cells after they lost Alpharius..

It's really simple. The Alpha Legion have become really bad at infiltrating and couldn't think of a better name than "Alphic Hydras". This pathetic attempt was spotted almost instantly, but the Ultramarines thought they would pretend not to notice. It is all an elaborate sting operation, trying to get the higher levels of the scheme to reveal themselves.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Example: If there was an SM chapter called the Ultra Guillimans you'd say they were related to the Ultramarines right? No, they're nothing to do with the Ultramarines. They just use the same iconography and their name has so much to do with them, gawd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The AL don't have the resources to infiltrate the High Lords, most of the AL split into thousands of cells after they lost Alpharius..

But they do have the resources to infiltrate the Schola and form a whole military regiment? I'm sorry, it still doesn't add up.
If the Alpha Legion is that fractured, how did they get organized to start such a monumental operation?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trickstick wrote:
It's really simple. The Alpha Legion have become really bad at infiltrating and couldn't think of a better name than "Alphic Hydras". This pathetic attempt was spotted almost instantly, but the Ultramarines thought they would pretend not to notice. It is all an elaborate sting operation, trying to get the higher levels of the scheme to reveal themselves.

Just as planned?

The way this theory is going, that's probably likely

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Lynata wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).

Just for the records - was this in a Codex or some novel?

Wyzilla wrote:Not only does "Alphic Hydras" scream Alpha Legion [...]

Again, why? Because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Look at the other formations on that list: Alphic, Beltic, Deltan, Epsilic, ... the connection between these names should be evident, and the Alphic Hydras (as well as the Alphic Lions) have their name because that's the first letter in the alphabet, obviously following a designation pattern established by the parent organisation.

Unless you want to suggest that the Alpha Legion has somehow infiltrated the entire Scions program and is responsible for establishing this naming pattern, because no-one else in the entire galaxy is allowed to have "Alpha" in their name without it having to do with the Alpha Legion, no matter that "Alpha" is not a proper name but just a letter in the alphabet. This is equivalent to saying the United States Army has infiltrated the German Bundeswehr, because both militaries have a regiment that uses the number "1" in its name.

As to why they work well together with the Ultramarines, maaaybe that might just be because the Ultras have a good reputation when it comes to working with people?

The use of the Hyrda iconography and the fact that they're Alphic, how could somebody write this and not see the connection?

Unfortunate coincidence? It happens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

And they have and do go further, but not to the point of infiltrating all of the Stormtrooper regiments or the High Lords.

Ah, but that contradicts your theory of there being a high ranking operative in the Schola - surely if they have that much power, they would try to extend their influence further over the other regiments?

Why does it contradict the theory of there being a high ranking operative? They only infiltrate the things they need to achieve goals, and they don't need to spend resources infiltrating other regiments, their only goal here is to get in with the Ultramarines and they're achieving it.

But that's just thinking small, isn't it? They are in position to achieve so much more than undermining a single chapter.

The Alpha Legion and Ultramarines hate each other, it goes back all the way to the rivalry between Alpharius and Guilliman and their differing stances on how war is to be conducted, with the Ultramarines preferring the direct path while the Alpha Legion prefers subterfuge and Xanatos Gambits. This finally boiled over when the Ultramarines attacked the Alpha Legion and possibly killed either Alpharius or Omegon. This would be a case of either a cell or maybe even the entire legion wanting to exact final revenge on the Ultramarines, and tainting their recruitment pool is a great way to start.

BrotherOfBone wrote:The use of the Hyrda iconography and the fact that they're Alphic, how could somebody write this and not see the connection?

And how would this tie in to all those other regiments, whose name is also a connection of a Greek letter + animal?

1. The Alpha Legion would have to control this entire branch of the Imperial Guard in order to influence the naming convention
2. The scale of infiltration necessary to influence both the name and the unit itself and the many sources of recruitment (the Ecclesiarchy Scholae) shipping orphans to the military seems way out of line
3. As someone else has already pointed out, it would be a bit silly to risk discovery by painting your infiltration unit with a name that is associated with the renegade military unit you are working for

And last but not least - what's the long term goal here? Because I do not think that the Tempest Scions have been around for only a few years. They've probably been retconned to have existed for several millennia, including the many "Alphic" units.

The Alpha Legion and Ultramarines hate each other, it goes back all the way to the rivalry between Alpharius and Guilliman and their differing stances on how war is to be conducted, with the Ultramarines preferring the direct path while the Alpha Legion prefers subterfuge and Xanatos Gambits. This finally boiled over when the Ultramarines attacked the Alpha Legion and possibly killed either Alpharius or Omegon. This would be a case of either a cell or maybe even the entire legion wanting to exact final revenge on the Ultramarines, and tainting their recruitment pool is a great way to start.

Huh, well we have a motive at least. It's a silly motive and a squandering of their resources if they did, in fact, undergo such a convoluted plot, but it's a plausible motive.
Of course, this is undermined by the fact they decided to name their pawns after the Ultramarine's worse enemy.

It would be like infiltrating the Soviet Union with a spy who has the alias of "Ronald Reagan."

The reason the AL can do something on that scale is because the individual cells spend a number of decades ensuring their plans come to fruition. And, we know how little things are checked in the Schola, it only takes one person to punch in some keys to start recruiting from such and such world, and then call them the Alphic Hydras.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:

BrotherOfBone wrote:The use of the Hyrda iconography and the fact that they're Alphic, how could somebody write this and not see the connection?

And how would this tie in to all those other regiments, whose name is also a connection of a Greek letter + animal?

1. The Alpha Legion would have to control this entire branch of the Imperial Guard in order to influence the naming convention
2. The scale of infiltration necessary to influence both the name and the unit itself and the many sources of recruitment (the Ecclesiarchy Scholae) shipping orphans to the military seems way out of line
3. As someone else has already pointed out, it would be a bit silly to risk discovery by painting your infiltration unit with a name that is associated with the renegade military unit you are working for

And last but not least - what's the long term goal here? Because I do not think that the Tempest Scions have been around for only a few years. They've probably been retconned to have existed for several millennia, including the many "Alphic" units.

The long term goal is to infiltrate the Ultramarines, something they couldn't really control otherwise.

Just pointing out the Alpha Legion has destroyed 2 Space Marine Chapters this way. Also while some members have fallen to Chaos, the original intention of the Alpha legion was to have Horus win and then this would eventually lead to the destruction of the human race and the elimination of Chaos. They're pretty evil.

BrotherOfBone wrote:And, we know how little things are checked in the Schola, it only takes one person to punch in some keys to start recruiting from such and such world, and then call them the Alphic Hydras.

Unless they've invalidate that piece of Codex fluff, the Scholae Progenium are quite thorough in their checks. The name of a military formation also gets decided at a higher level than the unit itself. And it would not recruit from a single Schola but multple.

That's some conspiracy theory!

BrotherOfBone wrote:The long term goal is to infiltrate the Ultramarines, something they couldn't really control otherwise.

So they've been doing this for ... how many millennia now? And to what effect? Other than, y'know, helping the Ultras win their wars.

Best plan ever. Destroy a chapter by keeping them alive.
I see no logical inconsistencies here.

 Lynata wrote:

BrotherOfBone wrote:And, we know how little things are checked in the Schola, it only takes one person to punch in some keys to start recruiting from such and such world, and then call them the Alphic Hydras.

Unless they've invalidate that piece of Codex fluff, the Scholae Progenium are quite thorough in their checks. The name of a military formation also gets decided at a higher level than the unit itself. And it would not recruit from a single Schola but multple.

That's some conspiracy theory!

BrotherOfBone wrote:The long term goal is to infiltrate the Ultramarines, something they couldn't really control otherwise.

So they've been doing this for ... how many millennia now? And to what effect? Other than, y'know, helping the Ultras win their wars.

To gain their trust, and they've been helping them against Orks and Eldar, they're not exactly slaughtering Alpha Legionnaires.

Hollismason wrote:
Just pointing out the Alpha Legion has destroyed 2 Space Marine Chapters this way.

Not exactly. Those two examples were masterful strokes of genius that involved directly tainting the recruitment pool of the Chapter via psyker indoctrination and turning everyone from there on to a sleeper agent. Not only did it work fiendishly well, it was nigh undetectable and nobody could see it coming. This however seems a lot more sloppy than the guy who executed that plan, so either that Alpha Legion Agent/Lord has gone nuts or somebody else tried to copy him and is doing a poor job at it. Sure they infiltrated, but I don't think it'll take long for an inquisitor to put two and two together and get right to purging. Because you've got to either be a moron or the Riddler from Batman to decide that leaving a glaringly obvious clue in the face of the guy you're trying to dupe is a good idea.

Yeah, that's why I don't think it's an AL plot;
Because it's so unbelievably stupid if it were, and it involves a lot of speculation, conditions and "what if" scenarios.

You'd have to be Tzeentch to pull something like this off.
Wait...maybe it was the demon parrot all along...